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MaryW16 (Colorado)
Posts: 1
Posted:
We got a new property manager a few years ago who has a very strong personality and is very dominating in our operations. When the new manager was hired we also elected a new board president who was very easily persuaded by the property managers opinions and direction. For the first few years, the president and property manager made a lot of decisions on their own without discussing with the rest of the board. That president has since resigned though she continues to work with the Board on some issues. The new president is new to the community and also seems to take significant direction from the property manager - with the two of them doing a lot of work behind the scenes - for example, some downspout work was done that no one else on the board approved or was aware of until the work was done.
Recently, the property manager acting alone, had our landscapers remove some downed tree limbs after a snow storm. We (some homeowners and a board member) had planned on picking up the limbs ourselves because our city has a free curbside limb pickup next week. The property managers contract only allows him to initiate work under emergency situations so long as the cost does not exceed $500. None of the downed limbs were a hazard and we could have easily done it ourselves. All board members were contacted and none of them gave the approval to hire someone to clean up the downed limbs.
This work will cost us approximately $1,000-2,000.
There is only one board member that will stand up to this property manager. The other board members are very timid.
Do we have the right to make the property manager pay for this bill since he did not have the authority to initiate this work?
How do we (as homeowners) take control if the board is too timid to take control?
Important considerations:
I was on the board for 10 years and am very familiar with the community. Most homeowners are older and pay no attention to what the board does so getting a petition to remove the manager or board members likely won't happen. Myself and two other board members are acutely aware that this property manager is out of control but the rest of the board is too timid to do anything - there are a total of five board members.
Any advice?????
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
because:

Most homeowners are older and pay no attention to what the board does so getting a petition to remove the manager or board members likely won't happen.


you have 3 choices,

1 Wait until the next election and hope for the best

2 Seek legal advice and be prepared to spend $$$$$$$

3 Move

plus

OMG the manager removed downed tree limbs, the horror, the horror
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
What PITA said. I agree the property manager should eat the cost because the work wasn't properly authorized, although I might be more concerned about larger expenses - picking up the limbs is something you may want the property manager to do, as it's a basic part of maintenance. That being said, if you have a timid board, they need to go. Unfortunately for you, the real problem is homeowner apathy. Homeowners ultimately keep board members on their toes and if they're too lazy to assert themselves for whatever reason, they deserve what they get.

Your governing documents should explain how board members are elected or recalled - pull them out and start reading. Next, walk around the neighborhood and chat up your neighbors about what you've learned. Perhaps the prospect of paying $1,000-$2000 for work the board didn't authorize but was done by a rouge property manager will wake up enough of them. Then, ALL OF YOU need to march to the next board meeting and demand answers.

Hopefully, that'll prompt the other board members to grow a pair - if not, pay close attention to how the community is run, because there may be other unnecessary expenses this property manager creates for the association and all of you.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
Is a motion required for action over a certain amount?

This manager must follow a budget developed by the Board (I hope) If that property manager chooses to spend $1,000 for picking up limbs, then that is charged against the budget. The Board should see a Y-T-D expenditures vs. budget produced by the property manager every month.

(BTW - THAT $1,000 must have included the cleanup AND haul-away for all limbs. That's no small amount. It doesn't sound like it was something a group of volunteers could do)
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Mary,

No, I do not think that the PM should pay for the removal.
The reasons why I think this are:

1) You never indicated that the PM was informed of the Boards plans for the limbs. Therefore, it's possible that the PM was unaware of the Boards desires.
2) You indicated that the contract allows the PM to address emergencies. Even with the cost limitations, an argument does exist that fallen limbs after a storm can be an emergency.
3) It's also possible that the PM didn't think that the crew would charge extra or not charge that much. It's also possible that someone on the Board gave permission.

However, I do think that the Board needs to:

1) Review the contract and discuss the issue amongst yourselves (without the PM).
2) Come to a consensus on procedures and what you expect from the PM in the future.
3) Identify a single point of contact (perhaps you) for the PM to liaison with.
4) As a Board, sit down and discuss the issues with the PM and what the Board expects going forward. The single point of contact should lead this portion of the meeting but the entire Board needs to be there to show unity and respond to questions.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 03/30/2016 7:37 AM
Mary,

No, I do not think that the PM should pay for the removal.
The reasons why I think this are:

1) You never indicated that the PM was informed of the Boards plans for the limbs. Therefore, it's possible that the PM was unaware of the Boards desires.
2) You indicated that the contract allows the PM to address emergencies. Even with the cost limitations, an argument does exist that fallen limbs after a storm can be an emergency.
3) It's also possible that the PM didn't think that the crew would charge extra or not charge that much. It's also possible that someone on the Board gave permission.

However, I do think that the Board needs to:

1) Review the contract and discuss the issue amongst yourselves (without the PM).
2) Come to a consensus on procedures and what you expect from the PM in the future.
3) Identify a single point of contact (perhaps you) for the PM to liaison with.
4) As a Board, sit down and discuss the issues with the PM and what the Board expects going forward. The single point of contact should lead this portion of the meeting but the entire Board needs to be there to show unity and respond to questions.

Well said.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
MaryW16 stated "Recently, the property manager acting alone, had our landscapers remove some downed tree limbs after a snow storm. We (some homeowners and a board member) had planned on picking up the limbs ourselves because our city has a free curbside limb pickup next week. The property managers contract only allows him to initiate work under emergency situations so long as the cost does not exceed $500. None of the downed limbs were a hazard and we could have easily done it ourselves. All board members were contacted and none of them gave the approval to hire someone to clean up the downed limbs."

Your post raised several questions:
1) Did all of the Board members immediately reply to the manager advising that they would handle the downed tree limbs? Or does "none gave approval" mean they provided no response or no prompt response.

2) Downed (and hanging broken)tree limbs can result in injury. The tree damage was common in the Denver area after the major snow storm a week ago. Most of the homeowners were at work on Friday when a contractor for our HOA removed the broken and downed tree limbs.

3) Are you sure the management agreement does not allow the manager discretion in this situation? If the manager does not act promptly they may be liable for any injury caused by the tree limbs.

4) The City would probablly require the tree limbs to be cut up into 4 foot lengths. Your HOA may be fortunate enough to have volunteers who are available, willing, and qualified to trim the downed limbs, the broken limbs, and the tree branches were the limbs broke off. Meanwhile, the Board should only use volunteers to do work for the HOA who are insured in case there is an injury to themselves or to others.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Here in NY $1,000 - $2,000 of tree work is quite a bit more than a few limbs to clean up.

And without notification from the board as to how this group of volunteers plans to address this the MC took action and had the debris cleared.

I am sorry, but according to the OP there are two sitting board members who need to speak up and express their concerns. Rather then critique after the fact.

Do you really want volunteers cutting downed tree limbs with chain saws? Tree work is listed as one of the most dangerous occupations. injuries are common. And whose insurance do you think will cover that?

My concern would be what a out of work was done and was the price fair? $1,000-$2,000 is quite a range. And here we would not have our landscaper clear up limbs of any size. Rather we use a tree service for such jobs.

For $1,500 they would cut up, chip and remove a large amount of limbs.

You either take on the role of making decisions or you give that role to the MC. You don't sit back until after the dust clears and then question why things were done a certain way.

I doubt the MC is a mind reader.

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