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BryceD (Texas)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Hello,

My company is managing a condo community, which I will briefly describe below. What I am looking for is to see if anyone has any experience living in and/or managing a similar type of community. We want to make sure we are on top of our service!

The community is similar to a townhome concept, but the fact that it is 55+ age restricted and the way the yards are setup, we have many complications from things that ordinarily are simple things. The condos actually look exactly like single family free-standing homes. They sit approximately 10 feet from one another on either side and between the homes there is a gated yard area. The association takes care of all exterior maintenance including irrigation and landscaping of everything on the home's exterior, included the gated yard area.

1) Yards: a handful of owners like to place locks on their gates for their own personal reasons. Additionally, some owners have dogs in the backyard. This is a challenging situation for routine landscape maintenance, as we do not always know the exact schedule. They generally come weekly for service during the growing season, but that can change last minute due to weather or other circumstances. It puts the Association in a difficult situation because it has an obligation to maintain the property, but may be unable to due to the altered presence of resident property. Some residents get angry and they demand to be notified of changes in the schedule, but this cannot always be provided within the same week of service. I would definitely like to always give 24 hours notice, but I can't promise something that I cannot rely on the landscape company to always deliver to us. If they fail to uphold their promise, we will look bad. Are there any suggestions here?

2) Landscape Modifications: One other thing we constantly have questions about... our owners have a lot of time and some have a lot of money. Naturally they want to improve the landscaping around their "home" condo so it looks nicer. This can present a problem because the gated area is really more of a dedicated drainage area than a "yard" even though it has grass in it. The houses are close together and drainage is very sensitive. Currently they have to request permission to change anything on the exterior, because in reality it belongs to the condo association as condo property. The challenge comes in that we and the board have concerns about all of the modifications, who is performing them (unknown third parties, DIY, etc.), and what could possibly be damaged as a result in the immediate future and the longterm... (if the drainage is disrupted it could potentially lead to foundation issues down the road). The association is mostly covered as far as resident responsibility for modifications, not only is it written in their documents, but they are reminded of these responsibilities when they fill out the modification form.

3) Landscape modifications & maintenance: Furthermore, all owners' dues equally pay for association landscaping throughout the community. When modifications are added, it becomes unclear as to who should pay for the maintenance and how is that easily collected, since these modifications alter the state of the condominium from how the builder built it. Tracking individual maintenance costs throughout the community becomes a burden potentially on the management company to track all the separate accounting work just to track and accommodate this - again, not something in the contract and the landscaper and management company both take on extra duties as a result, if not worked out. It is nearly impossible to keep a running list of exactly all the condos with exterior modifications to landscape, and exactly the size, etc. of all the modifications and how they should be charged... or if all owners should just split everything, even if it was not built that way.

If anyone has any suggestions or feedback, I'd really love to hear what's working out there. The private yard area (but still condo property) makes it very difficult to perform the association's purpose. Thanks in advance!
BryceD (Texas)
Posts: 7
Posted:
One other thing I forgot to mention:

All "homes" were built within the last three years and...

4) Foundations: one of the biggest things I think we will face, living in Texas and being on hard/expansive clay soils, is that our foundations are going to move. The irrigation system is centrally managed, the foundations are "owned/maintained" by the condominium association, so owners may be affected on the inside if the foundation shifts (drywall cracks, etc.), yet they have no control over the irrigation system. We have had three different structural engineer firms examine three foundations and they all reach the same conclusion: there are no foundation defects, the foundations are moving due to the expansive clay soils, try to maintain constant moisture around the foundations. We have every single zone checked on a quarterly basis, we used to do monthly but didn't really see the benefit. Typically residents let us know about problems faster than the inspections can even tell us. The way we see it, weekly inspections might be the only thing that would give us a good gauge when it's 104 degrees in the summer in Texas. We have heard of a townhome project coming up with some basic procedures for liability and also some guidelines that determine when foundation damage is actionable and the amount of movement that dictates it is actually damage, etc. As a management company we want to do everything that is reasonable to help, so does the Board, but at some point we also have to protect the rest of the owners from litigious-happy owners. We also feel that residents do have some obligation to report issues in a timely manner if they notice anything, since the irrigation does affect the condo on the inside and the association property on the exterior. Yes they do not control the irrigation, but that should not stop one from inspecting their foundation that surrounds their condo. If they notice a problem, they can report it and we will handle it rapidly.

Any thoughts? These are our biggest areas of concern.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
The HOA I live in sounds similar in some ways. The common property consists of all land where there's not a residence slab sitting on it. The HOA is responsible for the upkeep of landscaping, tree trimming, irrigation and drainage facilities, etc. Nobody has a "yard" per se. Step outside your front or back door and you're stepping on common property. Mowing the grass, fertilizing the shrubs, trimming the trees, treating for weeds and pests... all of that would be virtually impossible if there were fences and gates all over the community. We have no fences and no gates anywhere near the residences.

Does your condo community have anything in its CCRs concerning fences and gates like you describe? Here, "customization" of the property surrounding a home is severely limited. It is, after all, common property that is the responsibility of the HOA to maintain.

My first reaction to your post is to get rid of the fences and gates completely so that the landscape maintenance work can take place unimpeded.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Bryce

Our HOA units are small, standalone homes with about 20 feet (side to side) between them and our association does all the landscaping. Each unit has a small, privacy fenced in backyard. Our association does all outside home maintenance and landscaping. Each unit is responsible for the landscaping inside their privacy fence.

We do not allow personal landscaping of any type in the area the association maintains including the front and side of each unit.

Our fences start along the back edge of a unit so the sides are open. Describe more to me about the fences you have between units. My first blush is those locking their fences are prohibiting access to common areas and must stop doing so immediately. Also no landscaping of any kind will be permitted between nor in front of units.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm hoping, Bryce, that PitA checks in because drainage seems to be a specialty of his. I know nothing about the topic but have learned how important it is from PitA. I think your quote will catch his eye:

"This can present a problem because the gated area is really more of a dedicated drainage area than a "yard" even though it has grass in it. The houses are close together and drainage is very sensitive....The challenge comes in that we and the board have concerns about all of the modifications, who is performing them (unknown third parties, DIY, etc.), and what could possibly be damaged as a result in the immediate future and the longterm."

Offhand it seems that Your Board needs to enforce your governing documents before damage occurs!

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Sorry, Bryce, I missed your 2nd post and now see that you're the PM. It sounds like you're being very responsible.
BryceD (Texas)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Thanks everyone for your responses. Yes we are the PM and are trying to be responsible. The owners are 55+ with lots of free time and some with lots of money and they have expressed a desire to be able to make improvements.

One struggle is between the desire to reasonably allow for improvements to the limited common elements/gated yard areas, but also not to end up with a maintenance nightmare and endless battles between the Association and owners.

The owners really do not "own" anything on the exterior of the home, and it looks like the home, couple that with the age group - it has been difficult to explain to them that they do not own what is on the outside.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Bryce

In one sense they do own what is on the outside. The difference is they "collectively" own it and cannot make changes unless they "collectively" agree.
BryceD (Texas)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Yes I agree that is a more accurate explanation.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BryceD on 03/20/2016 11:08 AM
4) Foundations: one of the biggest things I think we will face, living in Texas and being on hard/expansive clay soils, is that our foundations are going to move. The irrigation system is centrally managed, the foundations are "owned/maintained" by the condominium association

Can you explain "owned/maintained"?
Who holds the deed to what?
Who's liable for what?
Can you explain what you do to remedy a situation when you're notified of a problem?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
BryceD (Texas)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Can you explain "owned/maintained"?
Yes: the condominium association collectively is responsible for the foundations which are underneath the condo dwelling. The foundations are not owned by any one owner, but are collectively owned by all condominium owners as a shared interest.

Who holds the deed to what?
The condo owner holds the deed to the condo, which is essentially the interior space and air inside of the interior walls, not to mention several paragraphs of legal details regarding various exceptions. So it looks like house, but it is a condominium. Think of a high rise or apartment condo, but a house.

Who's liable for what?
That's open-ended, I guess it depends on how far someone wants to take whatever they are upset about. The condominium regime/association is responsible for maintaining the exterior of every element of the association, in addition the clubhouse, streets, gates, and the foundations underneath all homes. However, again, all owners have a shared ownership interest in the entire condominium regime, think of it like an investment. If you own stock in Dell, you can't walk into a Dell office building and say I own x number of shares and therefore am entitled to this corner office... they can't point out any portion of their ownership in the exterior portions, but they own their share fraction of the entire ownership. Basically all owners share interest, but the Board makes decisions on behalf of the Association. Management carries out those decisions. Liability isn't always black and white.

Can you explain what you do to remedy a situation when you're notified of a problem?
It depends what the problem is. If there's a reported issue with the sprinkler, the manager places a work order and the sprinkler is repaired.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BryceD on 03/20/2016 10:14 PM
Can you explain "owned/maintained"?
Yes: the condominium association collectively is responsible for the foundations which are underneath the condo dwelling. The foundations are not owned by any one owner, but are collectively owned by all condominium owners as a shared interest.

Who holds the deed to what?
The condo owner holds the deed to the condo, which is essentially the interior space and air inside of the interior walls, not to mention several paragraphs of legal details regarding various exceptions. So it looks like house, but it is a condominium. Think of a high rise or apartment condo, but a house.

Who's liable for what?
That's open-ended, I guess it depends on how far someone wants to take whatever they are upset about. The condominium regime/association is responsible for maintaining the exterior of every element of the association, in addition the clubhouse, streets, gates, and the foundations underneath all homes. However, again, all owners have a shared ownership interest in the entire condominium regime, think of it like an investment. If you own stock in Dell, you can't walk into a Dell office building and say I own x number of shares and therefore am entitled to this corner office... they can't point out any portion of their ownership in the exterior portions, but they own their share fraction of the entire ownership. Basically all owners share interest, but the Board makes decisions on behalf of the Association. Management carries out those decisions. Liability isn't always black and white.

Can you explain what you do to remedy a situation when you're notified of a problem?
It depends what the problem is. If there's a reported issue with the sprinkler, the manager places a work order and the sprinkler is repaired.

Apologize for not being clearer. Understand the general principles.

I wanted to understand more about your moving foundations in particular. Seems you are looking for early notification so that you can get things fixed. But not sure what kind of fixes you are providing. Also, not sure how homeowner behavior contributes to the problem.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
BryceD (Texas)
Posts: 7
Posted:
"I wanted to understand more about your moving foundations in particular. Seems you are looking for early notification so that you can get things fixed. But not sure what kind of fixes you are providing. Also, not sure how homeowner behavior contributes to the problem. "

I am not sure how to quote, NpS, so I just literally put your reply in quotes

Here's the typical situation I would like to see:
1) Association takes reasonable measures that do not bankrupt the association to monitor the irrigation system and reasonably attempt to create a constant state of soil moisture. Currently this is in the form of quarterly irrigation inspections, the grounds crew also keeps an eye out for dry spots.

2) If an Owner notices dry spots or soil pulling away from the foundation, report to management promptly so that the irrigation system can be inspected further in that area specifically.

3) Remedies mainly consist of irrigation adjustments to be proactive against further movement. Remedies could be as extensive as having a foundation company drill piers, etc. if there is extensive movement, but this has not occurred yet. We are looking to implement common sense & fact-based regulations that prevent an owner from making a simple claim that the foundation is "damaged" and automatically cause the Board to jump through hoops to spend the associations money without proof. We also think the owner should share some mutual responsibility in helping proactively detect any irrigation moisture deficiencies around the slab - if they think there is a problem, report it.

The first thing some owners may try to do if they see signs of interior drywall cracks is to file suit, when the association can only reasonably do so much to fight the affects of nature, it cannot prevent everything. Some owners have attempted to water their own foundations (defaulting to what they are used to), rather than alert management, which is said to be detrimental not only in google searches but also by structural engineers that have been to the site, because it is not consistent.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
To quote, click the "quote" link on the upper right of the post instead of the "reply" link. Edit out what you don't want to quote. Then scroll down past the bottom of the text and begin typing. What you wanted to quote will be set in a box.

Found the following newspaper article on your foundation wall issue:

http://www.dallasnews.com/lifestyles/home-and-gardening/headlines/20120224-fend-off-foundation-troubles-home-repairs-by-watering-right.ece

Seems that watering foundations and placement of trees and shrubbery can have a significant impact.

Recommend that you bring in a soil engineer and/or arborist to speak with your board. This is not something that you want to deal with on an ad hoc basis.

Even though your HOA is still very young, might be a good idea to talk with a local reserve specialist who can give you a rough idea of the potential costs to maintain/repair/replace over the long haul.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BryceD on 03/20/2016 10:59 AM
Hello,

My company is managing a condo community, which I will briefly describe below. What I am looking for is to see if anyone has any experience living in and/or managing a similar type of community. We want to make sure we are on top of our service!

The community is similar to a townhome concept, but the fact that it is 55+ age restricted and the way the yards are setup, we have many complications from things that ordinarily are simple things. The condos actually look exactly like single family free-standing homes. They sit approximately 10 feet from one another on either side and between the homes there is a gated yard area. The association takes care of all exterior maintenance including irrigation and landscaping of everything on the home's exterior, included the gated yard area.

1) Yards: a handful of owners like to place locks on their gates for their own personal reasons. Additionally, some owners have dogs in the backyard. This is a challenging situation for routine landscape maintenance, as we do not always know the exact schedule. They generally come weekly for service during the growing season, but that can change last minute due to weather or other circumstances. It puts the Association in a difficult situation because it has an obligation to maintain the property, but may be unable to due to the altered presence of resident property. Some residents get angry and they demand to be notified of changes in the schedule, but this cannot always be provided within the same week of service. I would definitely like to always give 24 hours notice, but I can't promise something that I cannot rely on the landscape company to always deliver to us. If they fail to uphold their promise, we will look bad. Are there any suggestions here?

2) Landscape Modifications: One other thing we constantly have questions about... our owners have a lot of time and some have a lot of money. Naturally they want to improve the landscaping around their "home" condo so it looks nicer. This can present a problem because the gated area is really more of a dedicated drainage area than a "yard" even though it has grass in it. The houses are close together and drainage is very sensitive. Currently they have to request permission to change anything on the exterior, because in reality it belongs to the condo association as condo property. The challenge comes in that we and the board have concerns about all of the modifications, who is performing them (unknown third parties, DIY, etc.), and what could possibly be damaged as a result in the immediate future and the longterm... (if the drainage is disrupted it could potentially lead to foundation issues down the road). The association is mostly covered as far as resident responsibility for modifications, not only is it written in their documents, but they are reminded of these responsibilities when they fill out the modification form.

3) Landscape modifications & maintenance: Furthermore, all owners' dues equally pay for association landscaping throughout the community. When modifications are added, it becomes unclear as to who should pay for the maintenance and how is that easily collected, since these modifications alter the state of the condominium from how the builder built it. Tracking individual maintenance costs throughout the community becomes a burden potentially on the management company to track all the separate accounting work just to track and accommodate this - again, not something in the contract and the landscaper and management company both take on extra duties as a result, if not worked out. It is nearly impossible to keep a running list of exactly all the condos with exterior modifications to landscape, and exactly the size, etc. of all the modifications and how they should be charged... or if all owners should just split everything, even if it was not built that way.

If anyone has any suggestions or feedback, I'd really love to hear what's working out there. The private yard area (but still condo property) makes it very difficult to perform the association's purpose. Thanks in advance!

1) cut the locks as necessary

2) sounds like the 'gated area' is actually a drainage swale AND a drainage easement - remove any offending vegetation or changes, billing the HO in question OR wait for the major damage to occur THEN bill everyone

3) remove any unapproved landscape modifications at the (offending) HO's expense

Y'all must educate the HOs that they bought into a PLANNED MAINTENANCE community with DRAINAGE EASEMENTS which MAY NOT be modified.

A community presentation by a civil/soil engineer may be in order.

BEST OF LUCK

you will need it in a 55+ community

'don't tell me ...........'
'you can't tell me what to do with my property.....'
'that's the way I always did ........'
'up north ..........'

picture the rage, anger, confusion in the coots' eyes


PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
then pity them and go home and have a drink

BryceD (Texas)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Cold hard advice PiTa, but probably what is needed for these folks. Thanks again everyone for your feedback.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
remember, you are managing a BUSINESS (albeit not for profit) not a social club

the CONTRACTEEs are violating their COVENANT when they modify community assets (albeit exclusive use)

the BOD (? and you ?) have a fiduciary responsibility to the CORPORATION

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