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KarenC22 (Florida)
Posts: 18
Posted:
Our HOA has sent a deaf resident a letter stating she must either drug her dog or get rid of it because of barking. There is no complaint process or data -- just one very vocal person that lives on the other side of the building. The two neighbors adjacent to the deaf resident do not feel the dog is a nuisance. The complaining party used to be on the board and has convinced current board members to take action based on her testimony. I have referred the person with service dog to the Office of Human Rights/HUD for help. She needs the dog and if it is drugged, it is of no help to her. Since she is deaf, she does not know if the dog is barking or not. No one took time to collect data, so it seems she is being bullied by one vocal resident. Can the HOA really take action without data/evidence and demand someone drug or remove their service dog?

All the best,
Kay
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Your board should not of poked that bear. A service dog is sacred ground for the disabled and if they had done their homework, they would have found a better way than this to handle. Chances are great that with this particular way of handling it your board has zero sympathy for the disabled, let alone the service dog aspect.

Tell a disabled person to drug their dog???? "Dear homeowner, we know your dog is needed for your disability but we don't care. Please drug your dog so that it cannot perform it's duties to protect you, and if you don't like drugging your dog, then just get rid of it."

Your board deserves what it gets with this ignorance and hopefully the owner will bring the ADA down on them for it.

PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Can the HOA really take action without data/evidence and demand someone drug or remove their service dog?


Can the Electric Company really take action without data/evidence and demand someone drug or remove their service dog?

Can the Phone really take action without data/evidence and demand someone drug or remove their service dog?

Can the Shopping Center really take action without data/evidence and demand someone drug or remove their service dog?

Can the Post Office really take action without data/evidence and demand someone drug or remove their service dog?

Can the Bank really take action without data/evidence and demand someone drug or remove their service dog?

? WHAT THE FREAK IS WRONG WITH Y'ALL ?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
I agree with Crystal.

The Board is asking for trouble.

This is why I believe in requiring complaints from 2 lots/units before an Association will become involved in a potential neighbor v. neighbor dispute. Hopefully hind sight will show this to the Association.

Since the letter was sent, in the words of Mr. Holmes, the game is afoot. The ball is now in the dog owners hands and how they respond will set the ground rules for the game.

My suggestion is that the owner does not respond without checking with HUD (see: Disability Rights in Housing from HUD website).

If they do feel, or are pressured in responding, the response should simply be that since this involves their service animal and reasonable accommodations for the disabled, they are consulting with the Department of Housing and Urban Development on the issue.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
What is a service dog for a deaf person? I have never heard of one before this. Who trains them? Who certifies them? Is this dog trained and/or certified as a service dog? Or is this just a deaf person who happens to own a dog? Or a dog owner who happens to be deaf?

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 04/24/2016 6:31 AM
Service dogs for the deaf:

For People Who Are Deaf or Have Hearing Loss from National Education for Assistance Dog Services


According to them, the dog will alert the deaf owner that the telephone or cell phone is ringing. Wonderful! Then what? How does a deaf person use a phone when they cannot hear?
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KarenC22 on 04/23/2016 7:15 PM
Our HOA has sent a DEAF resident a letter stating she must either drug her dog or get rid of it because of barking. There is no complaint process or data -- just one very vocal person that lives on the other side of the building. The two neighbors adjacent to the deaf resident do not feel the dog is a nuisance.

I have referred the person with service dog to the Office of Human Rights/HUD for help.

She needs the dog and if it is drugged, it is of no help to her. Since she is deaf, she does not know if the dog is barking not. Can the HOA really take action without data/evidence and demand someone drug or remove their service dog?

Karen C 22 Fla ; Before the age of vibrating cellphones & strobe-type alerts eg doorbell, a genuine "service animal" might have to try a range of alerting actions. But that would likely focus on physical contact. "Companion" animals or "comfort" animals are a different matter, and it sounds like this is instead the scenario. Service dogs with up to date reinforcement don't usually disturb others(Some jurisdictions here are attempting to legislate the credentialling of bona fide 'service animals' after so many bogus claims and $75 bogus kits.

If NOT a service dog, shouldn't this animal's disruption be addressed to the standard of any other disruption complaint ?

Unless you want to drug the complainant instead, respectfully the sole complaint has to be taken seriously if for no other than the welfare of the animal itself.

Is it barking because is not being leash-walked to relieve itself ? Can a neighbour/neighbours help ?

Respectfully it is also a good idea for housing communities to have on their books a human rights POLICY document and a procedure to stick-handle disruption . .
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 04/24/2016 6:40 AM
Posted By TimB4 on 04/24/2016 6:31 AM
Service dogs for the deaf:

For People Who Are Deaf or Have Hearing Loss from National Education for Assistance Dog Services


According to them, the dog will alert the deaf owner that the telephone or cell phone is ringing. Wonderful! Then what? How does a deaf person use a phone when they cannot hear?

See: http://www.captel.com/
KarenC22 (Florida)
Posts: 18
Posted:
Dog's for the deaf notify of fire alarms, door knocks, phone calls (TTY), etc.

All the best,
Kay
KarenC22 (Florida)
Posts: 18
Posted:
TTY of course. Those have been around forever. You probably just didn't know what it was. It transcribes voice to type.

All the best,
Kay
KarenC22 (Florida)
Posts: 18
Posted:
I'm not sure if the dog came through a service or not, or would be classified comfort or deaf support. My aunt has a deaf support dog that does do all the nudging, etc., to notify of sound; so I'm aware of the need and usefulness of this type of animal. I think the board members are certainly not aware of the case and believe there should be a process to respect the lady's rights and find a solution that works, rather than demand she drug it or get rid of it. The complaining party even mentioned she is mad at the lady, too, for never learning to read lips. There is a little deaf-hate in all of this too.

All the best,
Kay
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
There are collars that zap dogs to keep them from barking.....
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Service dogs for the deaf have been around for a very long time. One of the first type handicaps service dogs were trained for. My job I work with several deaf customers who have translators for when they call us. Otherwise at home they do have an actual TTY or closed captioning type of translation.

You do NOT drug a dog EVER. That is the most insane thing ever heard. There are bark deterrents available. Like bark collars. However, this dog may have been trained for barking for alerting others to issues besides the owner. What if this person has collapsed? The dog is to alert someone in these cases. Drugging the dog idea is for idiots.

Turn this over to animal control like all other animal issues should be turned over to. They don't like the barking then the complainer should call the police NOT the HOA. The HOA can't kick out the resident, drug the dog, or punish them. This is outside of the HOA scope if you ask me. I would just entertain the complaint as no more than neighbor noise. Tell them to deal with it and put it in their court.

BTW... I have a neighbor who non-stops complains about my dogs barking. He's the who owns dogs that bark annoyingly. Call them "yippy yappy" dogs. He's constantly calling the police on me for it. My dogs aren't known to be "barkers". Even video taped it and lived behind the animal control officer who witness it all. No matter what I do, he complains. I put up a wood fence between us. My dogs don't go out after 11 pm. If they do bark, I quiet them down easily. He still complains and threatens me. One night he called me at 3 am to complain about my dogs barking. They weren't my dogs barking!!! A new neighbor moved in who has barking dogs. I was forced to give up 1 dog and the had to put to sleep because of his complaints in the past. Now, that is NOT acceptable and keeping my dogs. No other neighbors complain nor have the police found me in any violation. So I say it's their issue and not mine... NOT going to make it mine either.

Former HOA President
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
In our High rise HOA and in many others there are rules against dogs barking. Many others have rules against noise nuisances. Our board does send letters to owners of units where dogs bark too much, roughly more than 5 minutes straight.

Our security officers confirm the complaint and phones the owner of the unit involved. Usually that's enough to stop the nuisance. In fact, having been on the board for 9+ years, I think we've only had one case where the owner had to be called to a hearing & fined.

I suppose residents who are bothered could call animal control, but it seems to work out just fine having this handled at our level. Without a PM or security, I imagine, boards must handle this kind of nuisance just like they handle all nuisances or rules violations.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
HUD sample letter for an 'emotional support animal', note the section in BOLD

Sample letter for Companion Animal

As per: http://www.hud.gov/offices/fheo/PIRC/DocumentsAbstracts/Disability-Law-Center-R8/Letters/DLC-Animal-Letter/Sample-letter-for-Companion-Animal.doc

DATE

NAME OF PROFESSIONAL (therapist, physician, psychiatrist, rehabilitation counselor)
ADDRESS

Dear [HOUSING AUTHROITY/LANDLORD]:

[NAME OF TENANT] is my patient, and has been under my care since [DATE]. I am intimately familiar with his/her history and with the functional limitations imposed by his/her disability. He/She meets the definition of disability under the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Fair Housing Act, and the Rehabilitation Act of 1973.

Due to mental illness, [FIRST NAME] has certain limitations regarding [SOCIAL INTERACTION/COPING WITH STRESS/ANXIETY, ETC]. In order to help alleviate these difficulties, and to enhance his/her ability to live independently and to fully use and enjoy the dwelling unit you own and/or administer, I am prescribing an emotional support animal that will assist [FIRST NAME] in coping with his/her disability.

I am familiar with the voluminous professional literature concerning the therapeutic benefits of assistance animals for people with disabilities such as that experienced by [FIRST NAME]. Upon request, I will share citations to relevant studies, and would be happy to answer other questions you may have concerning my recommendation that [FULL NAME OF TENANT] have an emotional support animal. Should you have additional question, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Sincerely,

Signature

[NAME OF PROFESSIONAL]
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 04/24/2016 3:07 PM
HUD sample letter for an 'emotional support animal' / "Companion Animal" Dear [HOUSING AUTHROITY (sic)

Hope that whoever signs these provides better medical service than the HUD staff can spell.

The following a about a certified 'service animal' - not a mere comfort or companion animal - may have been cited here, but the Search function was off. Bogus Service Animal kits may be as widespread as the skill level of the condo President also held personally civilly liable in :

Sabal Palm Condos of Pine Island Ridge Association v. Fischer http://cases.justia.com/federal/district-courts/florida/flsdce/0:2012cv60691/398531/289/0.pdf?ts=1428830904 U.S. District Court – Florida Southern District March 19/14

May 27/14 Miami Herald “Davie woman with banished service dog gets $300,000 condo settlement” http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article1965083.html

June 5 2014 “Service Dog Dispute Costs South Florida Condo Association $300,000”by attorney Laura Manning-Hudson http://www.floridahoalawyerblog.com/2014/06/service-dog-dispute-costs-sout.html
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
We have gone of on a tangent here. I do not see the issue as a service animal issue. The complaint was about a noisy dog and should be treated as such, service animal or not.

My suggestion would be the dog owner get a few letters from her neighbors that they have no complaints about the dog barking and present these letters to the BOD.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Actually the questioner herself labelled her issue "Service Dog for Deaf Resident". Whatever the dog is, if the barking is a desperate but ignored plea to relieve itself outside, even a service dog might ? ? disregard training to send quiet signals to the client/patient/whatever . .
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I see as you do too, JohnC. I think trying to solve the noise nuisance is the issue. It's possible the OP doesn't know the difference between device animals and those trained to assist deaf people.
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 04/24/2016 6:40 AM
Posted By TimB4 on 04/24/2016 6:31 AM
Service dogs for the deaf:

For People Who Are Deaf or Have Hearing Loss from National Education for Assistance Dog Services


According to them, the dog will alert the deaf owner that the telephone or cell phone is ringing. Wonderful! Then what? How does a deaf person use a phone when they cannot hear?

um....it's called TTy and I am shocked at your ignorance of this. Surely your just joking around with these posts?
Just because people misuse the term service dog when they just want a lap dog to comfort them while grocery shopping does not render the entire program useless. Gesus Krist people, get a grip.
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
A service dog is a two way street. Can a service dog misbehave? Yes, if it's owner does not continue to reinforce it's training, like any other animal, including the two legged species, you revert to your animal instincts.

Bottom line is the board was stupid. They did not investigate the complaint properly and as we can see from their action, they do not have the intelligence to comprehend what they have done let alone what they should do.

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