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ScottJ6 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 7
Posted:

I am a member seeking certain information regarding my association.
What documents can I legally have access to.
It seems like any paying member of an association should have access to:

Past Years Budgets, Results
Banking Ledgers
Status of Dues for Units
Fines levied against members

thank you
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ScottJ6 on 03/17/2016 6:09 PM

I am a member seeking certain information regarding my association.
What documents can I legally have access to.
It seems like any paying member of an association should have access to:

Past Years Budgets, Results
Banking Ledgers
Status of Dues for Units
Fines levied against members

thank you

Scott,

Typically you may not see the ledgers for other lots. However, that varies by State.

You don't specify if you are in a condominium or not.
You don't specify if your Association is incorporated or not.

Since most Associations are incorporated as a nonprofit, but check to be sure, I would expect that the Wisconson's nonstock corporations statutes (chapter 181) would be applicable. Per that statute, specifically 181.1602 specifies that members may inspect records. Records are defined by 181.1601.

If you are in a condominium, Condominium ownership act may specify additional terms or records you may inspect.

Additionally, your own governing documents (typically the Bylaws) will provide for inspection of records by members.

Hope this helps,

Tim
ScottJ6 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Thanks Tim

This is a condo HOA btw, yes, we are incorporated

Your information helped, thx
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm wondering, Scott, why you want to inspect: "Status of Dues for Units...Fines levied against members" ? This info generally is private and not availalble to any members except Board members. But states' statutes do vary, so perhaps Wisc. gives you access to your neighbor's financial ' affairs.

Many HOAs do report on the % of lots that are delinquent and how much that totals. Would that help you?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm wondering, Scott, why you want to inspect: "Status of Dues for Units...Fines levied against members" ? This info generally is private and not availalble to any members except Board members. But states' statutes do vary, so perhaps Wisc. gives you access to your neighbor's financial ' affairs.

Many HOAs do report on the % of lots that are delinquent and how much that totals. Would that help you?
RaymondS2 (Maryland)
Posts: 42
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ScottJ6 on 03/17/2016 6:49 PM
Thanks Tim

This is a condo HOA btw, yes, we are incorporated

Your information helped, thx

Scott, at least in the state of Florida, ALL RECORDS with the exception of legal issues between the Board and the Association attorney are open record BY STATE LAW. YOu may want to go to Barnes and Noble to their law section and look for a book that shows you the law. In our store I found a book written by some attorneys on Florida HOA Condo law, sort of a cliff notes type book that also showed references to State Law Statutes. It was really helpful

If you look at your financial records, especially the long sheet and check sheet you should be able to determine who owes what and who spent what.

As far as actually looking at the ledger for other units, I do not know but if you ask for and receive monthly financial spread sheets you may be able to determine what you want to know. That is what I did

If you are interested in seeing about other unit liens, go to your clerk of court site for your county. That is how I opened the can of worms and saw that 15% of our units had liens on them for a variety of reasons including non payment of assessments. It's YOUR RIGHT to know if your money is being spent correctly and if you are paying for those "non paying lots" All liens MUST B REGISTERED with the Court so that would be an area where you could investigate incase your board is playing games.

Hope this helps
ScottJ6 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 7
Posted:

Kerry

I would prefer not to get into the specifics but it's my belief that fines are not being applied consistently...rarely...unless the president of the HOA has a personal issue with the person/situation.

Scott
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Scott

There are running arguments and often laws concerning how much information can be divulged concerning dues delinquencies when it come to naming specific units/owners. Yes a report can and should be made as to the amount and length of delinquencies but naming names is usually prohibited. Personally I disagree with this. I would name names.

RaymondS2 (Maryland)
Posts: 42
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 03/18/2016 5:13 AM
Scott

There are running arguments and often laws concerning how much information can be divulged concerning dues delinquencies when it come to naming specific units/owners. Yes a report can and should be made as to the amount and length of delinquencies but naming names is usually prohibited. Personally I disagree with this. I would name names.


I agree Scott, however, you can name names only if it is done "in house" via HOA newsletter or at board meetings. Where our HOA ran into problems was not naming EVERY offender (selectively naming names and or addresses) and placing those names in "public" view on a bulletin board that is accessible not only to our members but to the general public.

The offended parties were able to sue for defamation and slander as this type of information should not be made available to the "general public"

Best way is to use the unit number, and place it in minutes and or newsletter and keep it viewable to member eyes only, not to the entire city
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Certain documents are already open to PUBLIC viewing. Those are the CC&R's and Articles of Incorporation. Other documents such as the by-laws and ARC rules are typically "in-house" only. In regards to the financials. We kept the COLLECTIONS report ONLY amongst the board members. We did NOT reference ANY names only LOT#'s. Otherwise our spending report was distributed openly. Matter of fact that is exactly what we had our meetings based on. Reviewing our expenditures and actions. We had OPEN meetings for members only. Renters weren't frowned upon but they had no voting rights.

There are reasons why collection reports were for Board members ONLY. The best reason is that it is the board that can ONLY take the actions. You may want to know your neighbor owes but it's up to your board to put the lien/foreclose actions. Our board had a policy of 6 months behind we lien. A year we CONSIDER foreclosure. We NEVER EVER sued. Keep in mind our meetings were open so members could overhear our decisions. They could see/hear what the situation was as why certain actions did or did not happen. The privacy part is by NOT using names. That way if the member was there, we did not call them out. Especially if it was a financial sensitive issue causing the non-payment. Members could NOT hold a vote on the actions to collect but could on what to spend.

Keep in mind that the PUD form keeps track of percentages of renters, liens, foreclosures, and lawsuits. That form does NOT even ask for individual's information. Just the percentages. Which is something that the President can gleen from reviewing the collections report. That PUD form is used for mortgage companies to decide your refinance rates and loan package options. Higher rental or financials means your HOA could lose FHA backed loans or face higher rates. That in truth is the ultimate effect renters have outside of the "mess".


Former HOA President
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
When I was treasurer of my board (and newsletter editor), I would disclose the number of units that were delinquent, total amount owed by number of days (30, 60, 90, 120 and 120+). My association doesn't have a fining system because Indiana has case law that states HOAs can't fine because they aren't government agencies (most get around that by calling them administrative fees).

No one's ever asked for specifics as to who owes what - I would never provide that information anyway because of the Fair Credit Reporting Act - you can go to the FTC website for more information on its specifics, but it does prohibit disclosing one's credit history to someone who doesn't have a valid reason for it (e.g. a landlord checking the credit of a potential tenant is OK). Otherwise, it really isn't anyone's business how much their neighbor owes, unless the board isn't doing anything to collect, and the board should be able to provide a summary of the actions the association attorney has taken, such as X number of lawsuits are pending or X number of liens have been filed.

As for fines, I would hope your HOA discloses the most common violations, how many homeowners were cited, total amount of fines assessed and paid, and the number of violations that have been resolved or are still pending. It should already be telling homeowners how complaints are received and investigated, how homeowners are notified and the appeals process. If you think you're being singled out because the HOA president doesn't like you, start with your own issue and then ask your neighbors if they've had the same problem. Then all of you can go to a board meeting and demand answers - if there's an indication the violation process isn't being done according to the rules, the entire board needs to address that or risk getting recalled.

By the way, for those of you who want to know which of your neighbors owe the Association, I'll ask what I've asked two or three times before on other posts on this subject - what exactly will you do with the information? If your actions don't result in the HOA getting its money, it won't matter if you know your next door neighbor paid or not. However, if you lived in my association when I was treasurer and you told me you would pay someone's account off in full, I would have been happy to tell you all about him/her/them - AFTER the check cleared AND sent the homeowner a notice of what you did! How and when you get your money back or not would be your problem.

Public shaming really doesn't work anymore, not in these days of everyone loudly announcing TMI about themselves and everyone else or bankruptcy attorneys talking about how you can get out of debt - everyone seems to be looking for a way to get out of meeting their legal responsibilities. Giving your neighbor the stink eye because he/she hasn't paid won't work either - in fact, you may wind up with a black eye or worse if you confront them!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
EXACTLY SheilaH... Do want to include that HOA's are NOT entitled to member's Social Security numbers. It is NOT required nor falls under those who "need to know". A landlord can on their tenant for credit search but NOT the HOA. That is why lawsuit hold less water than a lien. Can NOT pursue wage garnishments, report to credit agencies, or often collect from bankruptcy cases. Foreclosure/liens by default do show up eventually. That is usually because of the bank's doing. Considering that the bank is the FIRST party to get paid (unless it's a super-lien) to get paid in a foreclosure situation. A lien is to show up during the sales transactions.

Our HOA never fined because they don't really hold up due to actual ability to pursue. Liens can't be the basis for liens/foreclosures in many states. Suing for them you run into the above issues. We found the "HOA pays to fix and lien if you don't pay". It fixes the problem and holds the owner to the property till they pay.

Former HOA President
AmyS14 (Virginia)
Posts: 9
Posted:
In Virginia, new condo owners are provided with the registered Declaration and By-laws, and are required to abide by all stipulations, but the By-law are administered by the Board of Directors--so... Owners must be notified of board meetings, unless the meetings are for bid approval and legal issues.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
To clarify, Amy is in a condominium vs. an HOA. Therefore, laws may (and often due) vary between the two acts (regardless of State)
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Forgot to add that for Virginia HOAs, all meetings of the Board must have prior notice to the membership. I thought it was the same for Condo's as well but have not researched the condo statutes. Therefore, I certainly defer to Amy on that.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Did you find anything useful where Tim suggested you check?

In CA, members have the legal right to have many documents and reports, e.g., budgets, which are required by state law to go to Owners every year. Owners also can have disbursement reports and many other materials. The Owner must ask for these in writing and give a reason for wanting them.

Owners also may request Other Owners' condo and mailing addresses.

What HOAs are NOT required to do in CA is compile records that are not kept in one place. So...if I asked to see the number of fines issued for improper parking on our premises over the post three years, I wouldn't be given them even if Owners' names/addresses were redacted. The reason is the amount of clerical time it would take to look in all 200+ condo files. Same thing if I wanted to know how many units have had their bathrooms remodeled.

We're remodeling a bathroom now, and wanted to see the application package of another Owner with the same floor plan as ours. That Owner wrote our PM an email giving us permission to review his package.

CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
If you feel that this is the case, an unfair application of your docs based on favoritism, you have two choices that I see:

-get on the board so that you can change it if it is happening;

-go straight to court

Otherwise, what do you hope to see happen if you were to get your hands on the smoking gun?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Chrystal's question is a good one, Scott.
ScottJ6 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 7
Posted:
I am going to court, aside from what I feel is an unfair treatment because of an incident that happened previously with my son, the reason and amount I am being fined are just not right.

I'm sorry at this time I can't share details since I believe this forum is also used by the board member and while my case is still in progress I'd rather not share for legal reasons.

I will come back in a month after my court date when I expect to have this resolved to explain.

I do appreciate all the tips and information...it's a very active forum !
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Scott,

Fair enough. I wish you luck.

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