๐Ÿ’ฌ Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account โ†’

โšก Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

JoshuaL (California)
Posts: 11
Posted:
We got hit with 4000 in fire inspection charges this year.

I'm told by our property manager that this is not something covered by reserves, that reserves are for items budgeted for.

Yet... this item isn't budgeted from operating expenses.

I'm also told that fire inspections occur every 5 years.

We had no budget for this, so we overran our budget by 4000 which normally would require repayment when tapping into reserves.

Rather than burden homeowners with special assessments, I'm hoping to implement this somehow. I think it should be from reserves since it occurs beyond an annual budget.

If not... then I think we should be hiring someone who is aware of fire inspection laws so we can always be up to date so we don't incur this loss every 5 years.

Any advice?
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Joshua

Honestly, this is something that your property manager should be helping you with as they have access to your documents. If they can't or won't, well...................?
JoshuaL (California)
Posts: 11
Posted:
preliminary research on a weekend

before I address the management

and having said that

I find your response... well, I'll just leave it at that.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Sorry Joshua,

I speak from experience.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
So, Joshua, the below is an actual quote from CA Civ. Code on what you can spend reserves finds on. In a nutshell, only items, called components, that are listed in your reserves study. And inspections of any kind are not listed.

"Spending Restrictions. Boards may not spend reserve funds for any purpose other than the repair, restoration, replacement, or maintenance of, or litigation involving the repair, restoration, replacement, or maintenance of, major components that the association is obligated to repair, restore, replace, or maintain." (Civ. Code ยง5510(b).)

But, Joshua, the below might help. You can borrow the inspections expense from reserves if you follow the CA Civ. Code below. To see more about reserves, go to davis-stirling.com, which is put together by a CA HOA law firm. Very useful!

"Borrowing From Reserves. Boards are allowed to borrow from reserves but are required to give notice of their intent to borrow by listing it as an item in the meeting agenda. The meeting notice must include the reason the reserve transfer is needed, some of the options for repayment, and whether a special assessment may be considered. If the board authorizes the transfer, it must issue a written finding recorded in the minutes explaining the reasons for the transfer, and describing when and how the money will be repaid to the reserves. (Civ. Code ยง5515.)"

It is true that your PM should have informed your board that this inspection was due, so that it could have been in your 2016 operating budget.
JoshuaL (California)
Posts: 11
Posted:
Thank you Kerry, some informative useful information other than tail wagging
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
It could be argued that REQUIRED inspection of a common element IS PART of "..... or maintenance of, .....".

Simply budget for it going forward and raise assessments SLIGHTLY next year to repay shortfall.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 04/18/2016 5:27 AM
It could be argued that REQUIRED inspection of a common element IS PART of "..... or maintenance of, .....".

Simply budget for it going forward and raise assessments SLIGHTLY next year to repay shortfall.

I agree
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I see your point, Tim, ditto, PiTA. But, inspection-required or otherwise- and maintenance are two very separate things.

Our three different certified reserves analysts never put inspections on our reserves lists. but components that ARE inspected are listed in the study, for example, testing the water that supplies our 2 cooling towers; 35 common area heat pumps, fitness center equipment, 6 elevators, various pumps and motors, generator to run our emergency lighting; ceiling fire sprinklers; generator to run them if needed and much more. Some inspections are required by the City; some are advised in our HOA manuals and by manufacturers' information.

It still looks to me that however Joshua's board might want to borrow from reserves and pay back with next year's budget. what does your PM suggest, Joshua?

PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 04/18/2016 5:27 AM
It could be argued that REQUIRED inspection of a common element IS PART of "..... or maintenance of, .....".

Simply budget for it going forward and raise assessments SLIGHTLY next year to repay shortfall.

D'OH
JoshuaL (California)
Posts: 11
Posted:
Raise hoa dues 3 years in a row or increase contingency budget
ChrisP5 (Missouri)
Posts: 165
Posted:
I'm not familiar with California law but couldn't you ask your reserve analysts to include almost anything in the reserve as long as you were funding it? We have some items built into our reserve that wouldn't normally be part of a replacement reserve but asked that they be included so we were setting aside money every few years it ales the contribution higher but keeps dues more level than one time spikes in expenses.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ChrisP5 on 04/21/2016 8:13 PM
I'm not familiar with California law but couldn't you ask your reserve analysts to include almost anything in the reserve as long as you were funding it? We have some items built into our reserve that wouldn't normally be part of a replacement reserve but asked that they be included so we were setting aside money every few years it ales the contribution higher but keeps dues more level than one time spikes in expenses.

Yes
JoshuaL (California)
Posts: 11
Posted:
we actually have a new reserve study coming up.

After I pointed out the fire maintenance items which added up to $3000 were not annual but every 5 years. Our property manager said we could add a reserve line item.

So I plan on adding two reserve line items. One for hydrojetting (about 1600) and one for fire maintenance issues that come up every 5 years (3200)
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Oh, Joshua your HOA is some kind of multi-story building or buildings?

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Joshua,

Have your HOA board halt any monthly Reserve Fund deposits and cover the required $4,000 in fire inspection expenses. Resume, the full deposit - if you're making them as part of your budget - when the Reserve is returned to its "re-imbursed" status.

Once the Reserve Fund cash hits that bank account, it will support your amenities. Transparently re-directing cash, before it hits the account, to avoid a special assessment will likely prove prudent to your clients - the Dues Payers.

I'm assuming you're not neck-deep in a property maintenance collapse and have SOME money currently sitting in Reserves.

If your community suffers under $1,000 fire inspection fees ($5,000 every 5 years), it would be smart, at your next operating budget drafting, to raise dues to cover that expense, when it's due. If Reserves are usually tapped for that expense, your board may choose to reduce the Reserve Deposits by $1,000 annually to create the "Fire Inspection Fund." I'd recommend against it, though.

๐ŸŽฏ You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • โœ“ Ask follow-up questions
  • โœ“ Share your experience
  • โœ“ Get expert advice
  • โœ“ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account โ†’

โšก Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here