💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

JamesC32 (California)
Posts: 20
Posted:
Our Board recently received a complaint from a tenant about noise from late night music. The bylaws have a specific clause outlining Quiet Hours, the times of day they are in force, and examples of the kind of noise that is not permitted.

The tenant was notified that the Board could not accept his complaint, and that it had to come from the owner. Tenant was also told his name would be used in complaint when the owner with music noise was notified.

The tenant is reluctant to give his name because of possible harassment, and so withdrew his complaint.

This Board is not consistent in enforcement of rules, and I've seen this kind of thing happen before. Some tenants and owners have made complaints and had them delivered without names attached; others are told they can file a formal complaint only if their name is attached to it.
The bylaws do not address this named or not named issue. Some owners are told who filed a complaint against them; other owners are simply told 'several owners complained'.

I understand there is more than one issue here. This Board does not follow through consistently. The thing I'm interested in is how other HOAs handle giving names in a complaint, so that owners/tenants feel free to make a complaint when an obvious infraction is happening, but are reluctant to do so because of possible retaliation or harassment.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
We're two condo high rises and our most frequent rules violations are noise nuisances, usually partiers on balconies that disturb several neighbors who complain. Security investigates and corroborates which unit the noise is coming from. The officers phone the unit and visit it too if need and tell the party people to to "take it inside" and quiet down.

Because a rep of our HOA has confirmed the noise & its source, it's the HOA who's complaining. The officers still write an Incident Report to state who complained. and the Owner of the unit where the alleged violation occurs is called to hearing if noises continue on subsequent reported & confirmed occasions after the first violation.

Why, then, would the alleged violator need to know the name of the one(s) who complained?? If the matter was contested and the violating Owner took us to court over the $100 fine, even then I'd think the HOA an officer involved would have to go to court. But this never has happened in the 15 years the buildings have been here.

We certainly do take complaints from renters who we treat equally with Owners in these matters. Why wouldn't we?

It seems to me, James, that your board needs to set a logical system of reporting alleged violations. I agree that anonymous complaints should be ignored, but NOT that named complainer's identities should be revealed to the alleged violators IF there are HOA witnesses, e.g., mgmt. or directors or other staff.

If an residents complains about another resident and the alleged violation cannot be proven, it's then just a neighbor-neghbor dispute & the HOA shouldn't be involved imo.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
James

When a complaint is received we have a BOD member investigate it. If the situation exists, then we have the MC notify the owner thus the MC becomes the "official complainer". When we hired the MC, we made sure they were willing to fill this role.

If the complaint is anonymous, we still investigate it. We do not ignore it.

It is quite common that the complaint, especially noise, no longer exists. If asked what we have done about it we reply (if we know who to reply to) that we investigated and the complaint no longer existed. Of course if anonymous we do not reply as we do not who to reply to....LOL

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
It should not matter whom the complaint comes from.

However, if the complaint can not be independently verified by a Board or Committee member, the complainant must be the "witness" to the event and be willing to say what occurred at hearing.

Additionally, we normally don't respond to complaints of noise, etc. unless a complaint is made by two different lots (which prevents the Association from being involved in personality differences between neighbors).

Since the Association won't do anything, if you are the tenant, contact the police next time. The police won't enforce Association guidelines. However, they will enforce any noise ordinances.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Given the way that Davis-Stirling micromanages everything else, how did they let this slip past?

While it is of no help to James, AZ law requires that the complaining party be identified. Since the complaining party is not limited to owners, I would assume that any owner, tenant, HOA employee, or security person could be the complaining party.

JamesC32 (California)
Posts: 20
Posted:
Our complex is managed by the Board, so using your example, one of the Board members would have to have witnessed the complaint to 'verify' that it exists. This is an area where the inconsistency creeps in.

Another example is that a tenant (not owner) witnessed a dog poop situation, complained about it, was told it had to go through the owner, and that owner never got back to the Board about the complaint. The tenant complained 4 times, and because the owner didn't want to? chose not to? file a complaint with the board, the dog poop continues with no consequences.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JamesC32 on 03/20/2016 2:17 PM
Our complex is managed by the Board, so using your example, one of the Board members would have to have witnessed the complaint to 'verify' that it exists. This is an area where the inconsistency creeps in.

Right.

You make a complaint of noise (while it is happening) and a Board member comes over to your home/unit to verify.

In the instance of not picking up after the dog, there really can not be independent verification from a Board member. Therefore, pictures (ideally video) is best evidence. You could encourage the board to mount game cameras in some problem areas in hopes to identify the individual(s). Of course, you can also set up a camera inside your home.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
'my' ccr's actually REQUIRE that all communications (except emergency) to the bod be in writing and signed
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I noted above that complaints must identify the complainer. But that does NOT mean we give the complainer's name to the alleged violator. We do not need to as we'd take no action UNLESS the complaint is verified.

In your case, James, a board member needs to verify the violation if it's not a police matter. If no directors are willing to enforce your governing documents, that is in deed a sorry state to live with.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
James, where in your documents does it say complaints must come only from Owners? What is the justification for that policy??
JamesC32 (California)
Posts: 20
Posted:
I think it would be an interpretation of our policy of dealing owner to owner. This particular situation hasn't come up to my knowledge, so the detailed parsing of it hasn't happened before.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 03/20/2016 3:12 PM
'my' ccr's actually REQUIRE that all communications (except emergency) to the bod be in writing and signed

As do ours but I would say a BOD that does not investigate things (even if not in writing) is not serving the best interest of their community.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Our policy:

If someone in the community (owner or tenant) complains about X's activity, we sent X an email that says:

"We received a complaint that ..."

We never identify who complained. We don't cite them for an offense. We don't threaten with fines. We just state the nature of the complaint.

95% of the time, that's all that's needed.

We know who our chronic complainers are. We know where there's bad blood. When we're dealing with a "hot" zone, we don't sent an email every time there's a complaint. Not interested in adding fuel to the fire.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JamesC32 (California)
Posts: 20
Posted:
and at what point would an automatic fine kick in if the behavior(s) didn't stop?
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JamesC32 on 03/20/2016 7:48 PM
and at what point would an automatic fine kick in if the behavior(s) didn't stop?

James

Automatic fining in California fining doesn't take place. We have "due process" in which an owner must be brought to hearing prior to any fine being administered.

In your case, if the Board doesn't take up the tenant complaint, which I don't think they should, the tenant has cause against the landlord.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JamesC32 on 03/20/2016 7:48 PM
and at what point would an automatic fine kick in if the behavior(s) didn't stop?

Around 15 years ago, we had a PM who sent a threat letter at the drop of a hat. 15 years later, we have homeowners who are still angry about those letters. IMO, her threat letters were very damaging to the board-homeowner relationship.

When I first got on our board, I asked about our fining policy. No one could explain it to me clearly. Fines had been added for this or for that when a board member got annoyed at someone in particular. Fines were applied selectively.

I asked how much we had collected in fines in the past year. No one could tell me.

I asked if we ever wrote off the fines. That too seemed to be done without any consistency.

I asked who wanted to take ownership of getting our fining policies cleaned up. No volunteers. But I did get the board to suspend fining for all issues except those that involve safety. Those safely violations are enforced diligently, but there are only a few out of the many violations that we have on the books.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
It depends on the type of complaint in our community. We have two security officers who can receive complaints about neighbor/neighbor disputes that may involve criminal activity - they have to disclose their names to the officers, but the officers don't say where the complaint came from, they'll usually say "we received complaints about X and go on from there. If it involves a number of residents, the board is notified and then the property manager will contact the owner, saying the same thing, so we usually don't have to name names.

I investigate complaints on my job - I won't say what kind, but I've always been skeptical of "anonymous complaints." I fully understand the concern about retaliation, but in my experience these complaints are short on actual facts (dates, locations, times, etc.) and long on wacky allegations. You can't go back to the complainant to obtain additional information and he/she may have the valuable piece needed for me to take more action. Then there are the "complainants" who are mostly pissed off about something else and want to get someone else in trouble...

When it comes to tenants, our association has listed to them directly, although I personally prefer the tenant to address this through the owner/landlord. In my community, we have a lot of off-site owners and it seems they expect the association to babysit their tenants and deal with their mess, while they sit back and collect rent checks. In this case, why can't the owner visit the home at night and listen to the racket, record it and then talk to the neighbors personally and if that doesn't work, take it up with the board? Besides, if/when the subject of the complaint is notified a complaint has been filed, he/she may figure out where it came from.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JamesC32 (California)
Posts: 20
Posted:
I'm familiar with the offsite owner description! When that sitting back and allowing the babysitting to happen regularly has been established, it's tricky to turn that around. It seems to suggest something added to the Bylaws/Rules & Regs that addresses this situation. I can imagine this particular offsite owner being offended in being asked to visit the site and check on the issue (which would quickly and easily take care of the problem).
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
We have 30% offsite Owners, James, many of whom live far away, even abroad. Why can't the tenant take a pic of the offending dog ?? I

believe tenants should have the same rights as Owners re: violations and their rights to peaceful enjoyment of the premises should be the same as Owners.

If your CC&Rs give the Board the authority to make rules, then that's all the board needs to do, which is pretty easy in CA. board praises new or rules change, sent to Owners for 30-day comment period. discussed at next open mtg. and board votes. Changing the bylaws requires Owners to vote and doesn't seem to fit this issue.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here