JackieW3 (Florida)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
My kids can't visit with their pet. The rule is owner pets only. If I put my condo in a family trust do all trustees get treated as owners?
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Owner pets only
Started by JackieW3 • 27 replies • 1421 views
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JimR24 (Texas)
Posts: 399
Posts: 399
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JackieW3 on 04/05/2016 3:29 PM
My kids can't visit with their pet. The rule is owner pets only. If I put my condo in a family trust do all trustees get treated as owners?
My kids can't visit with their pet. The rule is owner pets only. If I put my condo in a family trust do all trustees get treated as owners?
Hi Jackie - if i were in your shoes, i'd make this same request for information to your Condo Association President. Let us know what he says - okay?
oljim, in texas
Lovin' life with my honey!
and, President of HOA in Texas
and, President of HOA in Texas
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Say, Jackie, did you see that rule with your own eyes? Or did someone tell it to you?
And does it say only Owners' pets are allowed on the premises? Or, only owners may keep pets on the premises?
Btw, are you saying that renters may not have pets?
And does it say only Owners' pets are allowed on the premises? Or, only owners may keep pets on the premises?
Btw, are you saying that renters may not have pets?
JackieW3 (Florida)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
Below is the policy.
a) Animals shall not be kept in any Unit or any part of the Building in which the Unit is a part, nor on any patios or balconies or upon any Common Elements or other part of the Condominium, EXCEPT that dogs (other than Pit Bulls and Rottweilers) and cats and other common domesticated household pets not to exceed two (2) in number, may be kept by Unit Owners within each Unit Owner's respective Unit, but shall not be maintained for breeding purposes.
a) Animals shall not be kept in any Unit or any part of the Building in which the Unit is a part, nor on any patios or balconies or upon any Common Elements or other part of the Condominium, EXCEPT that dogs (other than Pit Bulls and Rottweilers) and cats and other common domesticated household pets not to exceed two (2) in number, may be kept by Unit Owners within each Unit Owner's respective Unit, but shall not be maintained for breeding purposes.
JackieW3 (Florida)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
The HOA president says that only owners can have pets. I specifically asked about my children and he said owners only. Our kids would have to board their pets. My kids live 1000 miles away and boarding their pets is not an option.
ArtT5 (Illinois)
Posts: 84
Posts: 84
Posted:
Perhaps I'm missing something after enjoying a nice pinot noir, but I see nothing in the language you quoted that in any way prevents a you from housing a pet owned by a guest. It would appear that this is a case where someone in a position of authority is simply making up a restriction that doesn't actually exist, and if this were April Fool's Day I would say that's quite unusual. I'd say ignore the bully. If there are any questions, your visitors brought the pets to you as a gift, so they were owner pets. You decided not to keep them when your visitors left.
JimR24 (Texas)
Posts: 399
Posts: 399
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JackieW3 on 04/05/2016 4:30 PM
The HOA president says that only owners can have pets. I specifically asked about my children and he said owners only. Our kids would have to board their pets. My kids live 1000 miles away and boarding their pets is not an option.
The HOA president says that only owners can have pets. I specifically asked about my children and he said owners only. Our kids would have to board their pets. My kids live 1000 miles away and boarding their pets is not an option.
Sounds to me like - from reading your regulation - only owners can have pets in your condo. It's my understanding that if a home is held within an irrevocable trust, the true owner is the trust itself - not the beneficiaries.
Just my $.02 worth.
oljim, in texas
Lovin' life with my honey!
and, President of HOA in Texas
and, President of HOA in Texas
ArtT5 (Illinois)
Posts: 84
Posts: 84
Posted:
I'm reading it to say owners may keep two dogs within their unit, with no requirement that the pets kept there be owned by the unit owner. But that's the wine talking.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Thanks, Jackie. I read and interpret "kept" as owned or possessed. I do not read it to mean pets cannot visit. so I agree with Art and haven't had my glass of wine yet!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Tell them the dog is yours and the kids are watching it for you.
Worst case, you may have to pay $10 for a license to prove it's yours.
Worst case, you may have to pay $10 for a license to prove it's yours.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
So the policy is only owners are allowed to have pets.
And the kids who are not owners wish to bring their dogs.
Boarding is not an option so violating the pet policy is the only choice.
I would not play word games or engage in an argument based on semantics. Might result in escalating your problem.
And the kids who are not owners wish to bring their dogs.
Boarding is not an option so violating the pet policy is the only choice.
I would not play word games or engage in an argument based on semantics. Might result in escalating your problem.
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
I don't see the word "kept" as defining ownership. I see it as defining where the animal is to be and I don't see anything specifying that the pet must belong to the owner. But... if the president wants to play that game, congratulations on your new pet! I hope all things work out and if not it looks like your children can take your new pet with them when they leave.
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JackieW3 on 04/05/2016 4:25 PM
Below is the policy.
a) Animals shall not be kept in any Unit or any part of the Building in which the Unit is a part, nor on any patios or balconies or upon any Common Elements or other part of the Condominium, EXCEPT that dogs (other than Pit Bulls and Rottweilers) and cats and other common domesticated household pets not to exceed two (2) in number, may be kept by Unit Owners within each Unit Owner's respective Unit, but shall not be maintained for breeding purposes.
Below is the policy.
a) Animals shall not be kept in any Unit or any part of the Building in which the Unit is a part, nor on any patios or balconies or upon any Common Elements or other part of the Condominium, EXCEPT that dogs (other than Pit Bulls and Rottweilers) and cats and other common domesticated household pets not to exceed two (2) in number, may be kept by Unit Owners within each Unit Owner's respective Unit, but shall not be maintained for breeding purposes.
It states the animal cannot be "kept," or stored in any part of the condo that your unit is located in. Then it states the exception - dogs, cats, and other domesticated animals numbering 2 max can be kept in your unit (not the balcony or storage room) and it cannot be used for breeding.
The problem I have with not keeping the dog because of some amateur board member's interpretation is that you then you start having them make all sorts of rules they will try to enforce that are not written anywhere. Can this escalate? Certainly. It can also c use trouble in the future with harassment and associations definitely have more resources to fight it but I think the policy is clear - only 2 domesticated animals not for breeding. Doesn't specify ownership.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JackieW3 on 04/05/2016 4:25 PM
Below is the policy.
a) Animals shall not be kept in any Unit or any part of the Building in which the Unit is a part, nor on any patios or balconies or upon any Common Elements or other part of the Condominium, EXCEPT that dogs (other than Pit Bulls and Rottweilers) and cats and other common domesticated household pets not to exceed two (2) in number, may be kept by Unit Owners within each Unit Owner's respective Unit, but shall not be maintained for breeding purposes.
Below is the policy.
a) Animals shall not be kept in any Unit or any part of the Building in which the Unit is a part, nor on any patios or balconies or upon any Common Elements or other part of the Condominium, EXCEPT that dogs (other than Pit Bulls and Rottweilers) and cats and other common domesticated household pets not to exceed two (2) in number, may be kept by Unit Owners within each Unit Owner's respective Unit, but shall not be maintained for breeding purposes.
JackieW Fla :
1 Respectfully, what you describe as a "policy' actually does read like some form of formal governance document eg from a Declaration, By-law or (house) Rule. Not from a mere best practice policy.
2- Respectfully, its best construction seems to be that whether there are one, ten or a thousand owners on title, no more than 2 dogs ( except pits & Rotts )total may be harboured within a unit.
Yes it doesn't say that only such exception is reserved for whichever portion of multiple ownership is in "residency" nor whether "residency' is attempted defined within the source document whatever it is.
Attempting instead to directly link whichever dog(s) to an occupant owner sounds "reasonable" in case it becomes necessary to commence some form of legal claim or removal process. Otherwise every NON-dog owning multiple owner would get dragged along for the liability ride, but service to merely one may constitute service to the whole bunch.
3- What happens incidentally if management actions a provision rightfully to submit proof of licensing, up to date vaccinations, kennel club registrations etc ? Would each dog have to be cited multiple ownership on each such document ? Gets complex . . .
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
From the wording, appears that intent of the rule is to allow resident-owners but not tenants to have pets. IMO, might be some value in such a rule.
In your case, there is an owner-occupant and your kids are visitors not tenants.
Think Prez can be challenged on his interpretation. What do the rest of the board think?
As far as the trust is concerned, not a slam dunk either way. You can always find a lawyer to argue one side or the other.
In your case, there is an owner-occupant and your kids are visitors not tenants.
Think Prez can be challenged on his interpretation. What do the rest of the board think?
As far as the trust is concerned, not a slam dunk either way. You can always find a lawyer to argue one side or the other.
Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
MichelleK5 (New York)
Posts: 161
Posts: 161
Posted:
Just have your kids come with their pet. If someone, a neighbor or board member make it an issue, do as Tim said and say it's yours. Keep it simple.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
My suggestion the OP weigh their next move carefully.
Unless litigation is something they would welcome to resolve this.
We too have a pet policy that does not permit tenants or guests to have pets on the property.
Now you can view this from any side you wish but the board can and will interpret this policy as they see fit.
The suggestions the OP now play word games with ownership and such is foolish. I would get familiar with the board and likelihood they might issue violations and or fines. Best to know before you intentionally go down that road.
I would think the property would have the right to set a pet policy. The OP can either abide but that policy or begin conflict with the board.
Surely, there can be other options.
Unless litigation is something they would welcome to resolve this.
We too have a pet policy that does not permit tenants or guests to have pets on the property.
Now you can view this from any side you wish but the board can and will interpret this policy as they see fit.
The suggestions the OP now play word games with ownership and such is foolish. I would get familiar with the board and likelihood they might issue violations and or fines. Best to know before you intentionally go down that road.
I would think the property would have the right to set a pet policy. The OP can either abide but that policy or begin conflict with the board.
Surely, there can be other options.
BanksS
Posts: 403
Posts: 403
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichelleK5 on 04/06/2016 6:39 AM
Just have your kids come with their pet. If someone, a neighbor or board member make it an issue, do as Tim said and say it's yours. Keep it simple.
Just have your kids come with their pet. If someone, a neighbor or board member make it an issue, do as Tim said and say it's yours. Keep it simple.
I agree. Do your neighbors pay that much attention to your visitors and whether they bring a pet or not? Maybe it won't even be noticed but if it is, as Tim said, say it's yours.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
My children visited and brought me a pet as a gift but during their stay we determined the pet was not appropriate for me especially after all it did was hump my leg all the time. We decided it best my children take the pet with them when they left.
We might try it again but for now, they are minding my pet.
We might try it again but for now, they are minding my pet.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BanksS on 04/06/2016 7:04 AM
Do your neighbors pay that much attention to your visitors and whether they bring a pet or not? Maybe it won't even be noticed but if it is, as Tim said, say it's yours.
Do your neighbors pay that much attention to your visitors and whether they bring a pet or not? Maybe it won't even be noticed but if it is, as Tim said, say it's yours.
If the condo has a lobby with either cameras or staff, then an unknown animal won't go undetected for long.
Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
BanksS
Posts: 403
Posts: 403
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 04/06/2016 7:12 AM
Posted By BanksS on 04/06/2016 7:04 AM
Do your neighbors pay that much attention to your visitors and whether they bring a pet or not? Maybe it won't even be noticed but if it is, as Tim said, say it's yours.
Do your neighbors pay that much attention to your visitors and whether they bring a pet or not? Maybe it won't even be noticed but if it is, as Tim said, say it's yours.
If the condo has a lobby with either cameras or staff, then an unknown animal won't go undetected for long.
Good point. I'm used to living in a neighborhood where the homes are pretty far apart. I don't pay attention to my neighbor's visitors.
MichelleK5 (New York)
Posts: 161
Posts: 161
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 04/06/2016 7:12 AM
Posted By BanksS on 04/06/2016 7:04 AM
Do your neighbors pay that much attention to your visitors and whether they bring a pet or not? Maybe it won't even be noticed but if it is, as Tim said, say it's yours.
Do your neighbors pay that much attention to your visitors and whether they bring a pet or not? Maybe it won't even be noticed but if it is, as Tim said, say it's yours.
If the condo has a lobby with either cameras or staff, then an unknown animal won't go undetected for long.
Yeah, but do you think people really care? I mean if the dog doesn't bark, isn't peeing and pooping all over the grass and common areas, why make a stink over it ya know? I wouldn't.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichelleK5 on 04/06/2016 7:21 AM
If the condo has a lobby with either cameras or staff, then an unknown animal won't go undetected for long.
Posted By NpS on 04/06/2016 7:12 AM
Posted By BanksS on 04/06/2016 7:04 AM
Do your neighbors pay that much attention to your visitors and whether they bring a pet or not? Maybe it won't even be noticed but if it is, as Tim said, say it's yours.
Do your neighbors pay that much attention to your visitors and whether they bring a pet or not? Maybe it won't even be noticed but if it is, as Tim said, say it's yours.
If the condo has a lobby with either cameras or staff, then an unknown animal won't go undetected for long.
Yeah, but do you think people really care? I mean if the dog doesn't bark, isn't peeing and pooping all over the grass and common areas, why make a stink over it ya know? I wouldn't.
I'm thinking it's a secured building.
If so, they might not want lots of strangers going in and out at all hours.
They might believe that owner-residents will be more careful than guests or tenants about "accidents".
If there's an "accident" on the fifth floor hallway that staff has to clean up, they'll have a good idea of who the culprit is.
Less hassle to confront an owner-occupant about what her pet did than what her guest's pet did.
Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JackieW3 (Florida)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
There are cameras and issues with pets as its a large resort style complex. We own 2 pets which I should have included in my post - important info - sorry for the omission .we are retired and my husband is disabled. We thought a condo would be a great solution. Looks like a move is in our future . . .
MichelleK5 (New York)
Posts: 161
Posts: 161
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JackieW3 on 04/06/2016 8:30 AM
There are cameras and issues with pets as its a large resort style complex. We own 2 pets which I should have included in my post - important info - sorry for the omission .we are retired and my husband is disabled. We thought a condo would be a great solution. Looks like a move is in our future . . .
There are cameras and issues with pets as its a large resort style complex. We own 2 pets which I should have included in my post - important info - sorry for the omission .we are retired and my husband is disabled. We thought a condo would be a great solution. Looks like a move is in our future . . .
Jackie, my parents own a condo in Fl (Delray beach) that sounds similar to yours, but they're only down in Fl for about 5 months out of the year.
We visit with our two dogs whenever we go to the Keys and always spend at least one night there.
My mom never thought of asking the board if it's ok, and we've never had a problem.
What would happen if they just came? A fine? If that's all, maybe it's worth it.
JackieW3 (Florida)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
The condo newsletter went into detail on the pet policy and specifically visitors with pets. We will go ahead and have our 3 weekend visits a year and see how they deal with it. I would welcome a reasonable fine . . .
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Are any of your "pets" service animals? I would think in that case it could be argued in favor of the 3rd animal.
JackieW3 (Florida)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
Not a service animal but absolutely an emotional support pet.
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