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DannyF (California)
Posts: 1
Posted:
I leave in a 400+ condominium complex with 3 swimming pools and 4 tennis courts that are used at best 10% of the times. The building manager gave us a letter stating that our two years old twins can not use their tri cycles in the balcony, in common areas, any where outside the unit and we were even told that they can not even use the tri cycles in the tennis court because it would scratch the paint. We were even be told not to bring the toddlers to the Recreation room because it is not safe for them. When I asked the management office if there are any places designated for kids to play the response was basically no where and if I wanted I can bring this up in a board meeting.

anyone has suggestions as what can be done or how to deal the management office?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
This is a board issue not a management office one. I can see their point on not allowing the tri cycles on the Tennis Courts. That can cause damage to the surface. I believe bicycles should be on concrete driveways, sidewalks, or streets only. Anything else isn't designed for such. It would be like someone coming in with roller blades and rolling around on your wood floors.

My question is it they can't play period or just not use the tri cycles in common areas? Big difference.

Former HOA President
JerryD5 (Colorado)
Posts: 218
Posted:
Danny, don't feel bad. A few years ago, a Colorado HOA put a new rule that kids would not be allowed to use sidewalk chalk anymore. Apparently a particular homeowner complained that kids in the association used the chalk on HOA sidewalks (and allegedly on a few homeowner's steps). The HOA made the decision to ban sidewalk chalk throughout the entire association (in their public/common areas). The uproar garnered national attention and caused the HOA to recind the new rule immediately.

Hopefully you find a place for your twins to play.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
The property manager (PM) usually is directed by the Board of Directors to enforce the rules of your HOA. So, before you bring your issue up at a board meeting, or write a letter to your Board, read your documents. There may be something in your CC&Rs or in your Rules & Regulations. In other words, we need additional info.

What do your rules say about bikes, skateboards or similar wheeled devices? Are they permitted anywhere in your exterior "common areas"? Does it matter if they're used by kids or adults? In our 200+ condo complex, none are allowed anywhere in the interior or exterior common areas.

Is your "Recreation Room" actually a fitness center with weights and other equipment? If not, what is in this room? In our Fitness Center, no children under 14 are allowed due to the dangers that the weights and other equipment can pose

Is it correct that your balcony is your own "exclusive use" common area? This means that only you can use it. But it also means that the HOA can make rules about them. Are there any written rules about your balconies that would forbid wheeled vehicles/toys on them? We have no such rules but 95% of our balconies and decks are pretty small. In addition, few children live here.

And Melissa's question is a good one: may they not play (vs ride wheeled toys) at all in the common areas, e.g., on the pool decks or in the tennis courts? What are the tennis court rules about its use?
ArtT5 (Illinois)
Posts: 84
Posted:
It sounds to me like this is an issue that might give rise to a HUD enforcement action against the association. Specifically, rules that unduly burden families with children can be considered discrimination based on family status. I'm not suggesting you immediately run off to file a complaint, but mentioning that you've been told this may be an option could give you some leverage in reaching a workable solution.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I agree with you, Art, but if the rules say no wheeled devices, there's no discrimination against children or families with children.

I've looked up the materials about young kids in fully equipped gyms and the HOA may define that as dangerous and can keep them out.

This is why I'd like to see the wording of Jackie's docs
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Although the title being "Children not allowed to Play" can make a big sympothy headline in the media, it's not what the issue is.

The issue is that the Bikes can not be used in common areas or on surfaces designed and built for other purposes (tennis courts, etc.). Without knowing what the governing documents say about use of common areas, it's difficult to provide good advice.

On the second issue of use of the rec room, it would depend on what is in the rec room.
There are often rules that require a specific age and adult supervision to use specific equipment.
Therefore, without knowing what is housed in the recreation room, an informed opinion can't really be provided.

As Kerry said, the first place to start is to read and understand the governing docs.

As Art said, this may (may) be an issue of age discrimination or an issue of safety and liability.

Since you are in California:

Here is a link to davis-stirling sites skateboards and bicycles page

here is a link to their discrimination page

Keep in mind that a rule of children may not ride bikes on common may be seen as discriminatory. However, a rule that nobody may ride bikes on common area may be seen as reasonable.
The language used in the governing documents and on posted rules are what counts. Not what you have been told.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DannyF on 04/05/2016 1:20 PM
. . . we were even told that they can not even use the tri cycles in the tennis court because it would scratch the paint. We were even be told not to bring the toddlers to the Recreation room because it is not safe for them.

DannyF Cal: as mentioned above by Melissa, lay-cold or polymer type etc tennis courts are vulnerable & pricey to repair ( specifically warm weather gouges by pedals & scuffing from the material on the wheels ).

Child-exclusions from fitness areas reflect that broken bones or worse may occur and may trigger denial of insurance coverage after some loss or injury. Using such machinery with a youngster in the room would be worrying for me.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Yeah, I am not trying to be cold and most likely the HOA isn't either. Your kids are 2 years old. They are NOT at an age of which they can safely access "adult" areas. It's like letting a bull loose in a china shop. Not that the kids aren't well behaved or anything like that. You just don't treat 2 year olds as adults and give them free reign. I do not believe it's a "No Play" situation here. It's more of being responsible for the safety of 2 year olds and property. The 2 do not mix. Not even in my own home...

Former HOA President
ArtT5 (Illinois)
Posts: 84
Posted:
The original post said the children are not allowed to use tricycles anywhere outside the unit. In my view that's unreasonable and suggests that the strictness of the rule has to do with the preference of some owners not to see or hear kids playing. Kids ride tricycles on sidewalks all over America. If the tennis courts aren't a good place for this activity the Board has to allow it somewhere else.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
DannyF Cal: To be fair many young children are well behaved & may be well supervised while learning to play tennis.

But some tennis players would have a tough time trying to play but worrying about those NOT undergoing supervised instruction, by random cycling, or being disrupted by play noise. It may be very hard for some to even get time oncourt to play without those worries.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ArtT5 on 04/06/2016 6:05 AM
The original post said the children are not allowed to use tricycles anywhere outside the unit. In my view that's unreasonable and suggests that the strictness of the rule has to do with the preference of some owners not to see or hear kids playing. Kids ride tricycles on sidewalks all over America. If the tennis courts aren't a good place for this activity the Board has to allow it somewhere else.

Art,

Although I'm inclined to agree with you, there are local statutes that prohibit bicycles on sidewalks. Those that do, typically require that the speed of the bicycle is slowed to that of an ordinary walk when pedestrians are present. They also require that the bicyclist yield to pedestrians.

Granted, those laws aren't normally enforced. However, they do exist.

Therefore, it might not be considered unreasonable to limit the use of sidewalks to pedestrians.

Here is a link I located about Bicycle Laws from the League of American Bicyclists:

http://bikeleague.org/StateBikeLaws
ArtT5 (Illinois)
Posts: 84
Posted:
Interesting, Tim, and a useful link, but I'm not bicycle restrictions would apply to kids using tricycles.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
the difference between a bicycle and tricycle is only the number of tires. They all come in different sizes.

Again, as I posted, I'm inclined to agree with you that the group in charge simply don't want to bothered by children.

I was simply pointing out a different perspective and providing supporting documentation for that perspective.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 04/06/2016 7:48 AM
the difference between a bicycle and tricycle is only the number of tires.

What about speed and stability?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Danny of CA didn't write that the toys aren't allowed on sidewalks. There's an exception at our condo HOA for bicycles that may be ridden from the bike storage rooms in the underground parking levels to the kiosk exit gate.

We still, in fact, have no idea what Danny's HOA's covenants or rules state. We only know what Danny claims his PM told him. Perhaps he doesn't have time to reply to questions? Or perhaps he's left us...

We simply don't allow any skateboards, bikes or similar wheeled devices in our interior or exterior common areas. Makes no difference how old the user is.

A teenaged girl visiting her dad for the holidays tried out her inline skates in the area surrounding the pool. Someone called security, who came and she took off the skates. She was lurching around very near the glass fence that surrounds the pool area.

An adult male tried to ride his Segway though our lobby.

We visited a resort condo complex with some young relatives. The furnished condo had tennis rackets & tennis balls, which the kids took to the court. They hadn't brought tennis shoes as normally they wouldn't be needed in this seaside area. They soon returned from tennis saying that people had yelled a them saying bare feet aren't allowed on the courts.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 04/06/2016 8:46 AM
. . . We visited a resort condo complex with some young relatives. The furnished condo had tennis rackets & tennis balls, which the kids took to the court. They hadn't brought tennis shoes as normally they wouldn't be needed in this seaside area. They soon returned from tennis saying that people had yelled a them saying bare feet aren't allowed on the courts.

As Andre Agassi & others joked, 'LOVE' means nothing to a tennis player. There are possibilities of both barefoot injuries & body oils that may be absorbed by hardcourt surfaces . . .
BanksS
Posts: 403
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DannyF on 04/05/2016 1:20 PM
I leave in a 400+ condominium complex with 3 swimming pools and 4 tennis courts that are used at best 10% of the times. The building manager gave us a letter stating that our two years old twins can not use their tri cycles in the balcony, in common areas, any where outside the unit and we were even told that they can not even use the tri cycles in the tennis court because it would scratch the paint. We were even be told not to bring the toddlers to the Recreation room because it is not safe for them. When I asked the management office if there are any places designated for kids to play the response was basically no where and if I wanted I can bring this up in a board meeting.

anyone has suggestions as what can be done or how to deal the management office?

Since you have 4 tennis courts that are used only about 10% of the time can one of the courts be turned into a play area for kids? Are there other kids in your condo that would benefit from a play area? I would suspect there is since you state it's a 400+ complex. Just a thought.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Yes, Bob, I do get it that barefeet can create problem on tennis courts. I'm not disagreeing with the rule of that resort community.

Bands has a good idea--why not have a lot of Owners petition the Board to have one court turned into a play area? I know of a few HOAs in desert areas not too far from us who've gotten rid of tennis courts dues to lack of use.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 04/06/2016 7:51 AM
Posted By TimB4 on 04/06/2016 7:48 AM
the difference between a bicycle and tricycle is only the number of tires.

What about speed and stability?

Have you never seen a recumbent 2 front wheel trike doing 35+ mph ?

I have personally been clocked at42.4

On my Bianchi 'bi' I have hit (unofficially) 68 )

A long time ago, in a land far far away.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 04/09/2016 5:20 PM
Posted By NpS on 04/06/2016 7:51 AM
Posted By TimB4 on 04/06/2016 7:48 AM
the difference between a bicycle and tricycle is only the number of tires.

What about speed and stability?


Have you never seen a recumbent 2 front wheel trike doing 35+ mph ?

I have personally been clocked at42.4

On my Bianchi 'bi' I have hit (unofficially) 68 )

A long time ago, in a land far far away.

And stability?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
I, personally, have never gone down accidentally.

The faster one goes, the more stable the machine becomes.

Think gyroscope.

however

I see your point.

for the OP:

Any rule you need should be similar to:

No xxxxx permitted at yyyyyy location.

eg. Bare feet, xxxxx, or yyyyy PROHIBITTED at tennis courts.

NEVER mention age unless strictly permitted or required by state or local law, such as' no unsupervised children under 12 permitted in pool area'.

You may NOT say: No children between 12:00 and 2:00 at the pool

You MAY say: Lap swimming only between 12:00 and 2:00 at the pool

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