💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

LarryD13 (Texas)
Posts: 25
Posted:

We have a chronic offender in our HOA who has parked a multitude of things in front of their house in violation of HOA rules. The HOA management company writes the usual letters, time passes and eventually the offending item is removed before a fine is triggered. This can take 2 or more months and all the while the crap is sitting in plain view. First, its a junk car. Then, a boat. Then,a junk appliance and then the boat shows up again. The net result is no fines are paid but junk sits out in plain view for several months during a year.

Do any of your HOAS have a procedure for addressing the situation I have described above? Please describe it and compare it to your normal procedure.

Thank you
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Our policy is that we inform the owner of the violation first. If they refuse to fix it in the timeline, then we get more aggressive. We then notify them that WE will pay for it to be removed/fixed and send them the bill. We don't promise the "cheapest" price will be paid. If they do NOT pay that bill, then we LIEN them for that amount owed. Which the lien can have interest, filing costs, and legal fees added to it. I find it works better than fines to resolve such issues. Check your CC&R's if this is such an option. It is in ours.

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Larry,

From your previous threads I know that the developer is still in control of the Association.

Although I have no first hand knowledge, from what I've read, the developer will either enforce stringently or rarely.

My suggestion would be to contact the Developer and point out the issue. Explain that it may drive away potential buyers to the development. This may help. If it doesn't, then you will likely need to simply wait until the Association is turned over to the members.

Our enforcement policy is:

1) Informal warning (written or verbal)
2) Formal warning (30 days to correct)
3) Notice of Hearing before the Architectural Committee
4) If not resolved, Notice of Hearing before the Board
5) Court

Yes, such a policy can be taken advantage of.
However, we feel it's fair for everyone.
It's up to the Board to take the appropriate steps and use the correct language when someone takes advantage of the policy and cite it as a continuing violation (vs. a one time issue).
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Are you on the board, Larry?

By in "front of their house," do you mean in the street? On his property" In his driveway?

What is the exact wording in your CC&Rs or rules about this type of violation?

What is the exact wording in your rules about violations & fines? In other words, are their rimes limits and limits to fines?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
If it's a junk car, boat or anything on wheels (or attached to something on wheels), our security officers post a yellow sticker on the window with instructions to call one of them to discuss the matter. If the owner doesn't call and the thing remains the next time our security officer comes by, he calls a tow truck. Junk cars (aka hoopties) are why our association began hiring security officers (they started work about a year before I moved here.)

As you may recall from some of my previous posts, the junk appliances, sofas, water heaters (and at least one toilet!) tend to wind up somewhere in our dumpster shed, which of course, the city doesn't pick up and our handymen have to remove and get rid of it. Last summer, I did see one guy drive through and visit our various dumpsters to remove certain crap - I thought he was yet another illegal dumpster (and had already taken a photo of his plates!) when he removed one piece explaining he drives through some neighbors looking for metal he can turn around and sell for scrap. I know taking stuff out of the garbage is supposed to be illegal, but frankly, I was happy he was doing this!

As for other things (like the former renter who had one of those rental storage things in the parking lot), we send out a letter and if there's no response, the board will decide if it wants to turn the matter over to our attorney. Sometimes the letter is enough, but in the case of the rental storage thingy, our president called the company. Turns out they were already ticked off at the resident because they hadn't paid the rental fee, so they came out and hauled it away. Don't know if anything was in it, but who cares?

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 03/07/2016 2:41 PM
My suggestion would be to contact the Developer and point out the issue. Explain that it may drive away potential buyers to the development. This may help. If it doesn't, then you will likely need to simply wait until the Association is turned over to the members.

Our enforcement policy is:

1) Informal warning (written or verbal)
2) Formal warning (30 days to correct)
3) Notice of Hearing before the Architectural Committee
4) If not resolved, Notice of Hearing before the Board
5) Court

From my take on what Larry posted, the problem is the violations are always corrected within the "30 days to correct" period. Lather, rinse, repeat. I can see where that's frustrating and I don't think that a board post-turnover is necessarily going to be in a better position to deal with the chronic offender.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 03/07/2016 8:46 PM

From my take on what Larry posted, the problem is the violations are always corrected within the "30 days to correct" period. Lather, rinse, repeat. I can see where that's frustrating and I don't think that a board post-turnover is necessarily going to be in a better position to deal with the chronic offender.

Expecting that the Developer doesn't want to label the issue as repeat violations, once the members have control they can label the issue as repeat violations and take additional steps. Another option is to specify, through a resolution, a time frame that would identify a repeat violation.

For example, in our pet policy, we specify that any repeat violation (in this case, picking up after your pet) within 180 days is considered a 2nd violation and a monetary penalty is assessed.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
We also have in our policy the same thing as Tim's HOA does. Slate's clean after 180 days. The problems that Larry complains about would be considered "repeats" in our HOA even though the junked items are different.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Interesting. I hadn't considered that the developer wouldn't want to draw attention to the fact that there's a chronic offender. Makes sense.
JerryD5 (Colorado)
Posts: 218
Posted:
We had a similar issue with one of our homeowners. We used a general, catch all part of our covenants to send them a letter (something about property nuisance or clutter). Eventually they would correct it before it went to the next level. Our management company at the time said if they correct it, the slate is basically wiped clean. This homeowner received 9 violation letters within a 18-month period. Our covenents also says that any homeowner receiving 4 violation letters (no time frame indicated) the HOA attorney can send them a letter. Our past board was reluctant to engage the lawyer. We switched management companys and I was able to persuade enough newly elected board members to be more aggressive with this homeowner. We voted to have our attorney send them a letter about all their violations (though we only listed 4 major ones). They were given a 30-day fix period (which they didn't meet) before we initiated the fine process. We did give them a hearing and found them guilty of the violations and another 10-day fix it period. They went on vacation instead. That generated an increased fine They were fined a total of $75 ($25 and $50). Only then did they realize we were serious and fixed all their violations. They haven't had a violation since and it's been over 2 years.
LarryD13 (Texas)
Posts: 25
Posted:

I want to thank everyone for responding. To answer a few questions...We are under builder control via a management company but expect that to end within 6 to 12 months. Our CCRs specifically prohibit boats and junk vehicles but they are a bit vague on junk appliances. The CCRs allow for fines, specify a series of warning letters but do not specify time intervals for warning letters or amount of fines. The boat appears in the driveway and in the road in front of the house. Likewise for the junk car. The junk drier was in the front side of the house next to the garage and the driveway.
I contacted the HOA management company via e mail and asked if they had a chronic offender policy and to formulate one if the answer is no. I'm still waiting on a response and will most likely wait till hell freezes over.

When the time gets close for the transition from builder to resident control I'm sure the management company will be more responsive to our needs. But that will be too late. The residents will determine what to do about chronic offenders and also what to do with the management company.

And speaking of transition, If anyone has the name of a good HOA lawyer in the Fort Worth, Tx area please e mail me at [email protected].

LarryD13 (Texas)
Posts: 25
Posted:

I want to thank everyone for responding. To answer a few questions...We are under builder control via a management company but expect that to end within 6 to 12 months. Our CCRs specifically prohibit boats and junk vehicles but they are a bit vague on junk appliances. The CCRs allow for fines, specify a series of warning letters but do not specify time intervals for warning letters or amount of fines. The boat appears in the driveway and in the road in front of the house. Likewise for the junk car. The junk drier was in the front side of the house next to the garage and the driveway.
I contacted the HOA management company via e mail and asked if they had a chronic offender policy and to formulate one if the answer is no. I'm still waiting on a response and will most likely wait till hell freezes over.

When the time gets close for the transition from builder to resident control I'm sure the management company will be more responsive to our needs. But that will be too late. The residents will determine what to do about chronic offenders and also what to do with the management company.

And speaking of transition, If anyone has the name of a good HOA lawyer in the Fort Worth, Tx area please e mail me at [email protected].

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Generally, the CC&Rs give the Board the authority to set fines and make other rules. Do yours, Larry?

There is a board of directors now, right? Who's on it? Can you complain to them instead of the PM?
KathyR10 (Oregon)
Posts: 1
Posted:
Your association should also have a set of House Rules. This is the area where you clarify such things as fines, additional items not covered in the CC&R's, and such. House Rules do not override Bylaws or CC&Rs, but rather clarify them.

For instance, in ours, our CC&Rs do not deal with security screen doors. Our House Rules do, but outlining the type and color that can be used. Our House Rules also clarify such things as the length of time a visitors vehicle can be parked in a driveway; fine schedules; etc.

A chronic abuser needs to be dealt with sooner, than later. Your House Rules Fine Schedule should outline the procedure. First a warning with a time line; then a second letter with a small fine, with a timeline to correct; then he fine goes up with the third notice.

We, currently, have a homeowner who has violated many rules, over the past ten years. We finally have board members who were willing to take this seriously. Our attorney sent the homeowner a letter to go to arbitration. The homeowner refused and stated that they planned to sue the board as well as me, personally. Our attorney informed their attorney that we would see them in court. They came back with an offer to settle, so we are now in that process.

My advice, get on top of violations right away, so not wait as long as our board(s) did. It is frustrating to other homeowners, when one is allowed to get away this violations.
DouglasM5 (Florida)
Posts: 1
Posted:
In our community our fining policy lays out that if the same incident occurs within 12 months of the prior notices, the process simply picks up where it left off rather than starting all over again.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Good words, Kathy & Douglas and welcome to the Forum.

To take off from Douglas' remarks, we do the same but it's at the Board's discretion--sometimes 6 mo., sometimes, 1yr.

We also practice what Kathy mentions. Our CC&Rs give the board quite a lot of latitude to make rules that elaborate on general categories. The Board also has the authority to set fines. Some states, though, don't seem to allow fines--don't remember which ones.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here