Is HOA responsible for damage one of its vendors caused to a homeowner's home (Georgia HOA)?

Started by DeannaD1 • 27 replies • 2222 views

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DeannaD1 (Georgia)
Posts: 10

Posted:

Hello! I am really at odds with my current THOA. In 2011 (I know this is so long ago), the hired landscaper (Five Star Landscaping owned by J.P. Wilcox--I hope no other HOA uses his services), instructed one of his employees to trim hedges around my front door area, which resulted in damage to my storm door. A rock hit the bottom of the glass and it shattered due to the heat in the middle of July 2011. I instructed my husband to remove the glass storm door due to liability issues (I did not want my tenant harmed trying to get up any glass). We removed the glass storm door and put up a mesh or screen door in its place until I could have the matter resolved. I reached out to both the HOA and landscaper the same day my tenant informed me of the damage. The landscaper advised he saw the damage to my door that morning and informed the president of our HOA. When I contacted the president of the HOA, she insists she was not aware of any damage to my home. The landscaper did not submit an incident report as instructed before beginning any landscaping services that morning. Long story short, I went back and forth with the landscaper and president with no resolution. I was pissed about the damage to my door, and I have not paid any dues since 2011. Plus, I was trying to sell the townhome with no success. I also learned the THOA filed a so-called lien against my property. In 2013, I reached back out to the board and its president in an effort to resolve the matter. The president responded to my e-mail advising the same landscaper broke her back glass sliding door, and she was able to get him to replace hers. She was supposed to get the property manager to discuss my account and let me know how we can move forward with some type of compensation. I did not hear back or follow-up. So, it is 2016, and I reached out again. I acknowledge I owe the dues; however, I feel the board should compensate me for the damage done to my property by the vendor they hired. I feel it is unfair for me to continue paying dues when their vendors can cause damage to our property(ies) with no repercussions. Also, I did contact Legal Shield (pre-paid legal) and learned I could handle the matter in civil court, but I incurred no expenses since I did not purchase a new storm door. I have to prove I suffered financial harm (Hello! They broke my glass storm door that I bought from Lowes for $700+!). The Legal Shield attorney suggested I contact the board and have them address the matter. The board refuses to acknowledge any wrongdoing or agree to compensate me for any damage done to my property. Additionally, I also called several glass vendors in my local area and learned I cannot just replace the glass in my storm door because of the frame. I was told I could only purchase a new storm door. I am absolutely livid!!!!!! I pay my mortgage each month with no issues. I have excellent credit, but I am strongly considering letting the house go into foreclosure because of this matter. I know my credit will suffer, but I will bounce back. I don't plan to make any major purchases. I feel it is the principle of the matter!! Please help me find a resolution!!!! Thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

A deadbeat, non-dues payer looking for us to justify her doing so based on a damaged door.

Does not fly with me deadbeat.

DeannaD1 (Georgia)
Posts: 10

Posted:

JohnC46, I am no dead-beat! I am simply asking for suggestions on how to amicably resolve the matter with my board. Again, I pay my mortgage as required with no issues. This does not make me a deadbeat.

DonA2 (Arizona)
Posts: 170

Posted:

If you haven't paid dues, don't expect them to even talk to you. You are in arrears. Your account should be in collections and have a lien on the property. Bring your account current and they might talk to you about any damage. But at this point I would doubt it.

DeannaD1 (Georgia)
Posts: 10

Posted:

DonA2, thank you for your feedback. I thought about paying the dues; however, I was told by a neighbor/board member at the time that the board would not hear me once I come back to them about the damage to my door. I offered to pay the dues when it first happened minus the total loss to my door. I was even willing to consider depreciation as well.

DonA2 (Arizona)
Posts: 170

Posted:

The two are separate. You owe your dues regardless. You should have never quit paying them. Now you have probably lost any likelihood that the board would consider any kind of damage claim.

DeannaD1 (Georgia)
Posts: 10

Posted:

DonA2, I guess I understand what you're saying. I just feel let down by the board. If my landscaper had caused the damage, I would have pursued him "tooth and nail" until I was compensated. I was advised to contact my board and let them handle the matter, which was not done. If I had known the HOA had so much power and would not be held accountable for the actions caused by their vendors, I would not have purchased in the community. It sounded so appealing when I first purchased (I would not have to worry about landscaping, all of the homes would be uniform, access to various amenities that I never used, etc). I can understand $100 annual dues for the upkeep of the main entrance to a subdivision, but this one is higher because it includes lawn care.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Sounds to me like the OP misplayed their cards. As suggested paying dues and collecting payment for damages are in NO WAY connected.

And then allowing this to drag on for 5 years! Incredible.

In many cases no sale will go through without payment of the dues owed. Not paying dues may have done exactly the opposite of what was intended and in the end made the board LESS receptive to settling this matter.

I'd be interested in hearing the landscaper's version and that of the board. My guess it might differ slightly from what has been provided by the OP.

Dues payments cover a multitude of services and expenses by not paying your share you not only damage the board's ability to cover costs you also put yourself at risk of possibly losing your property. Due to a lien and foreclosure if state laws allow.

Hardly, worth losing the property or one month's rent over a dispute with a $700 price tag.

Not sure why this was mishandled but my guess the OP response, attitude, actions and ignorance played a role.

Not you are left with one hot mess from 5 years ago. What a senseless waste of time and energy.....

DeannaD1 (Georgia)
Posts: 10

Posted:

JonD1, you are exactly right. This has been a waste of time and energy! I wish our board had access to a professional mediator, so that both parties can sit down and discuss the matter. I agree the dues are important, as it covers various services and amenities. I am also a business owner, and I have been for the past 10 years. When I disagree with a vendor about a purchase, I withhold payment until they agree to my terms (often times, they acknowledge there was an error on their end). It is difficult to recover money after you have paid the entire invoice. Also, there have been some financial wrongdoings discovered by a member (he was taking dues money and paying his personal bills while he awaited trial for a serious crime). Also, there were board members that intentionally served on the committee, so that they could get out of paying their dues. As homeowners, we were not aware board members were compensated for their volunteer services by not paying their dues.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

May I point out this repair would have been tax deductible on rental? So why keep going after a 3rd party and not pay dues? Illogical...

Former HOA President

DeannaD1 (Georgia)
Posts: 10

Posted:

Question: What does the board's DOLI policy cover? I read a post from 2010, and I saw where one of the forum members mentioned the HOA can be held accountable for damage done to a homeowner's property. Is this not correct? I do understand many of you will disagree with my decision to withhold the dues, but I felt I had no other recourse to prompt the board to acknowledge the damage done to my property. I should not have to incur attorney fees. I have served on the board in the past, and when homeowners came to the board with an issue, I would always encourage the board to hear our homeowner and work to amicably resolve the matter. We need all homeowners paying their dues. How did the president get this same landscaper to fix her back glass sliding door, and I could not get any response? I was very civil, and I spoke to this same landscaper via telephone on several occasions. When I asked him for his certificate of insurance, he quit responding to my e-mails and telephone calls. (I have attached a screen-shot from a 2010 forum response). I am just trying to understand. I am not looking for anyone to justify my decision to not pay the dues. I just want advice on how to move forward and clear this up while getting the board to acknowledge the damage to my home.

DonA2 (Arizona)
Posts: 170

Posted:

Again, you lost any leverage you might of had when you withheld payment of dues. You might have had a case to take to the board. But by not paying, you lost.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

One action does not justify the other. In a HOA NOT paying your dues does NOT equate to protest. You lose every time including your home... Which I did foreclose on such a protestor over 2K. They ended up sued by their tenant for 10K. So do you really want to protest or write it off your taxes?

Former HOA President

DeannaD1 (Georgia)
Posts: 10

Posted:

Melissa, thank you for your feedback. I totally get it. I am trying to work with the board now. I am just tying to find out how to handle the board in the future if this happens again. It sounds like the board is untouchable, and they cannot be held accountable. I really do not want my home foreclosed for the past due dues. I am simply asking the board to help me with a resolution. If I were the president, I would contact my vendor and inquire about the homeowner's alleged damage. The landscaper failed to notify the board of the damage to my home that morning before any landscaping work began. The landscaper tried to "Monday morning quarterback" and turn-in the inspection form later that evening to the president (after my tenant and I brought it to their attention). I would have contacted the homeowner and presented him/her with the certificate of insurance the board keeps on file for the vendors as a recourse to resolve the matter. At the same time, I would assure my homeowner, I understand their frustration and will assist with resolving the matter as reasonable. Meanwhile, I would encourage the homeowner to make arrangements to pay their dues. As your elected board, we will not abandon you or leave you hanging. This would have been all I needed.

I thank all of you for your responses, even the negative ones.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Deanna,

You should read the forums posting rules

DonA2 (Arizona)
Posts: 170

Posted:

The problem is five years have past. Do you have any documentation from when this occurred?

In the future, take lots of pictures and report the incident as soon as it happens.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DonA2 on 05/10/2016 2:49 PM

In the future, take lots of pictures and report the incident as soon as it happens.

And don't remove the glass until someone within the HOA has seen the damage.

DeannaD1 (Georgia)
Posts: 10

Posted:

Yes. When my tenant called me to advise the door was shattered, I instructed her to close the door and do not allow anyone to enter or exit from it because I did not want any liability from damage caused from the glass. When my husband left work, I instructed him to go by our home and look at the damage. My husband immediately took pictures with his cell phone and sent them to me. He said the door had to come down because the glass was already beginning to fall-in. I told my husband to take the door down and be sure all glass was picked up and properly disposed of for safety reasons. I e-mailed the pictures to the board for them to review and requested some assistance with addressing the damage. The landscaper refused to acknowledge he caused the damage; however, I had my tenant, who is retired, and two other neighbors tell me they saw this landscaper's employee in my yard with headphones on using an edger or trimmer. They heard a loud bang and looked across the street to see what happened. They saw the landscaper's employee standing in my yard by the electric box on his cell phone. When he hung-up the phone, he got in his truck and left. Pre-paid legal advised, in order to handle the matter in court, I need to prove damages. By not replacing the door, I did not incur any. He suggested I go through the board and let them address the matter. I did what I was instructed. When the board became unresponsive, I admittedly let it go out of disappointment and anger.

DeannaD1 (Georgia)
Posts: 10

Posted:

I wish I had known this forum existed when the damage first happened. I would have handled things differently.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

You do NOT have any dues.

You HAVE contractual ASSESSMENTS which are NOT voluntary.

Said assessments have NO RELATIONSHIP with anything else.

They MUST be paid.

There may ALREADY be a recorded lien against your property + late fees and attorney costs.

Pay up NOW before it is too late.

You owe me $1,000 for the above right on, dead accurate advice, NOT.

DeannaD1 (Georgia)
Posts: 10

Posted:

Thank you, PitA. I am working on payment arrangements now. I am going to accept the loss and avoid HOA's at all costs in the near future. This was first home right out of college, and I thought I knew what I was doing. Huge Mistake! I have learned. I just cannot believe HOA's have so much power. From my research, they have the power to foreclose on your home if the outstanding balance is greater than 2K! As president, I would reach-out to my homeowner and try to find out why the homeowner is not paying. There has to be a problem. If the homeowner has no valid reason the board can address, I totally understand pursuing other legal actions!!!

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DeannaD1 on 05/10/2016 3:34 PM

From my research, they have the power to foreclose on your home if the outstanding balance is greater than 2K!

Keep in mind that that varies by State.
In my VA hoa, we start the collection process when you are 4 months behind and will consider foreclosure as part of that process.

Quote:

Posted By DeannaD1 on 05/10/2016 3:34 PM

As president, I would reach-out to my homeowner and try to find out why the homeowner is not paying. There has to be a problem.

As Treasurer, I have reached out many many times. Often to the sound of silence.
Often, people simply don't want to talk about their finances with people.

Quote:

Posted By DeannaD1 on 05/10/2016 3:34 PM

If the homeowner has no valid reason the board can address, . . .

An Association is often limited on what they can address.
The Board typically has zero authority to waive assessments.
The Association often doesn't have a large buffer to carry homeowners who do not pay (the budgets are simply too tight - if the Association is ran properly).

At best, the Association can enter into a payment plan and waive late charges.

As Jon pointed out, paying assessments is a separate issue from anything else.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 351

Posted:

Your done.

Quote:

O.C.G.A. 9-3-32 (2010)
9-3-32. Recovery of personal property; damages for conversion or destruction

Actions for the recovery of personal property, or for damages for the conversion or destruction of the same, shall be brought within four years after the right of action accrues.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 351

Posted:

You're done

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 351

Posted:

What you should have done, probably in 2011, was immediately make a claim on the landscapers insurance, or make a claim to the HOA. If you didn't receive a settlement in a timely fashion (say two months) take both the landscaper and the HOA to small claims court.

Never withhold dues cause you're mad, all that does is dig the hole deeper.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

[img] I just cannot believe HOA's have so much power.[/img]

They have ONLY the power(s) granted by the contact/covenant to which you are a party by the very purchase of the home.

Said contract/covenant was referenced in the deed for which you signed.

Yes, you DID sign, and, YES, you did NOT read that which you signed.

5th grade stuff

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PitA on 05/11/2016 4:44 AM

I just cannot believe HOA's have so much power.

sorry, just came from a photo site

BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DeannaD1 on 05/10/2016 12:05 PM
. . .I feel it is the principle of the matter! Please help me find a resolution.

DeannaD1 (Georgia):
Respectfully you have a lot of good advice above. A 5 year old damage claim to your used storm door - which may or may not have been caused by the owners association's contract landscaper - has now got your unit liened. And the unit is no closer to having a replacement door. And the claim is probably statute barred /untimely.

It ain't possible to know if your Pre-paid Legal advised you to try withholding HOA fees ! But you can see where that deserved to go and how much support it gets above. Communities would otherwise collapse. Hope your lien & unlien costs are less than here.

About what you say is advice that actual physical replacement has to occur, if there is someone at this Forum with small claims experience in your state, they can advise just how valid is that advice ( if it was actually given ? ? ). A claimant's usual burden is proof of loss on balance of probabilities, not necessarily nor adequately : "I have replaced my storm door at $ X cost ). Lack of replacement - lack of funds ? - doesn't trump claims in some jurisdictions; unbalanced evidence usually does.

"On Principle" or not, landlords need to insure whatever components are lawfully their unit's, and be able to claim for insurable loss. This is a business expense as noted by Melissa, above with the deductible to be sought from blameworthy parties.

Lots of landscapers hear these claims - valid or not - and can be a tough nut to crack. Your own insurer may have just quietly paid to make your unit whole, less the deductible. And if you were on the board hearing your tenant's claim about the alleged noise that day, maybe you would be skeptical too.

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