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BenjaminD (North Carolina)
Posts: 20
Posted:
For some reason the search feature wasn't working so my apologies if this has been answered before. Either way...

We are 225 home community under declarant (the developer) control currently. The declarant made an addendum last year to be in control until 100% of the homes are sold. As of today they have two spec homes left to sell. Its a long story but we the homeowners want to take control over immediately. We would keep our management company in place but we don't want the declarant making any more decisions for us.

The motivator is that we currently have a debt with the declarant that they are currently having us payback a portion of. Its our understanding that once they are no longer in control that we do not have to pay back that debt.

The question I have is, once these two spec homes are sold when does the declarant have to turn control over to us? Do they have a legal obligation to do it within a certain time period? We, the homeowners, would have voting rights and we are wondering what we can do to take control.

Thanks in advance for the help!
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Since the declarant still has control, I imagine they could amend the CCRs to say they still have control for 5 years after the last house is sold if they wanted to.

I assume your amended CCRs are silent on how quickly the turn over should happen, there might be laws in your state that would specify.

Otherwise, if you think the developer's amendment is unreasonable or there are other reasons why the turnover should happen before the developer is ready, your recourse would be the courts. Don't expect this to be cheap. Maybe you can start by getting other interested owners to chip in and have a consultation with a lawyer to get an opinion on what your options and chances are. You can let the lawyer's advice and your financial pain threshold guide you from there.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
I've never heard of a debt to a developer that disappears at turnover.

Can you explain?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
BenjaminD (North Carolina)
Posts: 20
Posted:
The way our CCRs read is that any budget deficits during declarant control "shall be paid back to declarant if and to the extent that sufficient funds are generated by assessments in future years until such time as declarant no longer has the authority to appoint the directors and officers of the association."

We had lawyers review the CCRs a few months ago when we started this whole mess. Now we are trying to figure out the time period begins once 100% of the homes are sold. We have two homes left.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BenjaminD on 05/25/2016 8:34 PM
We are 225 home community under declarant (the developer) control currently. The declarant made an addendum last year to be in control until 100% of the homes are sold.


To which governing document was this "addendum" added? Once he has started selling lots, the declarant cannot unilaterally change the CC&R's, which is where I would expect to find language about when a turnover would take place.

Quote:

The motivator is that we currently have a debt with the declarant that they are currently having us payback a portion of. Its our understanding that once they are no longer in control that we do not have to pay back that debt.


This sounds fishy. The declarant-controlled association owes money to the declarant? Normally the developer is required to pay all expenses to build and maintain the infrastructure and amenities until he turns it over to the homeowners. Even then, he is required to turn over everything in good condition. Your question makes it appear that the developer has been financing his development with your money.

My best advice: find yourselves an attorney NOW.

BenjaminD (North Carolina)
Posts: 20
Posted:
Thanks for the response and we have spoken to an attorney a few months back. The CC&Rs is very well written to protect the developer. Allowing them to change the CC&Rs in that case of changing to 100% of homes sold. We have already paid an accountant to source the debt which is solely from operating and up-keep expenses. The only money owed is for the deficit we ran every year not having enough homes paying to cover the yearly expenses. Last year was the first year we had enough homes sold to cover the yearly operating expenses.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Gotcha.

1. How big is the deficit now?

2. How much is going into reserves?

3. Has an independent reserve study been done? If yes, what percent funded are you?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
BenjaminD (North Carolina)
Posts: 20
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 05/31/2016 8:32 PM
Gotcha.

1. How big is the deficit now?

2. How much is going into reserves?

3. Has an independent reserve study been done? If yes, what percent funded are you?

The debt is $265k

We have $10k in reserves.

We currently have a reserve study being completed now.

Pretty awful situation.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
You might have a claim against him at some point for under-funding reserves.

Once all the houses are sold, you might have a claim that he he has to go.

Not sure which is your bigger problem.

Very messy indeed.

Suggest that you lawyer up once your reserve study is complete.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Ben

To get this straight. You are saying the developer was charging the association for landscaping services above what dues were covering presently to the tune of the association owing him $256K. Is this correct?

Even if the association os turned over to the owners, will they still not owe this?

The debt aside, will present dues cover the association's cost?
BenjaminD (North Carolina)
Posts: 20
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 06/01/2016 7:28 AM
Ben

To get this straight. You are saying the developer was charging the association for landscaping services above what dues were covering presently to the tune of the association owing him $256K. Is this correct?

Even if the association os turned over to the owners, will they still not owe this?

The debt aside, will present dues cover the association's cost?

Correct. The community is 10 years old with 225 homes total. We just broke even last year for this first time that we didnt run a debt after paying for the pool management, landscaping, etc. So every year across those 10 years the debt we becoming less and less but as of the end of 2015 the total was $256k. Now the developer has us paying $60,000 per year, as of January 2016. We "negotiated" to only pay back $60k this year and $60k next year. But we learned that the moment the declarant is no longer in control they cannot collect on the debt. They cannot do a special assessment to pay it either. Now we are in a situation where the homes sold faster than they were prepared and we only have 2 homes left. Most likely everything will be sold before the end of this year.

So thats why we are wondering that once the declarant is forced to turnover the community to the homeowners after 100% of the homes are sold, what that actual time period is. The verbiage doesnt really exist in our documents.

I wish it just said "the declarant is required to turn over the community to homeowner control within 30 days of the final home being recorded as sold". But unfortunately nothing that exists.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Can you provide the exact language that creates the debt and the right to recover until turnover. Also date that clause was written in it's current form.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
BenjaminD (North Carolina)
Posts: 20
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 06/01/2016 10:36 AM
Can you provide the exact language that creates the debt and the right to recover until turnover. Also date that clause was written in it's current form.


We are currently completing a reserve study so that will hopefully help our case once we know any unknown costs.

Here is the verbiage you are requesting:

"Section 8. Budget Deficits during Declarant Control Period: Declarant may advance funds to the association sufficient to satisfy the defecit, if any, in any fiscal year between the actual operating expenses of the Association (exclusive of any allocations for capitol reserves) and the annual and special assessments for such fiscal year. Such advances shall be evidenced by promissory notes from the Association in favor of the Declarant and shall be paid back to Declarant if and to the extent that sufficient funds are generated by assessments in future years until such time as Declarant no longer has the authority to appoint the directors and officers of the Association."
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BenjaminD on 06/08/2016 6:46 AM
Posted By NpS on 06/01/2016 10:36 AM
Can you provide the exact language that creates the debt and the right to recover until turnover. Also date that clause was written in it's current form.



We are currently completing a reserve study so that will hopefully help our case once we know any unknown costs.

Here is the verbiage you are requesting:

"Section 8. Budget Deficits during Declarant Control Period: Declarant may advance funds to the association sufficient to satisfy the defecit, if any, in any fiscal year between the actual operating expenses of the Association (exclusive of any allocations for capitol reserves) and the annual and special assessments for such fiscal year. Such advances shall be evidenced by promissory notes from the Association in favor of the Declarant and shall be paid back to Declarant if and to the extent that sufficient funds are generated by assessments in future years until such time as Declarant no longer has the authority to appoint the directors and officers of the Association."

Very sticky. Definitely need the advice of a lawyer.

Some things I noticed:

1. It looks like he should have been issuing promissory notes every year. If he didn't, he might not be able to recover funds for that year.

2. If he didn't set aside funds for capital reserves, he might be in violation.

3. He can only collect to the extent that operating income exceeded operating expenses. The more that gets spent on the community, the longer it's going to take him to recover his advances.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

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