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CameronM (Tennessee)
Posts: 9
Posted:
When I purchased my house 11+ years ago I was told at closing that there was no HOA. There were no HOA documents to sign and there are no HOA attached to my deed. I have gone down to the record of deeds to verify this. There are some CC&R's but nothing about the HOA. What I didn't know was that the subdivision actually has a registered HOA but it is an optional "opt-in" association. Members can elect to join by paying some dues (yeah right who would do that?). This is why there was no information regarding it during the purchase process.

This optional association has placed a letter on everyone's mailbox giving them notice of a meeting in 30 days that will be to vote to make the HOA mandatory and to apply it to the entire subdivision! This obviously has me worried and I have some questions. I've reached out to an attorney and am waiting to hear back. While I wait I thought maybe you experts might have some insights.

If a subdivision has no HOA and the majority of houses vote one into place does this force it upon all of the people that voted no? I know these laws vary on this from state to state but I couldn't find the law for Tennessee. If that is the case then this is what is happening I guess.

Is a legal means of communicating this out to all property owners to place a letter behind the mailbox flag? Not a letter in the mailbox.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Do you know what a HOA is? Before you start down the path of "No I don't want it", make sure you understand it first. A HOA could be beneficial on some levels. Which mostly is shared expense broken down between ALL members. Something that may be a good thing when it comes to shared areas.

Just saying a HOA is NOT a "They or Them" situation. It is "You and your neighbors" situation. You pay your part to play your part.

Former HOA President
CameronM (Tennessee)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Not really an answer to any of my questions but yes I know what an HOA is. I moved into this subdivision specifically because I did not want anyone to tell me what I could or could not do with or on my property. If the HOA goes into place that is exactly what happens. I vote for more freedom, not less, but that is just one guys opinion.

What I would like to find out now is the exact laws that govern the creation of a HOA in Tennessee. How many houses must be in attendance, how far in advance does the notification have to go out and by what means, how many votes required in order for it to become a HOA that governs all of the houses.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
There seem to be very few if any posters from TN here, Cameron, but we do have a couple from other states who sometimes are willing to look things up.

Do you know if there are any laws about TN HOAs? Or TN HOA formation? Is there by chance anything in your CC&Rs that say must happen to form an HOA?

Is there some kind of point of contact in your optional Association who can guide you to TN legislation?
CameronM (Tennessee)
Posts: 9
Posted:
I don't have any idea about the laws in TN, which is why I have taken to the forums! I'm also searching all around on any data I can find.

There is nothing in the CC&R's attached to my deed that say anything about an HOA. I am trying to get in contact with the person that sent the letter to ask some questions but I am not taking "their" word on what the law is or is not.
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
This happened to me here in Florida. An organization claimed to be to association and tried to amend our documents forcing us into membership. I did the same thing you did (which is what brought me here since the "HOA" was nor forthcoming). I also went to talk to a lawyer for an opinion. It was a small price to pay but for an hour worth of their time the consultation gave me an idea of what to do and where it could go.
CameronM (Tennessee)
Posts: 9
Posted:
I totally agree with the attorney consultation, I have placed a call to a few and I'm just waiting on one to get back with me. I think a 1 hour consultation type thing (paid of course) is all that it would take to just understand what the law and my legal options are.
CameronM (Tennessee)
Posts: 9
Posted:
In your situation did some certain number of houses have to show up in order for a full subdivision mandatory HOA to take place?
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CameronM on 03/08/2016 5:48 PM
I totally agree with the attorney consultation, I have placed a call to a few and I'm just waiting on one to get back with me. I think a 1 hour consultation type thing (paid of course) is all that it would take to just understand what the law and my legal options are.

This is a fairly esoteric and unusual topic. It is not likely that you will find an attorney who can provide an answer off the top of his head. Run like hell from an attorney who claims he can.

If he is a good attorney he will need to do some research, for which you will pay, and from which you should receive a written opinion citing statues, provisions of your CC&R's, and case law. Take him copies of all your governing documents, your deed, the current CC&R's, and the notice you found.

For me, the big question would be whether the CC&R's may lawfully be amended to force an HOA onto property owners. There is a body of common law that has been adopted in some - but not all states - holding that increased obligations may not be imposed upon owners. A second but equally important point is that most states have laws prohibiting a person from being forced to join a non-profit corporation.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Cameron

You say "there were some CC&Rs". Have you taken the time to read them?
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Couple things:

1) I am completely unaware of how you have CC&R's without having an HOA. It may well be that you can, I just don't understand it (like quantum physics... I don't doubt it exists, I just know nothing about it). My first advice is really, really read the CC&R's... and while you do, maybe someone here will educate me on how you have rules/regulations attached to a title, but no association running with it. Who attached them?

2) does this group of homes with CC&R's own any common property? Roads? Drainage easements? Lights? walls?

3) I second to the fourth power asking around and getting a real attorney's opinion, after BOTH of you have read the CC&R's, and the letter sent around.

4) And, just an FYI, placing anything not US Postal related into a US Postal Mailbox is a crime, so yes, if the group didn't put stamps on the letters, they probably didn't want to put them IN the mail boxes. Hanging things outside isn't illegal. It's why rural newspaper delivery often hang a separate box under the mailbox, for the paper. If it goes into the box, it's US Postal Service business. And must be "paid" for.

CameronM (Tennessee)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Quote:

1) I am completely unaware of how you have CC&R's without having an HOA. It may well be that you can, I just don't understand it (like quantum physics... I don't doubt it exists, I just know nothing about it). My first advice is really, really read the CC&R's... and while you do, maybe someone here will educate me on how you have rules/regulations attached to a title, but no association running with it. Who attached them?

The builder or whoever planned the subdivision. They were attached when the house was built and they talk about things like lot sizes, the size of the house if it is one story, two story, number of garages. They also talk some about sewers, fences, mostly things that align exactly with the city laws. I read every word of them multiple times. When I went down to the record of deeds they told me that all houses have "restrictive covenants" and that they do not have to be related to a HOA. That if there was a mandatory HOA there would be one detailing it also.

Quote:

2) does this group of homes with CC&R's own any common property? Roads? Drainage easements? Lights? walls?

There is a subdivision sign in the middle of the road at the front that is it. They also pay for the street lights, which are owned by the same electric company that I pay my electricity to. I'd be more than happy to pay the bill for my street light myself if that was a concern. No roads, no common property, no amenities, lights or walls.

Quote:

3) I second to the fourth power asking around and getting a real attorney's opinion, after BOTH of you have read the CC&R's, and the letter sent around.

This has already been started, just waiting for the attorney to get back with me. I contacted multiple real estate attorneys and they all told me I needed a litigation attorney.

Quote:

4) And, just an FYI, placing anything not US Postal related into a US Postal Mailbox is a crime, so yes, if the group didn't put stamps on the letters, they probably didn't want to put them IN the mail boxes. Hanging things outside isn't illegal. It's why rural newspaper delivery often hang a separate box under the mailbox, for the paper. If it goes into the box, it's US Postal Service business. And must be "paid" for.

This was not a question on what was legal to place outside my mailbox or inside my mailbox, it was a question about a legal means of communication. Is a document placed outside my mailbox with a 75% chance of blowing away in the wind a legal means of communication?
MichelleK5 (New York)
Posts: 161
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BrianB on 03/08/2016 7:34 PM
Couple things:

1) I am completely unaware of how you have CC&R's without having an HOA. It may well be that you can, I just don't understand it (like quantum physics... I don't doubt it exists, I just know nothing about it). My first advice is really, really read the CC&R's... and while you do, maybe someone here will educate me on how you have rules/regulations attached to a title, but no association running with it. Who attached them?

2) does this group of homes with CC&R's own any common property? Roads? Drainage easements? Lights? walls?

3) I second to the fourth power asking around and getting a real attorney's opinion, after BOTH of you have read the CC&R's, and the letter sent around.

4) And, just an FYI, placing anything not US Postal related into a US Postal Mailbox is a crime, so yes, if the group didn't put stamps on the letters, they probably didn't want to put them IN the mail boxes. Hanging things outside isn't illegal. It's why rural newspaper delivery often hang a separate box under the mailbox, for the paper. If it goes into the box, it's US Postal Service business. And must be "paid" for.


LOL.. and here I thought my neighbor, who lives in the community full time, only had a second mail box because he received too many newspapers to fit into his "regular" mailbox.

Thanks BrianB, this city girl learned something new .
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BrianB on 03/08/2016 7:34 PM
Couple things:

1) I am completely unaware of how you have CC&R's without having an HOA.


Brian, you really need to get out more. I have owned three homes so far and all three had CC&R's but none had an HOA or even a provision for starting one at a later date. The first home was in a subdivision built in the early 1950's and the other two both dated to the 1970's.

In each case, the CC&R's were directed primarily at what might be built. Once construction was complete the CC&R's had little impact on the homeowners. I recall that the first home had a restriction on putting up guest houses (which were once quite common in my area) but it was up to the other owners to enforce that restriction through civil action.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Cameron,

Without reading your CC&Rs, nobody can be positive of anything.

Typically, the CC&Rs create the Assocaition.
This is done by the language within the CC&Rs.

Typically, if there is common area (land, storm water retention ponds, streets, sidewalks, etc.) or common amenities (playgrounds, clubhouse, pools, recreation facilities, etc.) or common services (trash/recycling, snow removal, etc.) that must be maintained or provided, then this would have created the Association. Again, this is done by language within your CC&Rs.

Typically, if the CC&Rs specify that everyone pays their fair share (per lot, per percentage owned, etc.) then there is an Association with mandatory membership.

The Association may or may not be active.
However, that doesn't mean that one doesn't exist.
CameronM (Tennessee)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 03/08/2016 8:33 PM
Posted By BrianB on 03/08/2016 7:34 PM
Couple things:

1) I am completely unaware of how you have CC&R's without having an HOA.


Brian, you really need to get out more. I have owned three homes so far and all three had CC&R's but none had an HOA or even a provision for starting one at a later date. The first home was in a subdivision built in the early 1950's and the other two both dated to the 1970's.

In each case, the CC&R's were directed primarily at what might be built. Once construction was complete the CC&R's had little impact on the homeowners. I recall that the first home had a restriction on putting up guest houses (which were once quite common in my area) but it was up to the other owners to enforce that restriction through civil action.

This sounds exactly like the two sections of restrictive covenants that are attached to my deed.
ValK2 (Tennessee)
Posts: 65
Posted:
As a resident in an HOA Community, I have found that HOA's are woefully misunderstood in Tennessee. Attorneys who truly know anything about how an HOA functions and who can provide experienced legal advice are few and far between--virtually non existent in Tennessee.

There is one firm, (Bob) Dinkelspiel, Rasmussen & Mink, based in Memphis, who are experienced in this aspect of Tennessee law. I found no one else who had any real concept of HOA law, in spite of several who professed, because they had helped to write Covenants or By -laws, that they were "HOA Experts".

If I understand correctly, there is legislation floating around the bowels of Nashville which would pull things together. Currently HOA "law" is part "non profit" and part "commercial/real estate". It takes a real mind bender to decipher what applies to an HOA, and what is superfluous. Ask ten attorneys and you will get ten interpretations of what applies in your situation.

Good luck finding an expert, and getting sound, workable advice.

PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Let us go directly to the 'heart' of the issue:

Original Poster stated:

I moved into this subdivision specifically because I did not want anyone to tell me what I could or could not do with or on my property.


and

I have gone down to the record of deeds to verify this. There are some CC&R's but nothing about the HOA.


CC&Rs = Covenants Conditions and RESTRICTIONS

Hence, the OP, not wanting restrictions, bought a home with RECORDED restrictions.

What part of 'read before you sign (in this case the deed) was not comprehended when taught multiple times by her schools?

However,

Let the Jabberwocks continue their braying.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 03/08/2016 8:40 PM
Cameron,

Without reading your CC&Rs, nobody can be positive of anything.

Typically, the CC&Rs create the Assocaition.
This is done by the language within the CC&Rs.

Typically, if there is common area (land, storm water retention ponds, streets, sidewalks, etc.) or common amenities (playgrounds, clubhouse, pools, recreation facilities, etc.) or common services (trash/recycling, snow removal, etc.) that must be maintained or provided, then this would have created the Association. Again, this is done by language within your CC&Rs.

Typically, if the CC&Rs specify that everyone pays their fair share (per lot, per percentage owned, etc.) then there is an Association with mandatory membership.

The Association may or may not be active.
However, that doesn't mean that one doesn't exist.

? What do you mean TimB ?

? The OP should actually read the Covenants to which he/she agreed by signing for the deed ?

! NOOOOOOOOOOOO the HORROR !

! AAAAAAAAAAAAH my eyes are now open !
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 03/09/2016 5:31 AM
Posted By TimB4 on 03/08/2016 8:40 PM
Cameron,

Without reading your CC&Rs, nobody can be positive of anything.



? What do you mean TimB ?

I suppose you are attempting humor.

If not:

I was merely pointing out that our advice and opinion on what we think may be within her CC&Rs.
Without actually reading them ourselves the advice may be spot on or not applicable at all.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
I guess the key word is/was 'attempting'.

Not humor, sarcasm
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
(moderator, delete as needed)

Aimed at the OP, not Tim.

CameronM (Tennessee)
Posts: 9
Posted:
I feel like not only have we gone way off topic we must be talking about two different things. I have no problems with the restrictive covenants that are currently in place on my deed. Why? Because they don't tell me what I can and cannot do on my property. Example "A two story home must have at least 2000 square feet", "Each dwelling must have a 2 car garage", "Each property must be hooked up to the city sewer". You see how all of these things are just restrictions from the early 1970s based around what could and could not be built.

Again...There is nothing in there restricting what you can and cannot do on your property. For those unfamiliar with a HOA here are some examples for a subdivision nearby:
- Cant have a boat parked in the driveway
- Cant have a visible shed
- Cant park on the street

Why would I want anyone to restrict the use of my property?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Cameron

You ask:

Why would I want anyone to restrict the use of my property?

You knew restrictions were in place when you purchased. What you are really saying is you want to be able to pick and choose the restrictions to obey. It does not work that way. Either agree and abide, or look elsewhere.
CameronM (Tennessee)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Thanks to the few people that actually helped out with advice on this, I really appreciate your responses. I will report back after I talk to the attorney on what the laws are around creating a mandatory HOA.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
The HOA can NOT impose any restrictions outside of the Covenant.

The HOA's purpose is to execute the requirements of the CCRs.

eg.
Maintain a storm water retention pond.
Maintain a subdivision sign.
Obtain insurance for any 'common area'.
etc.

I suggest you read, reread, and then REALLY study the Covenant to see what, if any, is owned 'in common' and ascertain any 'authority', or actual requirement for, the HOA in question.

The Covenant would roughly equate to the Constitution.

The HOA would be the Executive Branch.

The Members themselves (the Legislature) directly vote for any Covent changes.

The HOA probably would incorporate in order to shield its' members from direct personal liability regarding any 'common areas'. However, there is no legal requirement to incorporate.

BEST OF LUCK

and next time

CAVEAT EMPTOR

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 03/09/2016 10:58 AM

The HOA can NOT impose any restrictions outside of the Covenant.

Realistically, I disagree.

An HOA can impose restrictions outside of the CC&Rs and often do.
They may also enforce those restrictions.

Will such restrictions hold up if challenged through the courts?
Probably not.

Until they are actually challenged, the Board (unfortunately) may realistically do what they desire. They may be overstepping their authority, they may be knowingly or unknowingly be in violation of applicable statutes. The checks and balances for all Associations is the membership. If the membership is apathetic they allow those who are willing to serve to serve and make the decisions (good, bad or indifferent) that affect everyone within their Association.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
The HOA can NOT impose any restrictions outside of the Covenant.


Allow me to rephrase:

The HOA may not / should not impose any restrictions outside of the Covenant.
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
The way I read it is that there are restrictions, like "no this" and "no that" but there are no restrictions stating there will be such-and-such HOA running the show, or any provision allowing for the formation of one. There is where the problem the OP has - an organization claiming to be the official HOA is claiming authority, but where exactly does this authority originate?

When I think back to my neighborhood, I had restrictions but it didn't have a HOA. It did lay out directions in case I wanted to form one but that was it. The corporation claiming to be a HOA was really a neighboring HOA that had a kind of a handshake deal with the developer that gave them authority over any neighborhood with similar sounding restrictions. You can imagine how that played out. When I reviewed my documents it made no mention of this organization yet they were threatening legal action. When they attempted to rewrite the restrictions they even wrote themselves into authority over everyone!

Because of how these things could progress is why I recommend consulting an attorney first. They may know some weird law that permits such a thing in Tennessee.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
CameronM (Tennessee) :

1- Whatever your own outcome will be, diligence doesn't serve potential buyers if it is left until after purchasing into communities whose root deeds ( & title abstracts ) cite some form of statutory condo or of criss-crossing covenants on end user private property titles. Your state may allow a secondary issue indirectly by 'implication'.

Anecdotals, road signs, etc = useless. Realtors are not credible sources about this issue.

If a potential buyer's state laws expressly allow a process to convert a voluntary shared ownership association into something with mandatory 'pay/comply/pass along' powers, then buying into a potential conversion process had better be credibly & professionally checked beforehand ( further within the site-specific declaration or CCRs.) If skillsets are rare, even more reason for caution.

Nothing stops 100 % of current owners from expressly covenanting their own property into some sort of legal vise that could run with title and bind subsequent owners.

Comments at this site - eg the Florida MRTA battles - show that all sorts of voodoo may be attempted to impose restrictions legally exceeding those that may be in place.

The judicial process may dislike or refuse that, but the reality is that imbalance of power or toxic coercion or ignorance can try to slam-dunk buyers. Or may have been getting away with it for years . . .

2 - My own Building Scheme community has an enormous waterfront, some private roads & hinterland owned as tenancy in common by 70 sets of owners like me. The 'neighbourhood watch' type association is NOT 'mandatory' association Voluntary collegial maintenance & voluntary contribution have worked well here but constantly have to respected & watched closely.

WayneM4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 2
Posted:
Thank you for recognizing our firm.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Wayne,

Welcome to the forum.

With the understanding that the opinions offered here are layman opinion based on our personal experience and personal understanding of any research we may have done, I would be interested in your take on the issue.

I realize that you may or may not be an attorney (for all we know you may have only spent the night at a Holiday Inn - if you remember the old commercials ), but you specified a thank you (I expect) to the OP for mentioning a firm.

Have most of the comments been correct or, at least, on the right track or are we way off base?
WayneM4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 2
Posted:
There are multiple issues here. First, Declarations of Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions, generally, are not attached to a deed. Yes, you can put a restriction in a deed, but those are not related to an HOA. A deed, usually but not always, will say that it conveys title subject to certain matters of record. Those matters should reference a set of CCRs. That is your first clue that there is an HOA. But, a deed usually has an out stating that the conveyance is also subject to "all matters of record".

In Tennessee, there is no general HOA Act. A mandatory HOA is governed by a Tennessee non-profit corporation (generally, I've seen a few oddballs), and as such the Tennessee Non-Profit Corporation Act applies. In addition, the corporation is governed by its Charter and Bylaws.

The use of the property is governed by the CCRs, which are administered by the HOA. There is a difference between CCRs and Protective Covenants. Protective Covenants are restrictions on square footage, pets, nuisances, etc., without establishing an HOA, usually Protective Covenants are contained in CCRs. CCRs work in tandem with an HOA, usually because there is common area involved. The HOA owns the common area (for liability purposes). The CCRs provide for assessments, lien rights, and usually architectural covenants.

A neighborhood association (think a neighborhood watch) can be part of an HOA, it can also be voluntary.

Unless CCRs exist at the time of the development of the Association (i.e., the developer records the CCRs with the plat), it is hard to create a mandatory HOA (I've done it, but it is hard). Think about it, you are ceding rights over property. To do so requires the approval of all property owners. So, if a neighborhood has no mandatory HOA, a subset of neighbors cannot subsequently create one that governs all the property. Thus, you end up with a "swiss cheese" effect. But if the developer creates the HOA and records CCRs, then the CCRs impact all property encumbered by the CCRs. Once the property is encumbered by CCRs then their provisions may be amended as provided by the CCRs.

In this instance, if there was no mandatory HOA to begin with one can be created, but it would only apply to the lots that opt into it by recording a joinder. Once those lots have opted in, they are encumbered. Generally, I do not recommend this type of development as it allows lot owners who are not members to free ride on the goodwill of those that are members.

Anyway, that is a postage stamp analysis.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WayneM4 on 04/21/2016 7:54 AM

There is a difference between CCRs and Protective Covenants. Protective Covenants are restrictions on square footage, pets, nuisances, etc., without establishing an HOA, usually Protective Covenants are contained in CCRs. CCRs work in tandem with an HOA, usually because there is common area involved. The HOA owns the common area (for liability purposes). The CCRs provide for assessments, lien rights, and usually architectural covenants.

Interesting. I did not know that there was a difference, much less what that difference was.
Good information.

Quote:
Posted By WayneM4 on 04/21/2016 7:54 AM

Anyway, that is a postage stamp analysis.

Thank you.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Wayne M4Tenn : Thank you also. Good advice travels far, including to way up here.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
The Tennessee Supreme Court has stated that β€œno set of covenants should be given any general retroactive effect.” E. Sevier County Util. Dist. v. Wachovia Bank & Trust Co., 570 S.W.2d 850, 853 (Tenn. 1978); see also Land Developers, Inc. v. Maxwell, 537 S.W.2d 904, 913 (Tenn. 1976); Graham v. Edmondson, No. 01A01-9809-CH-00482, 1999 WL 476466, at *4 (Tenn. Ct. App. July 12, 1999). Generally, β€œthe date when title [is] transferred [is] the critical point after which amendments [can] not be enforced against the purchaser.” Conn v. Powell, 1984 WL 588785, at *3 (Tenn. Ct. App. Nov. 5, 1984). However, where a buyer of land has notice that the property is covered by restrictive covenants and that other lot owners may amend those covenants, the buyer may be bound by amendments made subsequent to the acquisition of title. Id. (citing 26 C.J.S. Deeds Β§Β§ 167(3), 168, 169 (1956)). Notwithstanding that principle, β€œa provision that any of the restrictions imposed may be modified or amended does not authorize any new or additional restrictions to be imposed, but only authorizes existing restrictions to be made less harsh.” Id. (quoting 26 C.J.S. Deeds Β§ 168 (1956)).

Source: Mendelson v Bornblum. 2005 appellate decision.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
EricH13 (Tennessee)
Posts: 13
Posted:
Wayne, would you mind commenting on "Tennessee - Which Rules: Warranty Deed or MDCCR?" Thanks for any clarification you may offer.

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