Demanding Homeowner

LindaK5 (California)
Posts: 242

Posted:

What lengths does a Board have to go to appease a homeowner.

We are a self-managed community.

Homeowner has a water leak on his garage roof. He called my husband this past Sunday .... he went out to assess, as he is the Building Committee chair. My husband immediately contacted the person we use to do these repairs. Earliest he could get out would be this Tuesday or Wednesday. The owner was agitated, as he wanted something done immediately. Got a call today from the President of the Association (Im also the Secretary) that this homeowner contacted him and demanded to meet with the Board and was very unhappy about how his leak was handled. He also personally contacted 2 other Board members and apparently other homeowners. My husband called the homeowner and had a nice conversation with him, but he was still having a problem understanding why someone couldn't come out that same day and repair it. Thought the problem was resolved after the call with the homeowner, but the phone rang again and it was the President saying the homeowner is demanding a meeting again.

We have clear cut protocol on repairs, etc. That information is provided to all owners ... and monthly reminders.

My concern is kowtowing to owners over every little thing .... where does it end? To have a special Board meeting over this seems a bit much to me, especially when it's very clear what needs to be done in a situation like this.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LindaK5 on 04/11/2016 7:48 PM
We have clear cut protocol on repairs, etc.

Yes but do you have a clear protocol for homeowners to escalate their dissatisfaction with board performance?

What are your requirements for calling an emergency board meeting? On whose request? Who decides to call it?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

LindaK5 (California)
Posts: 242

Posted:

I'm not understanding your first statement.

Special Board meetings can be called by the President and another Board member with posted 72 hour notice.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

What lengths to appease? You are only required to go as far as your governing docs require.

Do you need to hold a meeting and listen to him yell at the Board? Yep. That is simply part of Board life. However, you may limit the time he has to talk.

Simply listen, explain what you did and in the time frame you did it, then politely say that you will take what he said under advisement. Then let it go.

If you want to have fun, offer him a position on the committee. This way he can learn how things are done and perhaps have constructive comments after the fact. I've often offered complainers a seat on the Board (as we typically have a vacancy) so they can be part of the decision process. They have always turned it down. I suspect that your individual will do the same to the committee position.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I am sure they will threaten to sue. Guess what? Tell them to go ahead. You will all wait on the paperwork. Just make sure your husband has a quote and the time frame the contractor is able to come out. Having worked and hired enough contractors, I understand they can't be available for immediate repairs. If they are, then they usually charge extra for that service.

In the meantime, there is some pipe wrap that maybe used. Think it's called "Magic Wrap". I had to use it on a leaking pipe in my house. Plus some JT Weld worked too. It was a pipe that calls for a torch to be used to remove it. Which is highly dangerous and risky. I gladly will put myself on a waiting list if it means getting right person for the job.

Katrina came through here a few years back. At the time I had an issue with a neighbor who was threatening to remove my fence. I had 4 dogs at the time and needed it. Earliest contractor took 2 weeks to get here. So It happens and can't control it. May want to shop now for more responsive contractors in the future.

Former HOA President

LindaK5 (California)
Posts: 242

Posted:

Just for edification ..... this isn't a pipe leak. It's a leak in his garage from the roof. Most likely dripping in from where the comp roof has pulled back.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Linda, the repair is being made very soon. If Mr. X wants a meeting with the board about this, he should email or write to the president or secretary making his request and giving a reason.

In CA, you need to provide two days notice before an executive session meeting (which seem advisable in this case as a "personnel" matter). The Board, of course, needs to be able to muster a quorum for any meeting of the board to be held.

It seems to me the /board should go ahead and meet with the man giving him a very short time to air his complaint. He then can be discussed and the board can decide what, if anything, it wants to do.

Out of curiosity, Linda, what size is your HOA? Condos, or?? How many are on the board?

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Linda

I have my own management company, but previously worked for different companies. By self managing your complex, you may save money, but you also limit available resources.

I have to assume you are either in a townhome or condo complex where the garage roof is common area. You leak came from either a clogged or backed up gutter or the underlayment is bad. Being you are self managed, you are probable a relatively small complex, so you may have a roof, but that roofer may have many clients. When it rains, the busiest people afterwards are the roofers. In an emergency, they may tarp until they can repair.

How do you mitigate in the future? Use this experience to communicate to the membership what their expectation should be in a situation like this. Many people think this issue is an emergency and must be pushed to the front of the line. As someone suggested, maybe have them join a committee and work on a better solution.

LindaK5 (California)
Posts: 242

Posted:

Kerry ... 48 unit townhouse complex. 5 Board members, but me as secretary running 99.9% of everything. Very senior board and it's too much trouble to do much of anything. Most Board meetings, I have the President and VP huffing and puffing because the meeting is taking them away from tv time. Overall, it's pretty pathetic.

We have numerous resources for repairs .... utilize them all. None would have been able to get out as quick as the one we contacted. We went out of our way for this, as we do for many. Just so frustrating.

H
To give you an example of what I'm dealing with ..... recently a tenant called the President (no no unless an emergency) to complain the the contractor left construction material behind her unit. President went and looked, couldn't find anything. Called the tenant back to get a better description of where it might be located and looked again. Couldn't find anything. So then the President calls the contractor out to look ( at a charge of $75/hour) and he finds a stick of wood less the size of a small ruler. This is the ridiculousness of it all.

LindaK5 (California)
Posts: 242

Posted:

Richard, yes, roof is common area. At every Board meeting this is discussed. We are very communicative on these issues, both verbal and in writing. We have common area and architectural docs that are well defined and very, very clear about this sort of thing. Still, you have people that feel it isn't quick enough or good enough, but all they are willing to do is complain about it.

This person has run for a Board position twice and lost by a landslide both times. In fact, at this last election, at the meeting where the votes were counted and announced, he didn't even show up! Many folks just don't realize that holding a Board position is a lot of responsibility and not just what they see at a Board meeting held every other month.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 04/11/2016 10:29 PM
How do you mitigate in the future? Use this experience to communicate to the membership what their expectation should be in a situation like this. Many people think this issue is an emergency and must be pushed to the front of the line. As someone suggested, maybe have them join a committee and work on a better solution.

In my townhouse community, people generally fall into 2 categories - those that downsized and those that came from apartment-style living.

My experience is that chronic complainers in the second group can learn that HOA living is a different type of relationship. It could take a while though.

But if your chronic complainer downsized, he should know better that services are not and never were "on call." Lucky for us, we don't have those kind of people.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

LindaK5 (California)
Posts: 242

Posted:

Where do you live .... I want to move there! :-)

This person is middle age, doesn't rely work and I'm pretty sure his dad is helping to support him. Before this, he lived in a trailer park and rentals. He has had a taste of remodeling his place (window replacement), so now he thinks he is a contractor and completely knows how the system works!

LindaK5 (California)
Posts: 242

Posted:

Kerry .... is there somewhere (Davis Stirling/civil code) that states a homeowner must present his complaint on writing?Or is this just a given as it's the courteous thing to do? We have nothing in our docs about that particular item.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Doubt there's anything in the D-S legislation. But there's no reason why the Board cannot inform this owner that they will meet with him in a duly noticed regular mtg. or at your regular executive session (if you have a reg. time for it). The Board would like his written request for the meeting stating the facts as the Owner knows them so that everyone's "on the same page."

How's the repair going? Parts of CA have had lots of rain this year and I think roofers in those parts are very busy.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Doubt there's anything in the D-S legislation. But there's no reason why the Board cannot inform this owner that they will meet with him in a duly noticed regular mtg. or at your regular executive session (if you have a reg. time for it). The Board would like his written request for the meeting stating the facts as the Owner knows them so that everyone's "on the same page."

How's the repair going? Parts of CA have had lots of rain this year and I think roofers in those parts are very busy.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Linda

Every association has one or two CCO's (Chief Complaining Officer). It comes with the territory. You owe it to yourselves to listen to them in case there is any validity. If no validity, then treat them with benign neglect.

LindaK5 (California)
Posts: 242

Posted:

Kerry - we've had alot of rain, but not much lately. Our composition shingle roofs have held, which is great. We've been replacing roofs regularly to protect everything else. This community has a LONG history of using lousy contractors and being taken advantage of. We're still in catch-up mode.

John - LOVE that term, CCO! Will have to share that with Board members.

We have an executive meeting scheduled for "noise nuisance" that is severely affecting a homeowner, so this homeowner's request to speak to the board will be dovetailed into that meeting. He was told to send his request to the Board care of the Secretary, but he hand delivered it to the President. And, he didn't put his topic in the letter, just that he wanted to speak to the Board about some positive suggestions. Guess we'll have to wait until the meeting to find out what it's all about.

LindaK5 (California)
Posts: 242

Posted:

Kerry - we've had alot of rain, but not much lately. Our composition shingle roofs have held, which is great. We've been replacing roofs regularly to protect everything else. This community has a LONG history of using lousy contractors and being taken advantage of. We're still in catch-up mode.

John - LOVE that term, CCO! Will have to share that with Board members.

We have an executive meeting scheduled for "noise nuisance" that is severely affecting a homeowner, so this homeowner's request to speak to the board will be dovetailed into that meeting. He was told to send his request to the Board care of the Secretary, but he hand delivered it to the President. And, he didn't put his topic in the letter, just that he wanted to speak to the Board about some positive suggestions. Guess we'll have to wait until the meeting to find out what it's all about.

LindaK5 (California)
Posts: 242

Posted:

Kerry - we've had alot of rain, but not much lately. Our composition shingle roofs have held, which is great. We've been replacing roofs regularly to protect everything else. This community has a LONG history of using lousy contractors and being taken advantage of. We're still in catch-up mode.

John - LOVE that term, CCO! Will have to share that with Board members.

We have an executive meeting scheduled for "noise nuisance" that is severely affecting a homeowner, so this homeowner's request to speak to the board will be dovetailed into that meeting. He was told to send his request to the Board care of the Secretary, but he hand delivered it to the President. And, he didn't put his topic in the letter, just that he wanted to speak to the Board about some positive suggestions. Guess we'll have to wait until the meeting to find out what it's all about.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Linda, Positive suggestions are perfect in your open meetings' open forums. Executive sessions should only be used for fifing, etc., as you know. I'd suggested it earlier because he was going to complain bitterly about your failure to respond immediately. e.g., basically personnel issue.

I honestly wouldn't let him take up your Ex. Sess. time without specific suggestions from you so that you "have time to research" his ideas before the meeting. Another approach is to invite him to send his suggestions to the board in writing for inclusion on the agenda of your next regular meeting. Again, that wy you'd have time to research his suggestions.

I disagree with the notion that boards must spend time with an Owner who won't even show them the respect of writing down his suggestions for the board. I suppose, though, it's possible, this time with you all will make him feel better, and he'll stop being a PITA? Might be worth a shot.

LindaK5 (California)
Posts: 242

Posted:

Kerry - taking your advice. I'm discussing with the Board about getting this person OFF the agenda for the Executive session. This is ridiculous. Like you said - if he can't put in his letter what his concern is, then he can bring it up at the regular Board meeting.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I think that'll be the right approach, Linda. As you know, in CA, ex. sess only may be used for very few reasons. Refusing to r write to the board his "suggestions" or gripes, means that your Board really cannot know if his "topics" qualify for ES in our state.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I think that'll be the right approach, Linda. As you know, in CA, ex. sess only may be used for very few reasons. Refusing to r write to the board his "suggestions" or gripes, means that your Board really cannot know if his "topics" qualify for ES in our state.

LindaK5 (California)
Posts: 242

Posted:

I'm frustrated by a Board (except me) that cowtows to residents ..... and they don't follow the letter of the law. I fear a lawsuit because they are just trying to be good neighbors. I get that, but you can be a good neighbor and follow the rules, too. Doing this meeting is setting a very bad precedent. We can't have special meetings for homeowners for every little complaint. That is just plain ridiculous and a waste of time. Homeowners can present those issues at other meetings.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I agree, Linda!