Any advise ??

Started by KimT2 • 14 replies • 1513 views

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KimT2 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 23

Posted:

We live in a 11 home development that is 4 years old. We've been here for 2 years, and the HOA board has never had a meeting with all the homeowners during this time.
They are quick to collect the dues, and quick to contact their lawyer, but take their sweet time to respond to questions from homeowners (and sometimes just don't respond.)
We have CC&R's, but no bylaws have been written yet. They terrorized us over a shed, let another neighbor do the same thing they called us on, and said he was "grandfathered" in. Nothing in the covenants about that ...
How do we deal with these people? They are unapproachable, unfriendly, and downright hateful. My husband saw the Pres and Secretary out in their yards a few weeks ago. He walked up, shook their hands and asked if they could tell him what the $400 bill for lawyers fees was for that we had just gotten. The HOA President stated " It's a $400 A**hole bill".
I could go on and on, but I'm sure you've heard similar situations on this board. I just don't know how to deal with these folks since they've chosen to stop communicating with us (since we paid the $400 lawyer fee.)

HaroldS1 (Arizona)
Posts: 314

Posted:

Only eleven homes? Must be a wonderful living in close proximity with such charming leaders. Did each of the eleven have to pay $400 for the legal costs or was that $400 divided by 11? If this was a special assessment, did the owners vote on it with the proper per cent approving? Why would you pay it without knowing what it was for? You DO have a right to know. Sounds like the husband and wife are Pres and Secretary respectively. Who elected them if there have been no meetings in the two years you've lived there? What state are you in? Are you the only owner out of eleven thst is unhappy with the situation? Harold

KimT2 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By HaroldS1 on 06/20/2007 5:05 PM
Only eleven homes? Must be a wonderful living in close proximity with such charming leaders. Did each of the eleven have to pay $400 for the legal costs or was that $400 divided by 11? If this was a special assessment, did the owners vote on it with the proper per cent approving? Why would you pay it without knowing what it was for? You DO have a right to know. Sounds like the husband and wife are Pres and Secretary respectively. Who elected them if there have been no meetings in the two years you've lived there? What state are you in? Are you the only owner out of eleven thst is unhappy with the situation? Harold

The $400 was just for us. It was for a boat load of telephone calls and a couple of letters the board exchanged with the attorney regarding our shed.None of the other homeowners paid it.
See - we had lived her about 14-16 months,had a shed put up on our property. Didn't submit plans (b'c at least 2 other homeowners told us they didn't submit any either.) Our bad for not reading the covenants, I know.
Anyway - after 14-16 months we started getting letters about the shed. We wrote back asking what exactly they wanted us to submit, asking for any kind of guidance. They responded it was not their job to babysit us and read the covenants to us.
Well - the last letter we got said to have the shed removed in 7 days or they would be taking us to court. We removed the shed, submitted a detailed list of plans, and it was approved.
2 more months go by, and a board member tells another neighbor that we really didn't have to remove the shed, all we had to do was submit a picture.....
We are in Pennsylvania. No one elected the board, the builder appointed them when he turned the association over. Like I said they do not have meetings with the homeowners. There was another $1400.00 legal fee that was divided among all 11 homeowners this past March with our yearly dues. We asked what that was- over a month ago, and they have yet to answer.
I can see how people can resort to violence when it comes to HOA's. This is so frustrating !

GloriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 829

Posted:

Kim:

Document, document, document! I can't stress enough the need to put your requests in writing. Since you only have 11 homes, I assume you are self managed? If so put your request in writing for an annual meeting to the President, remind the President that elections are to be held annually and the importance of him/her abiding by the governing documents. If they haven't had a meeting of the members in 2 years they are negligent in their duties. Perhaps you may think of running for the board. With 11 homes campaigning would be easy.

KimT2 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GloriaM on 06/20/2007 7:18 PM
Kim:

Document, document, document! I can't stress enough the need to put your requests in writing. Since you only have 11 homes, I assume you are self managed? If so put your request in writing for an annual meeting to the President, remind the President that elections are to be held annually and the importance of him/her abiding by the governing documents. If they haven't had a meeting of the members in 2 years they are negligent in their duties. Perhaps you may think of running for the board. With 11 homes campaigning would be easy.

We are definitely thinking of running for the board.We are self managed. We are in PA, and are assuming elections should be announced, and voted on, not just the interim board the builder appointed (4 years ago).
We do keep copies of everything we send/receive. It's a shame it has to be this way, but if you're not 100% on the side of this board, then you're the target for them.

StephenP3 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 2

Posted:

Kim, I would rally some meighbors and push for more transparency by the current condo association board. The best way to do that is a website, if there isnt one yet. All documents should be posted on the site and that way there's no where to hide. Some of these ideas are posted on www.condotrustee.com. You may want forward them the article.

PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347

Posted:

KimT2:

From your post, it appears the Declarant has created the interim board with 'his' Board members, and now you are at the point of turnover with election of a new Exec. Board made up of residents.

Don't assume anything!!! Right now the declarant is still in control until turnover. You must review your official documents (Bylaws) which should lay out the process for electing the new Board, terms of office, and the positions/roles necessary. As far as the declarant is concerned, you need to understand that the Board he has appointed is looking out for his (declarant) interests, and is there to make sure all is done to ensure the developer's goals.

Now its time for you the residents to step up. Contact the Board President by letter. After studying the bylaws, ask the right questions--when will turnover take place? notice of meeting? nominating committee? voting & proxies? ....etc. etc.

If you show a willing spirit to work with the existing Board, and the integrity and desire needed to possibly be a candidate, you should receive their cooperation.

I would suggest you consider a management company to assist you in these early years. It is tough going for an association to manage itself without any guidance.

KimT2 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PaulM on 06/21/2007 9:48 AM
KimT2:

From your post, it appears the Declarant has created the interim board with 'his' Board members, and now you are at the point of turnover with election of a new Exec. Board made up of residents.

Don't assume anything!!! Right now the declarant is still in control until turnover. You must review your official documents (Bylaws) which should lay out the process for electing the new Board, terms of office, and the positions/roles necessary. As far as the declarant is concerned, you need to understand that the Board he has appointed is looking out for his (declarant) interests, and is there to make sure all is done to ensure the developer's goals.

Now its time for you the residents to step up. Contact the Board President by letter. After studying the bylaws, ask the right questions--when will turnover take place? notice of meeting? nominating committee? voting & proxies? ....etc. etc.

If you show a willing spirit to work with the existing Board, and the integrity and desire needed to possibly be a candidate, you should receive their cooperation.

I would suggest you consider a management company to assist you in these early years. It is tough going for an association to manage itself without any guidance.

The developer is out of the picture. Has been for over 3 years. It's still the board he appointed when a certain percentage of the 11 homes were sold. Even he wants nothing more to do with the current board members.(A few of the homeowners still have contact with him)
We have tried to be nice to the board, and really it's only the Pres and VP that are unwilling. 2 other members have told us they don't even want to be on the board.
Oh - and by the way, we don't have any By-laws. They were never written.

KimT2 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Regarding by-laws : who exactly writes/forms these? Should the board meet with all the homeowners and get input, and do HOA's usually wait 4+ years to write by-laws?? - TIA

PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347

Posted:

KimT2: I am questioning the Board members the declarant appointed 3+ years ago from the 11 homes that were sold.
'...The developer is out of the picture. Has been for over 3 years. It's still the board he appointed when a certain percentage of the 11 homes were sold. Even he wants nothing more to do with the current board members...'

- Did you have an official 'turnover' when the declarant turned it over to the association of owners/residents and a new Board was formed from resident group?
- Check your state's 'Planned community act' or 'Condo act' for state law relative to the governing of your community. This would be the official document for you to review on Exec. Board, etc.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Kim,
As I have noted before, in my experience, the most important part of most of these situations is to find a way to let a little sunshine in. Maybe your city or county has an Arbritation Board, a legal aid division or any other Official Department that will agree to act as middleman to start a dialogue. The Newspapers, letters to editor, e-mail your elected representatives, get them interested. It seems at this point all you really want to do is communicate.
Stick to that and sent registered letter to Board and request a sit down with them. Don't look for too much to start but be sure to volunteer to give your time, experience and assistance. You could write a short resume', presenting your qualifications. And as this goes along, keep records, stick to one subject, and the way I see it right now, you should sit down and talk it out with as many owners you can get and invite the Board. Be persistent, use e-mails, and be visable. Walk the complex daily, pick up a little trash, e-mail board of problems noted and when you noted them. If you see a door left open or a window or a car door, etc. e-mail board and note it. Don't be picky but build a record showing showing your interest. Start a little owners social meeting, you may have to invite each one personally, but that is good. Insert yourselve into the community and work for change. I think Lyndon Johnson said, I would rather have my enemy in my tent pi g out the door than have him outside pi----g in.

KimT2 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RobertR1 on 06/23/2007 5:59 AM
Kim,
As I have noted before, in my experience, the most important part of most of these situations is to find a way to let a little sunshine in. Maybe your city or county has an Arbritation Board, a legal aid division or any other Official Department that will agree to act as middleman to start a dialogue. The Newspapers, letters to editor, e-mail your elected representatives, get them interested. It seems at this point all you really want to do is communicate.
Stick to that and sent registered letter to Board and request a sit down with them. Don't look for too much to start but be sure to volunteer to give your time, experience and assistance. You could write a short resume', presenting your qualifications. And as this goes along, keep records, stick to one subject, and the way I see it right now, you should sit down and talk it out with as many owners you can get and invite the Board. Be persistent, use e-mails, and be visable. Walk the complex daily, pick up a little trash, e-mail board of problems noted and when you noted them. If you see a door left open or a window or a car door, etc. e-mail board and note it. Don't be picky but build a record showing showing your interest. Start a little owners social meeting, you may have to invite each one personally, but that is good. Insert yourselve into the community and work for change. I think Lyndon Johnson said, I would rather have my enemy in my tent pi g out the door than have him outside pi----g in.

We will be sending them board another certified letter this week, asking for them to meet with us alone, or with the entire development.
We've talked with at least 6 people who can't believe we actually have a HOA, and that the board acts alone. They sent out a letter stating no one is to contact them by phone, email or in person. It's all to be done through letters. Well, we tried that, and they don't respond.
They still haven't cashed our $400.00 check that we had to pay for what the HOA president called "A**hole fees". Should we stop payment on the check until this is all cleared up??

Jadedone4 (Virginia)
Posts: 495

Posted:

Kim, not sure if this was asked in an earlier post... but WHO was the check made out to..? Not the amount, or the reason, but the To: line reads what? If it was not made out to "XYZ Homeowners Association" you need to put a stop payment on it. If it was made out to your HOA, then I hope that you made a photocopy of the check, and that it was sent, or delivered, with some form of "receipt" so that you can verify that the HOA has accepted it. I believe (and could very well be wrong here as I have not drafted a check in almost two years - do most online), that after ninety days a personal check is no longer valid. But as I stated, your bank/credit union etc., is a better resource for that answer. Once the check is cashed, and this may be a pain, get a scanned copy of both front and back of the check for your records. This will also show you under what name the check was deposited/cashed (i.e. "XYZ HOA," etc at whatever bank). Keep this for your records, and make sure that any correspodence with the HOA that you keep detailed records of when, where, what, etc...

PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347

Posted:

KimT2: I can hear the frustration in your posts, but you really need to address your energy to your own CC&R and your state's legal document for associations. You cannot move forward until you know what you are 'allowed' to do...or not do.

Again, seek out your county/state office to find out what documents have been officially filed for this association, and proceed from there.

A direct answer to your question--when our assn. (in PA) was initially formed the developer officially filed the CC&Rs and the Bylaws.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

But keep in mind that CC&Rs and Bylaws may be filed in different places. In Kentucky, the CC&Rs are recorded in the Deed Room in the County Clerk's office and run with the land.

The Bylaws are legal documents which essentially are stockholder-approved rules governing the conduct of a business. Bylaws typically include rules concerning the election of directors, required meetings, and amendment of existing bylaws. The "stockholders" in the case of most HOAs in Kentucky are generally the directors and officers of the corporation, which, in MOST cases will be the developer who created the HOA as a corporation, generally before the development is even built.

I would be curious to know what exactly your Deed Restrictions say at the beginning of the document.

Ours say: DECLARATION OF COVENANTS, CONDITIONS, & RESTRICTIONS

THIS DECLARATION OF COVENANTS, CONDITIONS, & RESTRICTIONS FOR XXXXXXXXX ("Declaration"), is made by XXXXXX PARTNERSHIP, A Kentucky Limited Partnership, with principal office and place of business at XXX XXX Road, Louisville, KY 40243 ("Developer").

WHEREAS, Developer is the owner of certain real property in Jefferson County, Kentucky, which is to be developed as a residential subdivision;

If that doesn't pan out, try to contact the Secretary of State and search their business records database for the name of the corporation listed in the declaration part of your CC&Rs. In MOST states anymore you should be able to do this on line.

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