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CarolynM3 (Georgia)
Posts: 63
Posted:
We are trying to do a cost-benefit analysis on installing a keyless entry system (fobs) for our 48-unit condominium's common areas. The proposals are coming up with $29,000 - $30,000. The basic scope of work is as follows: (Note: We have 2 buildings)

Summary:
Building 1 - Front entry door;2 stairwell doors and elevator lobby door
Building 2 - Front entry door;2 stairwell doors and elevator lobby door
Clubhouse Front Door
Pool Gate
Fitness Center Door

The homeowners requested this new technology. Our previous Treasurer thought it a waste of time because we have had only 1 or 2 instances of vandalism in 10 years even with the archaic key system. (and we know we have a lot of keys out that cannot be accounted for). The former treasurer posted an email on our group email site and now the homeowners are pushing back. Personally, a few of the board members think it is too high and is not cost-beneficial given the likelihood of the fees increasing in 2020.

Questions:

1. Based on the brief information, is this price too high?
2. I kind of feel the vendors are gouging us because of our location and are assuming folks have money in the HOA to cover the costs.
3. Have you made the conversion, and do you think the costs reasonable, prohibitive or what?
4. Challenges with the conversion? Any big gotchas after the install?

The president and the former treasurer had some major issues. The former treasurer did the broadcast to the community outlining why the project is a waste of time and money . The president want to push it through. We did so many capital improvements last year, I know the community would prefer we place this on hold. And...I am leaning that way as well.

Thanks for your assistance...as always...

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Carolyn,

The way to tell if a bid is too high is to obtain multiple bids.

What may be considered high for your area may be considered low for another area. Therefore, asking online will likely not provide the best basis for making such a determination.

Utilize the proposal you received, write up a statement of work and solicit bids from all available companies in your area. This will tell you if the initial quote is in the ball park or not.
CarolynM3 (Georgia)
Posts: 63
Posted:
TimB4,

We did get 2 bids and they are very similar with the exception that one has fixed labor costs and the other variable. But, the overall costs still exceeded our budgeted amount of $25K. ($29,000 and $30,000)/

Would still like to hear some experiences from folks as to whether the changeover was fiscally sound and the benefits exceeded the costs.

Thanks for your feedback. We do need to reach out to other vendors. We used our Property Managers' preferred vendors and those may not be what we need.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Key systems can be rekeyed pretty easily. Keyless would still have many of the same issues. Is it going to be card entry? A code? All of those still be given away or lost. What about power outages and manual overrides?
What about phone entry? Some copanies offer unlocking with smart phones. Still physical lock.

I would talk to a locksmith for recommendations. They may have the best suggestions on what they would install.

Former HOA President
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Carolyn,

Will each fob have a distinct, or discrete, code or are you going to have 48 fobs with the same code?

If all fobs have the same code it would have no advantage over a key system. The value to having discrete codes is that you would be able to track who went in and out each door and when.

The downside to having discrete codes is that the doors must all be wired to a computer running some sort of entry management software. This means having a place for a computer and someone to manage the software. The software will require an update every time someone moves in or out or loses a fob.

I used to manage self-storage units where some clients had 24-hr access. One of my clients once woke me up at 5 AM because his gate code would not work. It turned out that Microsoft had updated the computer operating system during the night and it was waiting for someone to manually input the password for the reboot. Just one example of unforeseen problems.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Another advantage of discrete codes is the ability to disable a given fob/card/whatever when the person moves or if they lose rights to amenities due to delinquency.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
From personal experience that is an outrageous price. If your dues are north of $600.00 per month I might be inclined to accept that price.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Keyless entry can run you a few thousand dollars per door because you're purchasing more than a re-configured door. There's the computer components that must be installed as well as possible internet interfacing to give you remote access to keep your door access programming up to date. Every bid I've solicited in regard to keyless entry has been more expensive than I thought it would be.

As to the service, if you have trespassing issues (not just vandalism), then keyless entry systems are beneficial. We reduced our pool traffic by 60%, easily, by only having validated keys work with our pool gate - telling us that trespassing was rampant (and all the lounge chairs were always taken up). We didn't realize the extent.

Fiscal soundness was not a concern because keyless entry will not generate financial return other than you can lock delinquent dues payers out of amenities (Fitness Room) until they pay up. You're buying convenience, inherent greater security and rendering hundreds of "lost" hard keys irrelevant.

So, it can be a wise investment or a waste of money depending on one's viewpoint.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 05/09/2016 5:08 PM
From personal experience that is an outrageous price. If your dues are north of $600.00 per month I might be inclined to accept that price.


Not so sure about that conclusion. My count is eleven doors that will require hardware. Each door will need a reader with wiring to the central computer, and wiring from the computer back to the door lock. They will need a computer and a place to install the computer where power is available. It is not likely that the builder left any space in his plans for a computer room, so something will have to be built. There will also need to be wiring between the buildings. This is not a repair, it is a whole new installation in a building where nothing like this had been planned.

CarolynM3 (Georgia)
Posts: 63
Posted:
We are looking at potentially raising our HOA fees, which are already at $576. And, in light of that, we are considering placing this project on hold. The President wants to pursue.

We have very little trepassing/ vandalism, etc. But, with so many unknown keeps out there, we thought this might minimize the impact of that kind of problem.

But, can't someone lend their fob to a non-resident should they choose? Seems that would negate the security that we want and create the same issues that are present with keys.

In terms of integrating software, we are already connected to our Property Management software. This would mean integrating this keyless system with an existing software configuration as opposed to having to create a standalone software process.

Thanks for everyone's feedback.....

Carolyn

PS. Each person would have their own unique identifier for the fob. WE did not plan to have a universal code that would be the same for everyone.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolynM3 on 05/13/2016 12:59 PM
But, can't someone lend their fob to a non-resident should they choose? Seems that would negate the security that we want and create the same issues that are present with keys.


Having worked in secured corporate environments I found that one of the biggest threats to security was good manners. We tend to hold doors open for the person behind us even when we do not know them. If they look like they should be working there we tend to not slam the door in their faces, even though good security would require us to do just that.

At one place I worked we had a rear entrance that was not marked at all. Once when I returned from lunch I found a woman in our back stairwell fumbling through her purse apparently looking for her ID card to slide through the scanner to unlock the door. I did not know her but she looked like a whole lot of others who worked for our company so I generously opened the door for her with my card. This was the back door to our offices, which were quite a maze of corridors and cubicles. Once we were inside it was clear that she had no idea where she was or how to get anywhere. My first clue that she did not belong there was when she asked how to get to the front lobby. I escorted her to the front desk and was surprised when she went right past the receptionist and out the front door. We were a software company in the then-highly-competitive field of Y2K (remember that?) remediation. About a week after the above incident someone got into our offices one night and stole about 20 laptops. I have always suspected that the woman I let in was part of that theft.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Our urban high rise towers always have had fobs, so I don't know if the price is reasonable.

If I lost mine, no one would know what building it belonged to. If I lent it to someone, I wouldn't be able to enter.

So...some buildings limit the number of fobs any unit can have. We don't. About every five years, we all reregister our fobs and they are "reset." They are identified by unit #.

We use fobs to enter our 2 lobbies and to get to any residential elevator floors except the P-levels & lobby. We do not need fobs to use our interior stairwells. I'm not sure, but I think it's a FireMarshall requirement to keep those doors easily accessible for emergency personnel. So maybe you don't need them for those doors, Carolyn.

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