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AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Issue: Has Corporate Fraud occurred when a Board does all of the following?

(1) requires proxies for the Annual Election to be notarized and emphatically publicizes to members the same for two months before and right through the day of the Annual Election;

(2) about one month before the Annual Election, and in Executive Session with the HOA attorney present, votes to revoke the proxy notarization requirement;

(3) tells no Member of the decision to revoke the proxy notarization requirement;

(4) ten days before the Annual Election, directs the CPA-Election Auditor to accept all proxies regardless of notarization;

(5) at the Annual Election, simultaneous to the Annual Meeting, several members question the notarization requirement. A motion is made to disallow it in the future. The Board President conducts a vote by the members, who overwhelmingly vote to recommend to that the Board not require notarization in the future. The Board President says nothing about the advice of the HOA Counsel and the previous month's Exec Session to revoke the requirement.

(6) a month after the Annual Election, announces to all that all proxies were accepted regardless of whether they were notarized. No explanation of why the Board did this is given.

Additional:
(a) So far, about 5% of all Members say they would have submitted a proxy were it not for the notarization requirement. These Members could not attend in person and so voted neither in person or by proxy.

Upon a group of Members filing a complaint with the HOA about the notarization requirement--
(b) the HOA Attorney revealed that a vote to revoke the proxy notarization requirement had taken place before the Annual Election.

(c) the HOA Attorney said the Board acted in good faith because it believed notarization would help ensure the integrity of the election. Then when the Board voted not to require notarization (on advice of counsel), the Board was still acting in good faith because it recognized the burden of notarization and that this burden could be found unlawful under state statute in a court of law.

(d) the HOA attorney has yet to respond to the Board not telling Members that the Board had revoked the notarization requirement.

(e) the HOA's gov docs have some limited provision for arbitration, with the prevailing party paying all the costs.

Subsequently,
(f) the Complainants asked for the Minutes of the meeting documenting the vote to revoke the notarization requirement, pursuant to the Bylaws and state law regarding record viewing.

(g) the HOA attorney stated that a redacted version of these Exec Session Minutes would be available for viewing when they were available for viewing (sic).

(h) two weeks later, the Board informed the Complainants that the redacted Exec Session Minutes were now available for viewing upon signing a non-disclosure form.

(i) the non-disclosure form requires that the signer agree (i-1) not to use the record for either harassment or disparagement; (i-2) to use the record only for HOA business; and (i-3) not to disclose the record without permission of the HOA; (i-4) to indemnify, release and hold harmless the HOA and the Board from any liability or claims arising from unauthorized use of the record.

Some of the Members want to take the HOA to court over this, trying to get the HOA President to pay all the fees of the HOA Attorney in addressing the in-house complaint. I read an exchange here about piercing the corporate veil. The latter refers to taking away corporate protections from a board member. Other improprieties with elections are alleged. I think they have much merit. Where the Board stands to profit by keeping a stranglehold on the election procedures: The Board is a huge fan of the HOA Manager. But many Members think the HOA Manager is incompetent for doing xyz. As long as the Board maintains a stranglehold on the election process, it will be able to keep this HOA Manager employed. I do not want to be a party to a lawsuit, as necessary as this suit may be, because I do not want to be in personal conflict for month and months. Also I know the HOA attorney will enjoy making a lot of money from this. But in the greater scheme, I think the benefit will outweigh the cost to members, and it could pave the way to a release of the stranglehold of the Board on the HOA in general, as it violates the gov docs, municipal law and state law.

First, thumbs up or down: Do you think this is corporate fraud that would pierce the corporate veil protecting the Board? Would it bother you as a HOA Member?

Second, is there a better way to handle this? Is arbitration better than going to court? Those with experience with arbitration: How do you predict arbitration would go?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Augustin,

As your login doesn't show your State, what state is your HOA in?

As for 1-6, I do not think it would be considered fraud. More likely it would simply be considered bad judgement.

As for a) what someone tells you and what they actually would have done can be different.
I am of the expectation that you attended the meeting and voted. Therefore, you don't have the standing someone who would have submitted a proxy does to challenge the process. In my opinion, that is where the challenge should come from. Once I know the State you are in, I can comment if the reason to repeal the notary requirement would be based on statute or not.

As for b-c, I hope at least some of those in the group are those who didn't attend the meeting or submit a proxy (standing issue again).
Why the Board failed to notify the membership of it's vote is something the attorney probably can't answer. However, a court may consider it another bad judgement call.

As for f-i, sounds like the Board is scared. I personally wouldn't sign such a disclosure agreement. Instead, I would challenge said disclosure requirement with the Ombudsman or the courts. At the very least, I would spend $300 to have an attorney write a letter requesting said minutes without the disclosure requirement and to cite the statutes that permit said copy of minutes.

Again, I do not think that fraud was committed. I do think it was poor judgement.

As for your second question, how many are in the group that didn't vote but would have submitted a proxy had the notarized requirement not been there and are those numbers enough to change the outcome of the election?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Hi Tim, I do not want to post my state at present. I have scoured and know the statutes that apply in my state pretty well. There is no statute either requiring notarization of proxies or disallowing them. There is a statute stating that the right to vote may not be limited except to the extent the Bylaws permit. My HOA's Bylaws prescribe the form of the proxy and how it is to be submitted. The Bylaws have no notarization requirement. The situation is similar to that described in http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ny-supreme-court/1180683.html . My HOA is not in New York, but there is no other controlling law on the point. Even my HOA's attorney came up with only the Brodsky case. He said (a) the situation would be one of first impression in my state (I scoured and, while only a layperson, found the same); and (b) based on other authorities, expected that the right decision was to err in the favor of liberties. Hence the HOA attorney recommended that the board not require notarization.

Regarding a), the complainants have written testimony from several folks (some of whom are part of the group of complainants) that the reason they did not vote is because of the burden of having to find a notary public.

Regarding b) and c), yes, several in the group who submitted the complaint did not attend the meeting or did not submit a proxy because of the burden.

Regarding f) through i), thank you for sharing your opinion. I was feeling like this nondisclosure agreement was not enforceable. I am not going to sign it unless I have an attorney write a letter of demand.

It seems unlikely the outcome of the election would have changed. Which of course is an argument not to push any of this. Specifically: First, it is possible that there would not have been a quorum had the Board not secretly accepted proxies that were not notarized. When a quorum is not achieved, my HOA's Bylaws are clear about how to postpone the election and re-run it. Given what I went through with unlawful suspension of voting rights, others and I may have nominated someone from the floor at the second attempt to run the election. Still, at the original election, there were three board slots open, and only three were running. Hence I tend to think the outcome was not likely to change. At present, 4.5 months after the election, a Member may see the vote breakdown unit-by-unit (with each unit's vote weighted per its floor space) if the member agrees to go to the CPA-Election Auditor's office and pay him for his time. In the past this breakdown was included in the Minutes of the AMOM. But no more.

I appreciate getting your objective opinions on this.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Augustin,

You didn't answer the most important question, are there enough confirmed (in person or by affidavit) individuals to have changed the outcome of the vote?

If not, it may be best to spend your time, energy and money on something else as it may not sway a court to mandate a new election.
Even if a court does order a new election (expecting that this is what you are looking for) the numbers show that it will likely not change anything.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Hi Time, in my response to you I was trying to say that none of us can tell if the outcome would change unless we pay a lot of money to the CPA Election Auditor to see the vote breakdown. Without the non-notarized proxies being counted, the HOA may not have had a quorum and would have had to postpone the election.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
You should be able to demand access to the records without signing away any rights. IMO, you would win that challenge in court.

On everything else, I think you've got a snowball's chance in hell.

Better to focus on next election, and preventing the same thing from happening again. You can gain a lot of respect by doing that.

Re your question on whether what they're doing would upset me - it depends.

- If I agree with you, then yes.
- But if I think you're the problem, then no.
It all depends if I see you as a hero or a demon.

This whole issue appears to have been highly politicized.

That's why it's so important to secure your base. Doesn't matter how right you are if you don't have the votes.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
NpS is, imo, Augustin, exactly correct in every possible way that we can think about this.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 06/05/2016 8:37 PM
NpS is, imo, Augustin, exactly correct in every possible way that we can think about this.

Augustin may be right in everything he's saying.

But that's not the questions he was asking.

Corporate fraud? - Don't think that one will fly.

Piercing corporate veil? - Even less chance IMO.

Forcing Prez to pay legal fees? Uh uh.

As plaintiff, burden is on Augustin to prove - suspicions aren't good enough - and corporate fraud and piercing corporate veil are very fact intensive.

Lawyer's explanations likely to sound "reasonable" to a judge.

Could Augustin win on a claim to get a new election. Possibly. But that's not the question he was asking.

Also, to be successful on that new election, he's going to need notarized signatures at minimum - Back to square one.

Again - It's not about being right. It's about having enough people behind you IMO. And if Augustin had the numbers, he could call a special election and throw the bums out.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
WayneR1 (Virginia)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Glad this topic came up. As stated in another thread I am working on revising our by-laws.

Consideration was given to including a notarization requirement with the proxy for
election of Directors.

Now I will have to re-think that requirement.

Wayne
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Hi Wayne, from my reading, requiring notarization becomes a problem only if the Bylaws (1) specify a certain format that does not mention notarization; and (2) a Board subsequently and without amending suddenly imposes a notarization requirement. If your HOA legally amends its Bylaws to require notarization of proxies, then I do not see a problem.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Gave Augustin's situation a bit more thought.

I think he could succeed in a claim to redo the election.

He won't need affidavit from homeowners who didn't vote.

IMO, he has standing all by himself because he was affected by the outcome of a closed election that improperly excluded some. Better of course if he has a friend who joins the suit that didn't vote. But only needs one.

Not sure that's the path that Augustin wants to pursue.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WayneR1 on 06/05/2016 11:29 PM
Glad this topic came up. As stated in another thread I am working on revising our by-laws.

Consideration was given to including a notarization requirement with the proxy for
election of Directors.

Now I will have to re-think that requirement.

Wayne

Wayne,

If you included such a requirement, it would likely be in violation of Virginia Nonstock Corporation Act (applicable to VA HOAs since they are typically incorporated under this statute). Specifically VA § 13.1-847 which states:

"An appointment of a proxy is effective when a signed appointment form or an electronic transmission of the appointment is received by the inspectors of election or the officer or agent of the corporation authorized to tabulate votes."

and VA § 13.1-847.1 which states:

In determining the validity of proxies and ballots and in counting the votes, the inspectors shall be limited to an examination of the proxies, any envelopes submitted with those proxies, any information provided in accordance with subsection B of § 13.1-847, ballots, and the regular books and records of the corporation

Since you are in Virginia, if you are rewriting the Bylaws, the Virginia Nonstock Corporation Act should be you guide. This is because Bylaws establish how the Corporation/Association is to run and when an Association is incorporated (which is typical for Associations).
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 06/05/2016 11:14 AM

(1)- Has Corporate Fraud occurred when a Board does all of the following . . .?
. . . (c) the HOA Attorney said the Board acted in good faith because it believed notarization would help ensure the integrity of the election. Then when the Board voted not to require notarization (on advice of counsel), the Board was still acting in good faith because it recognized the burden of notarization and that this burden could be found unlawful under state statute in a court of law. . . .

Some of the Members want to take the HOA to court over this . . Other improprieties with elections are alleged. I think they have much merit.

First, thumbs up or down: Do you think this is corporate fraud that would pierce the corporate veil protecting the Board? Would it bother you as a HOA Member?

Second, is there a better way to handle this ? Is arbitration better than going to court? Those with experience with arbitration: How do you predict arbitration would go ?

Augustin D :
1 - inconsistent proxy Notarization hurdle : was it fraud, honest error or 'liberalizing access' ? Sincere or not, a credible sounding justification in (c) above. But to appeal & to whom ? Other than non-litigation appeal venues, I wonder how many outcomes did you find in your state, where a HOA/condo election or Requisition meeting was even adjudicated ?

In 2013 a civil court in my jurisdiction actually heard & rejected an appeal by Requisition-unseated Directors against certain outcome-changing proxies being uphelp/ validated. The disputed validations occurred after condo Requisitioners overthrew the appellant Board's chair. Both the Requisitioner's chair ( & subsequently the civil judge ) reviewed proxy by proxy the proxy documents which cited the particular candidates by name ( instead of dual envelope method ).

Not only was the corporate veil pierced but the lawful lack of dual envelope allowed the outcome-changing itself to be confirmed judicially. Management had claimed the critical proxies were disqualifiable for alleged arrears, such disqualifiation actually overturned by the Requisitioners' chair and on this 2013 judicial appeal. Unusual and appealed by unseated Directors, not "what if".

2 - Predicting arbitral outcomes & costs : Whether outcomes are as predictable/unpredictable as conventional litigation, some have found they can be a trip into the Twilight Zone of illegality, as recently was reminded to me after a 3 year property assessment appeal.

Wouldn't a less formal arbitration be likely cheaper than conventional litigation ? One arbitrated condo type outcome ( over minor plumbing & seagull feeding ) shockingly cost $ 198 K in another jurisdiction here several years ago ! One residential noise ADR actually hit $75 K in 2008 - there were noise studies - even before the disturber failed to get the arbitrator's award overturned.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 06/06/2016 5:08 AM
Gave Augustin's situation a bit more thought.

I think he could succeed in a claim to redo the election.

He won't need affidavit from homeowners who didn't vote.

IMO, he has standing all by himself because he was affected by the outcome of a closed election that improperly excluded some. Better of course if he has a friend who joins the suit that didn't vote. But only needs one.

Not sure that's the path that Augustin wants to pursue.

The several complainants here at my HOA do not wish to seek another election. For one thing, I think it would be September or October at the earliest by the time this got through arbitration and the courts.

But hypothetically speaking, I want to speak a little more about my understanding of standing here. Perhaps it might be useful to others. About a year ago a WalterM3 began a thread at http://www.hoatalk.com/Search/ForumSearch/tabid/87/forumid/1/tpage/1/view/Topic/postid/194675/Default.aspx. The latter thread spoke of his efforts in small claims court over a few months. Walter attempted to sue four officers (not directors per se) of the HOA, and in a derivative action. He was suing for a court order for the four defendants to re-pay the HOA for fees that Walter alleged the HOA should not have had to pay.

On July 21, 2015, Walter kindly posted an update as follows:
"The HOA attorney told the judge that I had no fiduciary relationship to the individual Board members and that was it. The judge told me I would have to pierce the corporate veil. [new paragraph] [The judge] found for the HOA because they had a lawyer. That was the bottom line."

I have seen parts of HOA member lawsuits thrown out for failing to meet the bar for a derivative action. I think Walter's claim would have failed on this count as well, as many of you pointed out in the thread. It's not clear to me whether the judge was saying as much. The judge might have been implying 'This does not qualify as a derivative action. Can it qualify as what is known as a direct action? Not unless the officers have a [direct] fiduciary relationship to Walter. They do not. Their relationship is to the HOA as a corporation with contractual governing documents.'

From my reading, voting rights are a different matter. When I looked at how court claims of voter-shareholder oppression are treated, I found that these are not derivative actions. This is because voter-shareholder oppression does not hurt the corporation's operations per se. In short, for many months now my understanding is that a claim of denial of voting rights is a direct, not derivative, action. As a direct action, it has a better chance of success.

I am not sure I would have standing under NpS's theory. He seems to be saying that, while I was able to vote (finally), others were not, so this affects me. It does affect me but pretty indirectly I do not think I could file pro se and have standing. I think it's more likely I could argue pro se that my voting rights were limited; I had to notarize. This was a burden I did not want to deal with. I allege this violated state law at ##-###-##. So, your honor, please order the defendants not to require this in the future, and make them pay the cost of the attorney in resolving this.' I'd lose the attorneys' costs issue, but I'd get an order.

If several of us filed pro se, with some of us not having voted due to the proxy notarization requirement, then I feel confident that this would be a successful direct action. But still no attorneys' fees awarded et cetera to my group of plaintiffs.

From more recent reading, a showing of fraud can pierce the corporate veil and result in directors being denied indemnification. I am not going to pursue this fraud though, because first, and as I noted in my initial post, I do not want to be a party to a lawsuit, and second, you all have persuaded me that the HOA attorney's arguments put this in the small potatoes category of "bad judgment" in an election whose outcome is unlikely to be different were another election held within a month or so of the January election.

Did Walter's small claims action make a difference, even though Walter lost? Maybe.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Tim, interesting argument. To me the key phrase is "the inspectors shall be limited to an examination of the proxies...." It seems to me Wayne's HOA Bylaws could be legally amended to require notarization, and that said notarization reasonably could fall within the limits of the inspectors "examination of the proxies." After all, the VA statute does not specify what the for what exactly the inspectors are supposed to be examining.

The Brodsky case refers to another case, West v. the Board of Seward Park Housing Corporation. In the West case, the Bylaws made no mention of proxies whatsoever. Because of this, in West and pursuant to NY law, requiring notarization of proxies was permitted.

It's a good question for a Virginia attorney.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BobD4 on 06/06/2016 8:08 AM
Posted By AugustinD on 06/05/2016 11:14 AM
Augustin D :
1 - inconsistent proxy Notarization hurdle : was it fraud, honest error or 'liberalizing access' ? Sincere or not, a credible sounding justification in (c) above. But to appeal & to whom ? Other than non-litigation appeal venues, I wonder how many outcomes did you find in your state, where a HOA/condo election or Requisition meeting was even adjudicated ?

In 2013 a civil court in my jurisdiction actually heard & rejected an appeal by Requisition-unseated Directors against certain outcome-changing proxies being uphelp/ validated. The disputed validations occurred after condo Requisitioners overthrew the appellant Board's chair. Both the Requisitioner's chair ( & subsequently the civil judge ) reviewed proxy by proxy the proxy documents which cited the particular candidates by name ( instead of dual envelope method ).

Not only was the corporate veil pierced but the lawful lack of dual envelope allowed the outcome-changing itself to be confirmed judicially. Management had claimed the critical proxies were disqualifiable for alleged arrears, such disqualifiation actually overturned by the Requisitioners' chair and on this 2013 judicial appeal. Unusual and appealed by unseated Directors, not "what if".

2 - Predicting arbitral outcomes & costs : Whether outcomes are as predictable/unpredictable as conventional litigation, some have found they can be a trip into the Twilight Zone of illegality, as recently was reminded to me after a 3 year property assessment appeal.

Wouldn't a less formal arbitration be likely cheaper than conventional litigation ? One arbitrated condo type outcome ( over minor plumbing & seagull feeding ) shockingly cost $ 198 K in another jurisdiction here several years ago ! One residential noise ADR actually hit $75 K in 2008 - there were noise studies - even before the disturber failed to get the arbitrator's award overturned.

Bob, at the state appeals court and higher level where I live, I found zero cases where a HOA election was disputed. There's a tiny bit on corporate elections. Most relevant to me is that my state has several cases involving interpreting HOA gov docs. These shed some light on how my HOA's gov docs would be interpreted regarding voting.

Thank you for sharing the case where you are. As I am sure many here know, the out-of-state cases are not controlling but are often referred to in the motion practice of a lawsuit. They can be good guides, in my opinion, about how to proceed, if one wants to proceed.

Thank you also for sharing your arbitration experience. This is discouraging, though maybe not completely surprising. I also tend to agree that elevating this to either an arbitrator or the courts could result in enormous costs to the HOA. I am not sure this would yield a good return on investment and the better path is to keep things in-house for now. (I admit I am vacillating some on the point.)
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 06/06/2016 9:23 AM
Tim, interesting argument. To me the key phrase is "the inspectors shall be limited to an examination of the proxies...."

You need to read the whole statute in context.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Augustin

I think your situation is quite different than Walter's. If I remember correctly, he went after the board members without naming the association as a party. There's no telling what might have happened if he had named the association. Also, hard to tell what was going on because Walter shared his impressions of what supposedly was said, but I don't think he ever provided the actual wording of any of the documents in his lawsuit.

IMO, your situation is more complex than you state. There was a failure by your board to notify anyone that un-notarized proxies would be accepted. I think that you personally have an argument that if you had known about the policy change you would have gone door to door notifying people that the change from notarized-only to not-required took place. You could have also collected proxies on your door to door travels.

In other words, not only did the notarization requirement discourage voting, but the failure to inform that the requirement was lifted impeded your ability to campaign. I think a judge would listen to you on that.

Don't see any reason why you can't proceed pro se.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 06/06/2016 9:44 AM
Augustin

I think your situation is quite different than Walter's. If I remember correctly, he went after the board members without naming the association as a party. There's no telling what might have happened if he had named the association. Also, hard to tell what was going on because Walter shared his impressions of what supposedly was said, but I don't think he ever provided the actual wording of any of the documents in his lawsuit.

IMO, your situation is more complex than you state. There was a failure by your board to notify anyone that un-notarized proxies would be accepted. I think that you personally have an argument that if you had known about the policy change you would have gone door to door notifying people that the change from notarized-only to not-required took place. You could have also collected proxies on your door to door travels.

In other words, not only did the notarization requirement discourage voting, but the failure to inform that the requirement was lifted impeded your ability to campaign. I think a judge would listen to you on that.

Don't see any reason why you can't proceed pro se.

NpS, I think your argument about members' (my) ability to campaign is a good one. But remaining is that, with only three candidates running; only three slots open on the board, and no nominations from the floor at the meeting itself, the judge would say, 'Come on. Do you know how important this court's time is? Here is an order never to require notarization. Defendants, appeal at your own risk. We are done here.' The judge would be right.

I raised Walter's situation to keep the notion of derivative action vs. direct action on the table here. I think this notion is relevant to this discussion. I am not sure Walter could name the Association. I understand the legal theory of a derivative action is that the corporation sues its own directors for harm the directors did to the corporation. A number of shareholder-members of the corporation nominally represent the corporation in a derivative action. The number that is required varies from state to state.

If Walter had named the Association as a defendant, I am not sure this would make any difference. The HOA, through its board, has a fiduciary duty to Walter not to waste money on depositions (so Walter claimed); the HOA should spend carefully? Yes but what's "carefully" is pretty subjective. I think Walter was right to raise his concern, but he did need an attorney here to ensure procedural rules were followed; phrasing was correct; and so on. I think an attorney might have expanded his complaint and might have been able to prevail.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 06/06/2016 10:07 AM
But remaining is that, with only three candidates running; only three slots open on the board, and no nominations from the floor at the meeting itself, the judge would say, 'Come on. Do you know how important this court's time is? Here is an order never to require notarization. Defendants, appeal at your own risk. We are done here.' The judge would be right.

3 candidates. 3 seats. No real injury. Agree with your assessment.

Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 06/06/2016 10:07 AM
I raised Walter's situation to keep the notion of derivative action vs. direct action on the table here. I think this notion is relevant to this discussion. I am not sure Walter could name the Association. I understand the legal theory of a derivative action is that the corporation sues its own directors for harm the directors did to the corporation. A number of shareholder-members of the corporation nominally represent the corporation in a derivative action. The number that is required varies from state to state.

Any shareholder would have standing to initiate a derivative action. Suit would be against Assn for not taking action against directors. But instead, Walter didn't sue the assn. He went after the directors himself, which the judge told him he lacked standing to do.

Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 06/06/2016 10:07 AM
If Walter had named the Association as a defendant, I am not sure this would make any difference. The HOA, through its board, has a fiduciary duty to Walter not to waste money on depositions (so Walter claimed); the HOA should spend carefully? Yes but what's "carefully" is pretty subjective. I think Walter was right to raise his concern, but he did need an attorney here to ensure procedural rules were followed; phrasing was correct; and so on. I think an attorney might have expanded his complaint and might have been able to prevail.

Disagree re naming assn. Judge wouldn't have dismissed the case for the reason stated. Walter never told us that he re-filed - IMO, all he had to do if that was the only reason for the dismissal.

Board has a fiduciary responsibility yes. Board is protected by the Business Judgment Rule - A judge will defer to the decision of the board - not rely on the allegations of an unhappy shareholder - Provided of course that board provides a reasonable explanation. Reasonable doesn't mean best. It only means reasonable based on what the board knew at the time.

Think that things can be done pro se. But that's a risk you must take. Cheaper without. Better protected with.

If I remember correctly, Walter wasn't willing to spend more than $50 on a lawyer.

Also, the HOA should have D&O insurance. As soon as a complaint is filed against HOA, HOA will turn it over to their insurer. If no claim against HOA, no reason to notify insurance company. So ramifications of not suing HOA could be more significant than you think.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
NpS, I think the following is an academic exercise that may be helpful to some wondering about suing one's HOA.

As quoted in WalterM3's thread, to have standing to sue a nonprofit corporation in a derivative action in Georgia minimally requires the following:

~~~
Georgia Code
PART 4 - DERIVATIVE PROCEEDINGS
§ 14-3-741 - Standing

A derivative proceeding may be brought either by any director or by any member or members having 5 percent or more of the voting power or by 50 members, whichever is less. A director or members may not commence or maintain a derivative proceeding unless the director or members:

(1) Was a director or were members of the corporation at the time of the act or omission complained of (or became a member through transfer by operation of law from one who was a member at that time); or is a director or are members at the time the proceeding is commenced; and

(2) Fairly and adequately represents the interests of the corporation in enforcing the right of the corporation.
~~~

I do not think Walter had standing to sue in a derivative action. Where I live, the law requires a plaintiff suing in a derivative action to use an attorney. For someone pro se, this is another bar to suing in a derivative action.

Regarding better protection with an attorney: Yes in Walter's case. But the New York Times had an article last week that reported a study showing that pro se individuals using a new electronic forms service resolved certain categories of cases in court more quickly and with better results than those who hired an attorney. Just saying. God knows we do not need a bunch of amateurs suing each other. OTOH, some actions are so boiler plate that we should indeed 'kill all the attorneys.'

Generally for HOA lawsuits, I think an attorney is best.

I am not so sure about how not naming the corporation = no corporate insurance available. My understanding is that the agents of the corporation are generally covered under the corporation's insurance policy for much of what they do.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 06/06/2016 11:09 AM
I am not so sure about how not naming the corporation = no corporate insurance available. My understanding is that the agents of the corporation are generally covered under the corporation's insurance policy for much of what they do.


I could be wrong, but here are my impressions:

1. Lawsuit by HOA against a Director = no HOA insurance coverage. HOA insurance is defensive only. Insurance company is not going to represent people on opposite sides of the dispute.

2. Lawsuit by member against HOA = HOA insurance coverage.

3. Lawsuit by member against HOA and a Director = HOA coverage - but only to the extent that claims against Director acting in Director capacity. Director may have personal liability for his actions (depends on the specific language in the policy). If Director maliciously runs over my kid's tricycle because I spoke out at a meeting, don't think D&O would cover that behavior.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS . . In other words, not only did the notarization requirement discourage voting, but the failure to inform that the requirement was lifted impeded your ability to campaign. I think a judge would listen to you on that. Don't see any reason why you can't proceed pro se.

AugustinD(NM)

1 - Whether the notarization/DE-notarization aspect is electoral fraud, stupid or 'liberalizing access', the bottom line is proxy seekers facing uneven hurdles at the doorstep. Could really be serious & deliberate unfairness.

2- I revisited both of WalterM3 GA's topics ( not easy, given the Search function ):

In Walter's more recent Quorum restoration topic; unscheduled death required a fill-in appointment a month later, which delay irked Walter ) http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/tpage/2/view/Topic/postid/205857/Default.aspx

In Walter's earlier Derivative Lawsuit topic
http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/194675/view/topic/tpage/1/Default.aspx

Walter earlier relates getting advice to "file in Magistrate's Court (Small Claims) an action, not against the Board, but against the corporate officers, for malfeasance." ( maybe not the worst idea, given what I did NOT see in the Georgia statutes as to property & civil rights/ consumer protections )

Walter : ". . I engaged one of those online lawyer services, and he confirmed I can sue in a "derivative action" on behalf of the HOA members to get a judgment not for me, but to force the Board members to repay money to the corporation for 1) using funds wrongly and 2) without getting a majority vote in writing as required by Georgia law, as detailed below :

. . . for harm done to it by the defendants. $1,140.00 of the Association funds . . . to have the Association attorney analyze and attend a deposition for a trial between two members of the Association. The deposition was pursuant to a suit between two HOA residents over a claim of defamation. It had nothing to with HOA affairs. )

He later recounts this was dismissed without prejudice.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
BobD4,I agree that there is much going on with my Board that suggests corruption. But to me, finding a motive for "deliberate unfairness" is difficult. On the one hand, one might argue that the Board was going to wait to see if there were last minute candidates, whose fate they wanted to control by adjusting the notarization rule, as needed and in secret, in their candidates' favor. But then on the other hand, why even announce to the members in February that all proxies were counted, regardless of whether they were notarized? To misguidedly placate the membership? On the third hand, tack on that in April, the Board passed a resolution declaring that, for the January 2017 election, no candidate for the Board may be designated a proxy. Why the Board keeps wanting to jeopardize the existence of a quorum is beyond me.

The complainants here, continuing to see other acts of corruption with regard to the infrastructure, are largely worried about the 2017 election. The complainants want to find ways to ensure its integrity.

For what it is worth, I have found that the best way to search hoatalk.com is to go to google.com; in the search window type in a key word and restrict the search to hoatalk.com. E.g. in the google search window, type:

walterm3 site:hoatalk.com

I went looking for discussions of pro se suits brought by members against their HOAs/Boards, here at hoatalk.com, and have yet to find a successful one. But I suppose this does not mean the pro se attempt did not cause change.

Perhaps I will attempt a survey of this site on the subject. It might help people in their decision-making.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD . . . For what it is worth, I have found that the best way to search hoatalk.com is to go to google.com; in the search window type in a key word and restrict the search to hoatalk.com. E.g. in the google search window, type: walterm3 site:hoatalk.com

I went looking for discussions of pro se suits brought by members against their HOAs/Boards, here at hoatalk.com, and have yet to find a successful one. But I suppose this does not mean the pro se attempt did not cause change. Perhaps I will attempt a survey of this site on the subject. It might help people in their decision-making.

AugustinD : 1- Thanks for excellent tip.

2- At least WalterM3's expressed view of his outcome ( his claim dismisssed with prejudice ) is successful. The interesting comments show many were skeptical.

If attorneys who themselves are condo/ HOA owners, suffer losses when suing their condo /corporations ( outside records denial) what should a SRL self represented litigant expect if facing a professional counsel ? Pro se a HOA owning lawyer here has lost 3 of 4 outings against his HOA Building Scheme and has now retained highprofile specialist appeal counsel. Another lawyer who achieved - on balance - a mostly successful outcome suing her condo corporation, retained litigation counsel for the whole 4 year process.

3- An law professor's study underway here of pro se /SRL (non condo/non HOA ) may suggest that congested courts are increasingly allowing pro se litigants to be thrashed summarily upfront. ( upfront motions to dismiss ). The results imply that judicial tolerance levels are dropping.
JamesG11 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
I have no idea what state you reside in and the state's laws will likely be controlling here, so the following comments are just observational and reflect my personal opinion, FWIW.

From the facts you shared, I suspect that the Board DID act in good faith in reversing its prior decision re: notarization of proxies on the advice of counsel.

Having said that, and given that the Board had "emphatically publicize[d] to members for two months before and right through the day of the Annual Election [that proxies would have to be notarized]," the fact that the Board: (a) had reversed itself, (b) failed to disclose that reversal to homeowners AND (c) falsely/negligently continued to proclaim that proxies would have to be notarized to be accepted, serves as adequate grounds to invalidate the election results IF it can be proven that enough homeowners would have voted in such a manner as to change the outcome. Proving this last element is going to be challenging, at best.

In any event, you really need to check with an experienced attorney in your state to obtain solid advice here, and ASAP. In Florida, all election disputes must be filed within 60 days from the date the results are announced (typically the evening of the annual meeting) or they are barred. Section 720.306(9)(a), Fla. Stat. ("Any challenge to the election process must be commenced within 60 days after the election results are announced.")

Good luck!
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Thank you for the input, JamesG11. None of the HOA members here want to challenge the election, for the reasons I give above. At this point some of the members want to file a complaint of member-shareholder-voter suppression on several counts. The most recent example is that the Board recently resolved that, at the 2017 annual election, no candidate for the board may be designated as the proxy for a member not in attendance. I am advising these members use an attorney (we have one we all know) and thinking that plaintiffs should agree to mediation the instant the word comes out of the judge's mouth, or get to mediation sooner if the attorney knows a way to do so. I do not want to be a party to the lawsuit (having had enough of same to last a lifetime, at my previous HOA). I think the best thing to do is to take a draft court complaint to the attorney and get his thoughts. He's a straight-shooter, in my experience and hates wasting people's time and money.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 06/05/2016 11:14 AM

(g) the HOA attorney stated that a redacted version of these Exec Session Minutes would be available for viewing when they were available for viewing (sic).

(h) two weeks later, the Board informed the Complainants that the redacted Exec Session Minutes were now available for viewing upon signing a non-disclosure form.

(i) the non-disclosure form requires that the signer agree (i-1) not to use the record for either harassment or disparagement; (i-2) to use the record only for HOA business; and (i-3) not to disclose the record without permission of the HOA; (i-4) to indemnify, release and hold harmless the HOA and the Board from any liability or claims arising from unauthorized use of the record.

Update regarding this non-disclosure form:

Another member and I did a lot of research on corporate non-disclosure agreements. It turns out non-disclosure agreements, in the course of requesting to view corporate records, are not unusual. Here is what the other member and I learned:

A board is required to permit member-shareholders to view and often (depending on state statute) even copy all records that are not attorney-client privileged records. This includes even "confidential records."

Confidential records may not be distributed nor publicized unless the member-shareholder proceeds to court and claims the records are needed to make his or her case. The HOA can always then motion to seal the court record.

Non-confidential corporate records are supposed to be available to any member-shareholder for viewing, copying and distribution as the member sees fit.

The HOA clarified that the nondisclosure agreement they presented to members was given only when the Board had deemed the record to be confidential. (Challenging what the Board deems is "confidential" is a different issue and would have to happen via letter of demand, then court or arbitration.)

I think the most instructive case law on this may be Disney v. Walt Disney Co (Delaware, 2004) http://caselaw.findlaw.com/de-court-of-chancery/1438736.html . My state had one prominent case on this as well.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD . . . A board is required to permit member-shareholders to view and often (depending on state statute) even copy all records that are not attorney-client privileged records. This includes even "confidential records." . . . (Challenging what the Board deems is "confidential" is a different issue and would have to happen via letter of demand, then court or arbitration.) I think the most instructive case law on this may be Disney v. Walt Disney Co (Delaware, 2004) http://caselaw.findlaw.com/de-court-of-chancery/1438736.html . My state had one prominent case on this as well.

AugustinD : Update is appreciated. One would have hoped that as opposed to genuine corporate warfare ( Disney v Disney Co) an Open Book would have been more helpful in a condo/HOA environment.

Wonder if legislators anticipated that property owner disclosuring rights could get sometimes trumped by 'disclosurable only to judicial process IF designated 'confidential'. Hadn't this started with Board/proxy sleight of hand issues/ Minutes issues ?

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BobD4 on 07/27/2016 1:22 PM

AugustinD : Update is appreciated. One would have hoped that as opposed to genuine corporate warfare ( Disney v Disney Co) an Open Book would have been more helpful in a condo/HOA environment.

Wonder if legislators anticipated that property owner disclosuring rights could get sometimes trumped by 'disclosurable only to judicial process IF designated 'confidential'. Hadn't this started with Board/proxy sleight of hand issues/ Minutes issues ?


BobD4, interesting that my neighbor here, you, and I all wondered whether the for-profit vs. a non-profit (with a very limited mission) distinction might deserve attention here. And yet, some of the Disney decision does seem applicable. Like the argument that board members having lengthy exchanges by email over //confidential// corporate matters, followed say by a duly recorded motion and vote, should not have to fear that the local paper will publish these email exchanges in some edited form, resulting in confusion and some harm to the corporation, if only in having to explain discussion, correct the article, et cetera on points that are far less germane than the motion and the motion's passing or failing.

As for legislators perhaps not intending nonprofit corporate law on record viewing to be applied thusly: I tend to think they knew what they were doing. I think the bigger problem is a board's inappropriate classification of a topic as confidential when it is not.

Yes, this started with my HOA"s board refusing to share its Exec Session minutes secretly revoking, by vote, an earlier, well-publicized board vote to require that proxies for the AMOM be notarized. (My neighbors and I are pretty sure these Minutes, documenting decisions from months ago, were thrown together. The law does allow this, with some conditions.) A formal complaint "won" members the rights to view the Minutes for this, but only if we signed this non-disclosure agreement. It's baloney, because no way could such a vote be deemed "confidential" unless the board was so naive that they thought having egg on their face (via backpedaling) would be more embarrassing than a bona fide cover-up. The HOA President is as strange as the strangest described here. But I got what I needed (without violating any laws or HOA rules) without viewing these secret Minutes, and duly and matter-of-factly put the info out to members.

BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
So digging can be very helpful. Good for you and your neighbour.

The confidentiality-stamping Board : "Your Honour this confidence was defensible because we could have looked like idiots . . . "

The Disney Company : "Your Honour this confidence was defensible because competitors could put our share value at risk or steal our commercial advantage . . . Would have had to liquidate the Parks. . . Mickey & Goofy sent to to peddle drugs . . . "
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BobD4 on 07/27/2016 2:12 PM
So digging can be very helpful. Good for you and your neighbour.

The confidentiality-stamping Board : "Your Honour this confidence was defensible because we could have looked like idiots . . . "

The Disney Company : "Your Honour this confidence was defensible because competitors could put our share value at risk or steal our commercial advantage . . . Would have had to liquidate the Parks. . . Mickey & Goofy sent to to peddle drugs . . . "

Thanks for the chuckle. Your proposed defense for my HOA's board is spot-on. ;) Seriously though, your point is a good one.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
". . .our Chief Counsel Mr Pinocchio would have been here to argue this to this court, your Honour.

But instead he has to begin treatment for an unusual medical condition . . . ."

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