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BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Can we accept a proxy received after the meeting.

At our annual meeting we passed many amendments to our documents. However one amendment needed 100% approval to pass. It was the amendment to lower the amount from 100% to 75% to amend a few specific sections of our documents. Everyone present in person or by proxy voted for this amendment.

There were about 8 owners who were not at the meeting and had not turned in a proxy.
We decided to contact these owners after the meeting to have them either complete their proxy or vote yes or no.

I am thinking since we adjourned the meeting, we can not accept proxies after the fact. But if we had voted to continue the meeting then we could accept proxies given to us after the meeting.

I checked Roberts Rules of order and State Nebraska Nonprofit Corporation Act. I did not find anything that said we could or could not accept proxies after the meeting.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
I personally would not do that, simply because I am not sure how I would explain to a court how we "passed" something that required 100% approval, when not all 100% of our members were present at the meeting or by proxy.

Well, until later.

When we came up with just the right number of proxies to pass what we passed in the meeting.

It may be totally above board and legal, but it doesn't pass my sniff test, and I wouldn't want to be around in three years, when another board, which might not be so pure, tries the same thing, and passes rules first, then finds proxies later, when asked.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Robert's Rules provides that a "motion to fix the time to which to adjourn" can be used when a meeting isn't going to have enough time to complete the business before it. If someone had made that motion and it passed with a vote then you could seamlessly pick up where you left off on the open business that was pending at the first meeting. Otherwise you're out of luck as a simple motion to adjourn, without fixing the time to which to adjourn to, completes the business for the meeting. Various discussions you can find on the web talk about how such a motion is often used when, for instance, there aren't enough proxies for something.

It's not realistic to expect everyone on a board to be a well-versed parliamentarian, but having someone who knows something about Robert's Rules - something more than carrying around a little reference book - and what's possible and what's not under them can be a very good thing to have when faced with unusual circumstances from time to time.
MarleneP1 (Texas)
Posts: 16
Posted:
I do believe your governing documents should give you your answer. By Governing Documents I do mean that you will need to search your Declaration and Bylaws. It may even be in your Community Rules - but I would search the first two first. Trust me if there are any of the owners who might not agree that you should take late proxies they will search the documents. If they find it is not allowed you've got trouble.

We send notification when sending the proxy form of the date it must be returned by in order to count. After sending the proxy originally, we then send a reminder of the return date to all a few days prior to the date to receipt date of their proxy.

I haven't had any meetings continued so I have nothing on that.
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Bonnie, your question is quite misleading. You are not asking if you can collect proxies after a meeting, you are asking if you can alter the outcome of a duly held and counted vote on an amendment that failed. (and simple math would of told you that was going to happen if and when you saw that all HO's weren't there, with or without proxies.

Where is your sense of fairness? Why do you think it would be acceptable to go out after the vote failed to seek out people in order to change a vote that was already taken and counted.

A maneuver such as this is underhanded and one of the exact reasons HOA's are hated and despised. And to be blunt, it's quite shocking that the question was even asked.
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CyrstalB on 03/20/2016 5:29 AM
Bonnie, your question is quite misleading. You are not asking if you can collect proxies after a meeting, you are asking if you can alter the outcome of a duly held and counted vote on an amendment that failed. (and simple math would of told you that was going to happen if and when you saw that all HO's weren't there, with or without proxies.

Where is your sense of fairness? Why do you think it would be acceptable to go out after the vote failed to seek out people in order to change a vote that was already taken and counted.

A maneuver such as this is underhanded and one of the exact reasons HOA's are hated and despised. And to be blunt, it's quite shocking that the question was even asked.

We did not accept any proxy received after the meeting had been adjourned. Everyone at the meeting voted in favor of the amendment. If we would have extended the meeting with the understanding we were going to contact members who had not turned in a proxy, I believe we could have done so.

Basically our lawyer who specializes on condo law and was at the meeting told us we could collect proxies after the meeting he just neglected to tell us not to adjourn the meeting. At this time I am not too happy with him about this. Prior to the meeting he advised us not to have secret ballots. Then when a member asked me why we weren't haven't secret ballots he said we could have secret ballots if we wanted to have them. I tell you finding a good lawyer is very difficult. He is already our fourth lawyer and we may be looking for a fifth.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Bonnie,

Maybe it's the way the questions are being asked.

For example:

Should this vote be taken with secret ballots?
Answer: no

Can this vote be taken with secret ballots?
Answer: Yes

Addressing the Ballots for the meeting, what is allowed and what do you recommend?
Answer: You may have open or secret ballots as the Board desires. I would advise open ballots for an amendment so there is validation between the sign in sheet and who actually voted.
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
So that I understand, a meeting is held, a vote is taken and counted, and if it didn't turn out the way you wanted it to, as long as you don't close the meeting, the voting can continue? Or are you supposed to take a new vote?

I don't see how that is possible, but I won't be surprised if it is.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Yes, it's called a motion to "fix the time to which to adjourn". If done properly, the same meeting can be continued at a fixed day and time in the future. The Robert's Rules references I have explicitly suggest that one of its main uses is to extend the time available to gather ballots and proxies for elections and other voting matters.
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 03/21/2016 2:57 PM
Yes, it's called a motion to "fix the time to which to adjourn". If done properly, the same meeting can be continued at a fixed day and time in the future. The Robert's Rules references I have explicitly suggest that one of its main uses is to extend the time available to gather ballots and proxies for elections and other voting matters.

Thanks Geno, so we can hold a vote, not like the results and then allow a vote to continue over days or months until you can wrangle the votes necessary.

You gotta love HOA law.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Cyrstal

I would question the ability to have a vote, not like the results, and adjourn the meeting to gather more votes. I believe one the polls are closed (as in no more voting) and the votes are tabulated, it is what it is. I could see having a straw poll and knowing something may not pass so adjourn and use the time to gather more votes.

I have seen meetings adjourned to a later time as there was not a quorum and the required quorum needed is reduced for the continued meeting.
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 03/22/2016 3:55 AM
Cyrstal

I would question the ability to have a vote, not like the results, and adjourn the meeting to gather more votes. I believe one the polls are closed (as in no more voting) and the votes are tabulated, it is what it is. I could see having a straw poll and knowing something may not pass so adjourn and use the time to gather more votes.

I have seen meetings adjourned to a later time as there was not a quorum and the required quorum needed is reduced for the continued meeting.

That was my question, once a vote is taken, it's taken, irrespective of the meeting being held over or left open. An important point in this thread. Thank you.
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
Bonnie - Did you mean that to pass this bylaw amendment, 100% of the residents approval was needed - OR 100% of those voting AT THE MEETING (in person or by proxy) was needed?

That 100% thresh hold is EXTREMELY high!!
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SueW6 on 03/24/2016 2:34 PM
Bonnie - Did you mean that to pass this bylaw amendment, 100% of the residents approval was needed - OR 100% of those voting AT THE MEETING (in person or by proxy) was needed?

That 100% thresh hold is EXTREMELY high!!

I meant 100% of our members. There are certain sections in our documents that require 100% approval to amend. Our lawyer told us we needed 100% of the members to amend the percentages required to amend the certain sections in our documents.

If the requirement were only 100% of those voting AT THE MEETING (in person on by proxy) this would have passed easily.

I think it is utterly ridiculous to require 100% member approval for anything, but we have to live with what we have until we can get it amended.

I plan on studying some more laws with the goal of finding something that prevents us from requiring 100% member approval. I have even considered going to the state legislature in Lincoln to present a bill that would prevent condo associations from requiring 100% member approval for anything.

We can sell the building with less than 100% member approval.
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BonnieG1 on 03/24/2016 8:30 PM
Posted By SueW6 on 03/24/2016 2:34 PM
Bonnie - Did you mean that to pass this bylaw amendment, 100% of the residents approval was needed - OR 100% of those voting AT THE MEETING (in person or by proxy) was needed?

That 100% thresh hold is EXTREMELY high!!


I meant 100% of our members. There are certain sections in our documents that require 100% approval to amend. Our lawyer told us we needed 100% of the members to amend the percentages required to amend the certain sections in our documents.

If the requirement were only 100% of those voting AT THE MEETING (in person on by proxy) this would have passed easily.

I think it is utterly ridiculous to require 100% member approval for anything, but we have to live with what we have until we can get it amended.

I plan on studying some more laws with the goal of finding something that prevents us from requiring 100% member approval. I have even considered going to the state legislature in Lincoln to present a bill that would prevent condo associations from requiring 100% member approval for anything.

We can sell the building with less than 100% member approval.

Bonnie, I have neglected to say, "YOU GO GIRL"! Good for you to want to research to further your understanding of the nonsense of HOA's.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BonnieG1 on 03/24/2016 8:30 PM
If the requirement were only 100% of those voting AT THE MEETING (in person on by proxy) this would have passed easily.

I think it is utterly ridiculous to require 100% member approval for anything, but we have to live with what we have until we can get it amended.

It can be lowered eventually but it will take some work. My HOA is at the extreme opposite end of the spectrum. We can amend any of our docs with 2/3 board vote and a simple majority vote of members present at a meeting with quorum. Yours are too hard to amend. Ours are too easy!

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