Dog Bites - Contact Animal Control or not?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

All,

So not to sideline Jims thread, I propose the following:

Expect that the Association has covenants and rules about aggressive animals and bites.

1) If bitten by dog, should the victim contact animal control at all (why or why not)?

2) If bitten by a dog, should the victim be required to contact animal control prior to seeking redress for a violation from the Association (again, why or why not)?

I'm actually having this discussion with some on my Board.
A fresh perceptive would be helpful.

There are no right or wrong answers. Simply opinions, backed up with reasons from your perspective.

Thank you.

MichelleK5 (New York)
Posts: 161

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 04/03/2016 1:53 PM
All,

So not to sideline Jims thread, I propose the following:

Expect that the Association has covenants and rules about aggressive animals and bites.

1) If bitten by dog, should the victim contact animal control at all (why or why not)?

2) If bitten by a dog, should the victim be required to contact animal control prior to seeking redress for a violation from the Association (again, why or why not)?

I'm actually having this discussion with some on my Board.
A fresh perceptive would be helpful.

There are no right or wrong answers. Simply opinions, backed up with reasons from your perspective.

Thank you.

1. I think it depends on the situation- too many variables.
2. Yes, and it should be done immediately- not a few hours or a day later. Without having a legal record of the events, it's all hearsay.

But at the same time, I think if you're amending your CC&Rs, then take all mention of pets/dogs/animals out of it. Let it be handled between the parties involved.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Thanks Michelle.

I understand you saying that, in the case of animal bites, the choice to call animal control is the victim. However the Association should not become involved in the situation unless animal control is called.

We are not amending the CC&Rs. We are amending our policy resolution to clarify the CC&Rs and amend the rules for our common area.

MichelleK5 (New York)
Posts: 161

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 04/03/2016 2:38 PM
Thanks Michelle.

I understand you saying that, in the case of animal bites, the choice to call animal control is the victim. However the Association should not become involved in the situation unless animal control is called.

We are not amending the CC&Rs. We are amending our policy resolution to clarify the CC&Rs and amend the rules for our common area.

Yes exactly.

If the person bit doesn't find it important enough to call animal control, then why should the board do anything? It's all hearsay.

When Animal Control is contacted, they come in, take reports from all parties involved, take pictures and then decide what should be done. The HOA can then at least make a decision based on what they recommend.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

We had 2 dogs attacked by a loose dog. The dog did NOT belong in our neighborhood. The attack happened on the sidewalk outside our HOA along the road in front of it. Both of the dogs that were attacked were on leashes by one of our members. Unfortunately, one of the dogs died. The other one lived.

The first thing I did was call animal control to make a report. Our HOA is not responsible for dog bites/attacks or anything else pet related. We called the authorities to handle it. Plus if that person chose to sue, the court will want to know if animal control was contacted NOT the HOA.

I have 4 dogs. One of which is not exactly a non-biter. So I am very careful about him. He's bitten me and snapped at a kid before. He's NOT doing it intentionally in an attack like manner. He was a formerly abused dog. So if I brush him or someone comes up behind him, he snaps. It took me a year before I would let anyone walk him that wasn't me. The Vet has him on the "Danger" list when he gets treatment. Has to get muzzled.

So I can understand both sides of the issue. I'd be devastated if my dog was removed because he bit someone. Especially considering the situation of which it happened. It would basically be a death warrant for him. It may be best the HOA stays out of such situations and let the professionals/law officials handle it. Otherwise, your going to have an owner claim "The HOA put my dog to death"...

Former HOA President

FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927

Posted:

> ) If bitten by dog, should the victim contact animal control at all (why or why not)?

I think absolutely he should call animal control. Whether the dog is dangerous or not should be determined by animal control.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Melissa,

Thank you for your experience. What would your answer be to my 2 questions?

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

In Jim's situation, the dog that bit was on a leash.

Was the dog stronger than its handler?

Did someone intentionally provoke the dog?

Did something startle the dog and/or the people on the scene?

On these questions, we have no interest in hearing conflicting stories and deciding who to believe.

We are interested in learning whether the dog had some kind of viral disease that triggered the behavior.

So to answer your questions Tim:

1. We would encourage contacting animal control. On a case by case basis, we might even demand it depending on history or other unusual behavior.

2. We aren't going to take any action against the dog. So I'm not sure what kind of redress (other than action by animal control or the police) you would be considering.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 04/03/2016 1:53 PM
All,

So not to sideline Jims thread, I propose the following:

Expect that the Association has covenants and rules about aggressive animals and bites.

1) If bitten by dog, should the victim contact animal control at all (why or why not)?

2) If bitten by a dog, should the victim be required to contact animal control prior to seeking redress for a violation from the Association (again, why or why not)?

I'm actually having this discussion with some on my Board.
A fresh perceptive would be helpful.

There are no right or wrong answers. Simply opinions, backed up with reasons from your perspective.

Thank you.

1) ABSOLUTELY

2) YES

We had a dog bite a 92 year old resident. She was reluctant to report the bite. I encouraged her to do so to limit the property's liBility.

After reported is was discovered this same dog had bitten another person. This time it had been a K9 police officer.
The animal control officer would have records of prior attacks.
And if the HOA were aware and allowed this threat to remain my guess they would risk liability.

BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002

Posted:

Tim B4 Va : it will be interesting to see the state by state range of answers. Are the least responsible dog-owners likely those without insurance nor up to date vaccinations ?

Respectfully it's worth also throwing into the hat, injuries other than bites & injuries to other animals.

Also the need to put corporation insurers on early notice, and whether governance documents should require proof of up-to-date vaccination (rabies etc; management burdens to document).

In 2014 a clever judge in my jurisdiction struck down a motion by a condo corporation to summarily remove itself ( from being a joint & several defendant ) from a civil lawsuit by an elderly owner whose hip was broken by a merely exuberant dog in the common elements.

The judge struck down one defence that dog injuries were instead specifically addressed by near-strict or near absolute liability, imposed by another Act on the owner/handler of the dog. ( I believe many US states have such a degree of strict or near-absolute liability without a prior bite nor known propensity of aggression need being shown ).

Bearing the burden of a statutory "deemed occupiers liability' exposure regardless of any local site-specific governance documents, this particular condo corporation was ordered to continue as a co-defendant. The final outcome of the claim is unknown & of course may be inapplicable where the bite is within a unit boundary, occupiers liability is not 'deemed' by law, or state by state.

Not discussed at all were any parallels of commercial host liability eg motels, nor landlord liability ( outright ownership of common use area ) that might be ? higher ?

Still left of course is what to do about "knowledge" of a dangerous or uncontrolled dog or other animal. . . Should be interesting comments to come . . .

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Thank you Fred.

What is your opinion of Question 2?
Should they be required to report prior to the HOA/COA being involved?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Thanks Np.

If I understand you correctly, the victim should may make up their own mind regarding contacting animal control. The HOA should not have any rules regarding pets, hence a bite (be it on common area or not) is not the HOA's issue. Thus making the second question mute.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Thanks Bob.

Always interesting reading in your posts.
Do you have an opinion on my two questions?

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 04/04/2016 4:47 AM
Thanks Np.

If I understand you correctly, the victim should may make up their own mind regarding contacting animal control. The HOA should not have any rules regarding pets, hence a bite (be it on common area or not) is not the HOA's issue. Thus making the second question mute.

I'm not saying that HOAs shouldn't have rules. I'm saying that pet rules are usually difficult to enforce. I'm not interested in promoting false expectations.

To me, calling animal control is like calling the police. We rarely initiate the call. People know to make the call if they want an official record written up or some kind of official action taken.

We know that the official record is usually a description of what people said about the event and maybe a picture of the injury. Nice for taking to court, but that's not us.

If animal control or the police take official action, we're happy to rely on their knowledge, expertise, and decisions on appropriate intervention. That's what they're there for. That's why we work hard to maintain good relations with them.

When these disputes/infractions come up, the first thing that comes to mind is: "What would happen here if there wasn't an HOA? Is this a problem for the neighborhood or the individuals?" To me, a dog that bites is like a kid who throw rocks at windows. Generally speaking, neighbors need to figure out how to get along. Sure we can have guidelines that we think they should follow - But it's not our job to make them good neighbors. We have no problem sending a letter based on a complaint, but usually that's where I think our role ends. Exceptional events will crop up, and we'll deal with them on a case by case basis.

Re your second question, I asked what kind of redress you were thinking about. If neither animal control nor the police are going to take official action, then what role do you think the board has to play Tim?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

BanksS
Posts: 403

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 04/03/2016 1:53 PM
All,

So not to sideline Jims thread, I propose the following:

Expect that the Association has covenants and rules about aggressive animals and bites.

1) If bitten by dog, should the victim contact animal control at all (why or why not)?

2) If bitten by a dog, should the victim be required to contact animal control prior to seeking redress for a violation from the Association (again, why or why not)?

I'm actually having this discussion with some on my Board.
A fresh perceptive would be helpful.

There are no right or wrong answers. Simply opinions, backed up with reasons from your perspective.

Thank you.

In my rural home there is no animal control but one can call the County Sheriff. A few years ago I called the County Sheriff about my neighbor's dog who is as large as a small pony. This dog is allowed to roam my rural neighborhood at will. One day when I was outside my home on my own property with my leashed dog, the neighbor's dog came up to my dog and started sniffing at my dog as dogs do . It was not being aggressive but my dog in his excitement wound my arm around the leash and then I lost my balance and about fell to the to the ground. Thankfully I was able to stay upright. I did not get hurt except for a rope type burn on my arm where the leash wrapped around it. I was pretty angry so I called the County Sheriff. The Sheriff asked me if I live in a home owner,s association. I said yes and he stated that it was their responsibility to enforce dog rules as in my rural county there are no leash laws. Talk about frustrating. My husband tried to speak to the dog's owner and got no where. His answer was he had lived there 16 years and there had never been a problem with his dog before.

I made peace with it and have come to like the dog but he does like to pee on everything in my yard and has even done this on my pant leg, bags of mulch I was going to place down and into my garage to pee on my car tires. It is a nuisance but rather than cause more friction in my neighborhood, I put up with it.

To answer your questions Tim, in most situations with a dog bite I would call animal control or the sheriff whatever is available where you live immediately and let them takea report. The second question I would say the victim should be required to call animal control before seeking redress for a violation to the .Association. Go with local governmental authority first. I'm not saying not to let the Association know about it but let them know then tha Board can decide how to proceed. Each situation is unique and some address dog issues in their docs and others do not.

JimR24 (Texas)
Posts: 399

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 04/03/2016 1:53 PM
All,

So not to sideline Jims thread, I propose the following:

Expect that the Association has covenants and rules about aggressive animals and bites.

1) If bitten by dog, should the victim contact animal control at all (why or why not)?

2) If bitten by a dog, should the victim be required to contact animal control prior to seeking redress for a violation from the Association (again, why or why not)?

I'm actually having this discussion with some on my Board.
A fresh perceptive would be helpful.

There are no right or wrong answers. Simply opinions, backed up with reasons from your perspective.

Thank you.

(1) Given our recent experience - and given that the incident was formally reported to our Association - (and in consideration of those seeking direction from the wording in our governing document)...it appears that we had no choice other than to enforce our interpretation of the wording of our documents. In this case, a contact with animal control would have been a mute issue - because of the tight restrictions of our DCC&R. In my opinion, a reasonable rewrite of our DCC&R would include the involvement of animal control.

(2) From our recent experience, it would have been very helpful (and to me, very reasonable) if our governing documents required the victim to contact animal control prior to seeking redress for a violation from the Association.

Excellent questions Tim. Thanks for asking!

oljim, in texas

Lovin' life with my honey!
and, President of HOA in Texas

BanksS
Posts: 403

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BanksS on 04/04/2016 6:14 AM

Posted By TimB4 on 04/03/2016 1:53 PM
All,

So not to sideline Jims thread, I propose the following:

Expect that the Association has covenants and rules about aggressive animals and bites.

1) If bitten by dog, should the victim contact animal control at all (why or why not)?

2) If bitten by a dog, should the victim be required to contact animal control prior to seeking redress for a violation from the Association (again, why or why not)?

I'm actually having this discussion with some on my Board.
A fresh perceptive would be helpful.

There are no right or wrong answers. Simply opinions, backed up with reasons from your perspective.

Thank you.

In my rural home there is no animal control but one can call the County Sheriff. A few years ago I called the County Sheriff about my neighbor's dog who is as large as a small pony. This dog is allowed to roam my rural neighborhood at will. One day when I was outside my home on my own property with my leashed dog, the neighbor's dog came up to my dog and started sniffing at my dog as dogs do . It was not being aggressive but my dog in his excitement wound my arm around the leash and then I lost my balance and about fell to the to the ground. Thankfully I was able to stay upright. I did not get hurt except for a rope type burn on my arm where the leash wrapped around it. I was pretty angry so I called the County Sheriff. The Sheriff asked me if I live in a home owner,s association. I said yes and he stated that it was their responsibility to enforce dog rules as in my rural county there are no leash laws. Talk about frustrating. My husband tried to speak to the dog's owner and got no where. His answer was he had lived there 16 years and there had never been a problem with his dog before.

I made peace with it and have come to like the dog but he does like to pee on everything in my yard and has even done this on my pant leg, bags of mulch I was going to place down and into my garage to pee on my car tires. It is a nuisance but rather than cause more friction in my neighborhood, I put up with it.

To answer your questions Tim, in most situations with a dog bite I would call animal control or the sheriff whatever is available where you live immediately and let them takea report. The second question I would say the victim should be required to call animal control before seeking redress for a violation to the .Association. Go with local governmental authority first. I'm not saying not to let the Association know about it but let them know then tha Board can decide how to proceed. Each situation is unique and some address dog issues in their docs and others do not.

Should have Added there are no rules about pets in our docs. The Association doesn't get involved in issues like this. The board only handles common element maintenance in my HOA. I would hope that the County Sheriff would respond when personal injury is involved particularly a dog bite. In my neighborhood it is a neighbor to neighbor issue.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Yes one should ALWAYS contact Animal control when bitten by an animal. Especially if you want your insurance or lawsuit to pay out. It doesn't mean the animal will be put down because you contact them either. That usually happens only in cases of dogs already on record or on the "vicious breed" list. Most of the time Animal Control just records it and makes the owner of the offending dog take steps to prevent it from happening again. Plus most likely a proof of rabies or isolation to prove it's not rabid. Unfortunately, those who may own Pit Bulls, Dobermans, or Rottweiler may have additional steps. It depends on your local laws in regards to animals not necessarily your HOA's rules.

I watch allot of People's court and see many dog bite cases. The court tends to weigh heavily on if the victim reported the situation to the Animal control. It's the same as making a police report. Many that don't take this step don't win their cases. The court don't like having hearsay to decide on and prefer Animal Control involvement.

Remember animals are considered "PROPERTY". They fall under the Property laws. It's their OWNER's behavior/actions that fall under "CIVIL" issues. That includes if you take your dog to a dog park to play off-leash. Your dog and another dog get into a fight. The blame/responsibility is on the dogs at this point because they are dogs. Both owners took on the risk. Someone gets bit breaking it up, it's part of the risk as an owner you put both parties in. I was surprised to learn this myself recently. Dog parks have different laws one may want to research before taking their dog to one. Each state/local area may have different laws in regards to Dog parks.

The HOA should refer the resident to the Animal Control if the resident wants action taken. The HOA may have rules about such things but actual enforcement takes officials. One doesn't place a lien or foreclosure in a HOA without going to the court/lawyers. Why then doesn't the HOA go to Animal Control when it's an Animal issue?

Former HOA President

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

2 POTENTIAL CONVERSATIONS:

1. THE 2-TRIP SOLUTION:

HO: His dog bit me.
HOA: Did you contact animal control?
HO: Not yet.
HOA: If you contact animal control, they can check the dog out.
HO: Ok, but what are you going to do about it?
HOA: Well, we really can't do anything until animal control investigates.
HO CONTACTS ANIMAL CONTROL.
HO: Ok, I went to animal control. The dog's been tested. Now what are you going to do about it?
HOA: ????

OR

2. THE 1-TRIP SOLUTION:

HO: His dog bit me.
HOA: Did you contact animal control?
HO: Not yet.
HOA: If you contact animal control, they can check the dog out.
HO: Ok, but what are you going to do about it?
HOA: If animal control says the dog's ok, then there's really nothing for us to do. We can send a letter to the dog owner. Would you like us to do that.

I always prefer the 1-trip solution. Fewer reasons for antagonism between HO and HOA.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

2 POTENTIAL CONVERSATIONS:

1. THE 2-TRIP SOLUTION:

HO: His dog bit me.
HOA: Did you contact animal control?
HO: Not yet.
HOA: If you contact animal control, they can check the dog out.
HO: Ok, but what are you going to do about it?
HOA: Well, we really can't do anything until animal control investigates.
HO CONTACTS ANIMAL CONTROL.
HO: Ok, I went to animal control. The dog's been tested. Now what are you going to do about it?
HOA: ????

OR

2. THE 1-TRIP SOLUTION:

HO: His dog bit me.
HOA: Did you contact animal control?
HO: Not yet.
HOA: If you contact animal control, they can check the dog out.
HO: Ok, but what are you going to do about it?
HOA: If animal control says the dog's ok, then there's really nothing for us to do. We can send a letter to the dog owner. Would you like us to do that.

I always prefer the 1-trip solution. Fewer reasons for antagonism between HO and HOA.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002

Posted:

Posted By TimB4 . . . 1:53 PM

TimB4 Without being aware of prior direct legal outcomes my answers /guesses are

YES : "(1) If bitten by dog, should the victim contact ANIMAL CONTROL at all (why or why not)?"

Rationale might include :

A The ONLY reliable documentation about rabies/other innoculations, may be what an animal control officer and or police may have a right & power to physically obtain & verify.

They - as oppose to management - would have the skillsets & resources to track & dare confront the dog owner/handler and if necessary to order seizure of the animal for quarantine.

At stake immediately for a dog bite victim, would be likely having to undergo painful & expensive rabies vaccinations ( used to be into the gut ) or else possibly to die a horrible death of hydrophobia. proven up-to-date vaccination of the dog might avoid such.

B Reality TV arbitration - eg psychoJudge Judy - frequently resolves contradictory allegations/defences by challenging what the claimant did thereafter. A 3rd party complaint may help corroborate.

The prudent genuine victim response would likeliest be to direct alert civil authorities & work out the rabies risk. Not so prudent to rely on trying to checking out governance documents / onsite records of vaccinations etc

C Through police / animal control response , does an injured victim -maybe in shock - owe a strictly legal duty to alert other potential victims ? Not clear. At least the police /animal control themselves might.

NO : " (2) If bitten by a dog, should the victim be required to contact ANIMAL CONTROL PRIOR TO seeking redress for a violation from the Association ( again, why or why not)? "

Does this invite a civil defence ? Should lack of victim notice to this 3rd party animal control/police, itself bar or impair later civil redress against the HOA/condo association ?

Rationale might include :

A - Victims might be in shock, may be incapable of understanding the complexities of the HOA / condo issues , and will later carry the ultimate burden of proof anyway against defendants anyway.

Passing by a downtown highrise, a pedestrian is injured by one of the dozens of high tech glass panels randomly hurtling onto the downtown streets.

Should the owners of that building be allowed to escape their own consequences ( of chosing, having installed & monitoring that cladding )simply because a victim in shock later cannot prove they met a technical burden of adequate timely notice to 3rd party authorities that met a statutory limitation period ?

Being such a victim might change some attitudes. Not 3rd party notice, but it can be notorious that victims of municipal negligence under outrageously short term deadlines might face ultra-short deadlines to alert the municipality itself. Regained consciousness in hospital and understood had eg 7 days to issue proven adequate Notice ? An injury or property damage may scramble their brains/disrupt life. But out of the blue they have to know municipal limitations laws that may be stacked against victims ?

B "We needed to identify & move against vicious dogs".

Maybe there is such a legal duty on the condo/HOA.

But I disagree with using any 3rd party notice or late 3rd party notice or inadequate 3rd party notice, to try to bar a claim against the condo/HOA. And by what date would the victim have to prove adequate notice ?

I would see condo/HOAs as far less worthy of this type of defence and less easy to prove identified / adequately notified.

As you note Tim B4 there may be no clear right nor wrong answer. I don't think attack victims need more burdens.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

In our case here in NY the animal control officer would not take a report from a third party ie the HOA.

Without a report it would not have been possible to pursue court action in this matter.

In our case the bite went through the victim's hand out the other side.

To attempt to limit any liability to the HOA I encouraged the dog bite victim to report the dog. They did the court upon learning this same animal had bitten at least one other person, in fact a police officer ordered a minimum distance from others when walking, a muzzle when walking on common property.

In in NY one consideration as to liability is notice. The HOA being made aware a dangerous situation or threat existed. In our case once notified about this attack any future attacks might be used to bring the HOA in as co- defendants. We had to do whatever possible to address this animal.

IF the HOA is make aware, does nothing to address this it might risk the payment of damages in any future incidents.

Not would be a failure to protect the HOA in my opinion.

FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927

Posted:

> Thank you Fred.

> What is your opinion of Question 2?
> Should they be required to report prior to the HOA/COA being involved?

Since you asked- I think they should be required to report first.

The HOA is reasonably well equipped to deal with complaints about unleashed or misbehaving dogs. A bite goes beyond misbehavior. I suppose I would make the analogy to a complaint about loud music vs. a complaint about physical assault.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Jon -
Are you saying that HOA has obligation to contact animal control? But you also said that animal control will not take a report from HOA.

I understand that HOA can be made a co-defendant. But anyone can sue anyone. What exactly do you think the HOA is supposed to do when a bite happens?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

MichelleK5 (New York)
Posts: 161

Posted:

Tim- is yours a condo or stand alone homes? I ask because in my HOA, the streets (well one dead end street) is not part of our common area- it's the towns. So if a dog bite, or any injury for that matter took place on that street, my HOA would not be liable.

In our common areas (pool, tennis court) there are signs posted that specify no pets as well as the other rules. The only common area dogs are allowed in is an enclosed area on the lake, and on trails.

But mine is a very small HOA (35-40 homes) and people don't generally break the "common sense" rules.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I once got a call from a homeowner who wanted us to pay for their dog escaping out of the fence. In our HOA you can have a fenced in back yard. It has to be locked if you do not want lawncare to enter. Have to unlock it if you do. One day a lawncare person went to mow their yard and the dog escaped. The Homeowner wanted the HOA to pay for the dog. (I believe it may have ran out on the busy road and was killed). They wanted the HOA to pay them $400 for the cost of the dog they paid for 6 months prior.

I was no longer President nor part of the HOA at this point. They had old POC information. My reaction was what kind of owner are you that you want the money back for the dog than caring about what happened to the dog??? Really you wanted the cash for the dog? Which we were NOT responsible for. The owner left the dog in the back yard unlocked fence. If anyone was "responsible" it would have been the lawncare insurance.

On this note... What if that dog had gotten loose and then bit someone? The lawncare person? Should not animal control be contacted number 1 for a loose dog and 2 for the bite? Why would one call the HOA on this matter? All we can do is put out a warning saying this dog may be dangerous and animal control is handling it.

BTW... I just remembered something that happened to me and my dogs as President. We had a renter who had a German Shepard mixed dog. It often got loose and had no collar at times. I was walking my dogs when it came up the road. I was able to run into my house and close the door before it attacked me. Unfortunately, my 2 dogs were NOT so lucky... In my hurry and dragging them out of danger, the door closed on their leashes!!! All I could see is my leashes going up and down the door and hearing intense barking on the other side!!! My choice was to open the door to get my dogs in but at the same time that dog was there. The dog had no collar and was known history of being vicious. Luckily, the owner showed up in time. Had just made the choice to open the door to save my dogs and get the dog away. My dogs were shaken and a bit stirred...

I did not call animal control on this. The dog owner was in the process of being evicted by their landlord. However, I did pass the word along to watch out for this dog. That if someone saw it to quickly leave that it had potential to be dangerous. Plus call animal control if at all possible. This was an animal control issue. I also let them know where the dog lived if they did call me. That way they could contact the owner directly.

Former HOA President

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

I would say always call animal control first, whether you know the dog’s owner or not, so that should take care of both your questions. Before the association gets involved, I prefer that neighbors try to resolve problems between themselves – the association should only get involved if there are several complaints from several homeowners, which I think was mentioned in the previous post.

I don’t know if animal control keeps track of owners with problem dogs – if so, this may be a great way to determine if the board needs to get involved. Here’s a link to an information page from a personal injury attorney on what to do if you’re bitten by a dog – this can also help with setting your policy. http://dogbitelaw.com/what-to-do-after-dog-bite/the-first-things-to-do-after-being-bitten

This site also discussed what to say (or not) if the dog owner’s insurance company calls the victim for more information – you may want to contact your association master insurance carrier for additional guidance on setting a policy.

In our community the only incident I can think of involving problem dogs concerned the tenant of a board member who would dig a hole underneath the patio fence (dilapidated wooden thing) and then run around raising hell. I don’t think it bit anyone, but once frightened a neighbor so badly that she stayed in her car for about a half hour until the owner came out to get the dog.
This same critter had been the subject of other calls to animal control and at one point, they took the dog, but the owner got him back. I don’t know the details of those incidents, but the one I mentioned above resulted in the landlord/homeowner (another board member) and a few other neighbors blessing the other landlord out during the resident forum at another board meeting. In the end, the tenant moved out and the owner/landlord found he and the dog and whoever else lived in there had utterly trashed the place. Karma is a bitch, ain’t it?

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Michelle,

I am in a 130 lot town home HOA (not a condominium).

Ownership of each home and lot is fee simple (they own it all and maintain it all).
All streets, parking areas, sidewalks, playgrounds and common area between homes are controlled and maintained by the Association.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NpS on 04/04/2016 7:23 AM

1. THE 2-TRIP SOLUTION:

OR

2. THE 1-TRIP SOLUTION:

I always prefer the 1-trip solution. Fewer reasons for antagonism between HO and HOA.

Hi Np.

Good comment.

Our rewrite does specify what the Association can do to help remedy the situation.They are written as options, which allows the Board to be a bit flexible depending on circumstances.

Tim

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Shelia,

That is an interesting link. I'm going to explore it further.

Thanks

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Was a rule/regulation explicitly violated by the dog bite incident?

If no, it's not the HOA's business.

If there is a "dangerous dog" rule, who makes the determination? I'm not going to take that on as a board member. If they want to pursue it through civil channels and the board is notified, fine.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

Hi Tim,

This issue could be dependent on local/state laws more than HOA rules, so I'll speak for my experience in NC where we have a community dog park and worked with the city on rules for it to limit liability (which our insurance company DOES NOT consider a liability and doesn't charge extra on our property insurance).

Dogs in NC are considered property of their human owners and, as such, the dog owner is personally liable for their dog's behavior. To protect dog owners, there is a basic rule called "First Bite is Free" for an otherwise non-aggressive dog who's shown no such behavior, or hasn't been reported, in the past.

The process is regulated by police ultimately and, in our one bite incident, the police handled the problem bureaucratically.

1. The bitten victim must report the incident to police
2. The police create a file on the dog owner and the dog if it's the first bite. (not sure how "dangerous breeds" are handled)
3. The dog can be legally regulated as to its interaction with others (the onus falling on the owner)
4. On the SECOND bite, the dog owner is then personally liable.

The HOA, at least here, isn't liable because "dogs are property" and animal control laws easily supercede any HOA rules that a board could pass, including laws granting immunity or liability for dog bites. Besides, the HOA or its directors can't reasonably regulate when a person walks a dog, and dogs in condos must be walked a few times daily for restroom purposes.

Summary: The property liability issue rests with the biting dog's owner......the dog is property in NC. Our HOA, with its dog park, was required to post rules and that covered us per the city and our insurer.

JimR24 (Texas)
Posts: 399

Posted:

Very thoughtful observations Kelly - thanks for posting!

oljim, in texas

Lovin' life with my honey!
and, President of HOA in Texas

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

A quick search finds many articles regarding dog issues in HOAs.

http://www.brentadams.com/blog/is-my-hoa-liable-for-dog-bite.cfm

Seems the NC lawyer on this site suggests that in fact HOAs can face liability under certain circumstances.

If the property is made aware that a threat exists and takes no action to remove or control,any future threat I would be concerned the HOA might be named as a co-defendant in any legal action.

My suggestion in order to determine the proper procedure on your property, in your state best to seek professional legal advice as to liability issues rather than accept as fact the information provided on sites such as this.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

My thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread.