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RQ (Mississippi)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Good afternoon,

I have stumbled upon an issue that I have not dealt with before. Recently the members of our HOA voted to remove a clause in the bylaws that allowed owners whose deeds had been filed prior to a certain date to own multiple lots while only paying one (one!) HOA fee. Everyone else after that date had to pay one fee per month per lot. This benefitted 15 residents out of a 120 homes in an HOA that has about 450 lots with around 270 individual lot owners. (Some people only own lot(s) with no home on the lot but have access to the land for hunting and fishing purposes).

This change in our bylaws prompted some of the "group of 15" to deed their lots to other people so that they were not responsible for the same amount of HOA fees that everyone else pays. I understand that it's a financial burden to only have one fee per month for 6 lots then balloon up to 6 fees per month. I get it.

One of our elderly homeowners is attempting to sign over a lot to her granddaughter so she can take over that lot's monthly HOA fee and reduce the burden on the grandmother. During that process the granddaughter and her lawyer discovered that the deed to the property was a Life Estate Deed where the homeowner had deeded the property to her sons (the remaindermen) but that she may live on it until her death.

I reviewed our bylaws and CC&Rs and the only verbiage I can find says that the each property owner on the deed is responsible for HOA fees separately. For example, if two friends go halfsies on one lot they both pay an HOA fee each since they are not married.

Does this mean the HOA has been should have been collecting HOA fees from all persons on the deed like we treat all other properties? I'm definitely not trying to make this into a money grab but after years of the "good ol boy" system and shady HOA fee arrangements between board members and residents, our HOA has elected new board members and we are trying to make the rules apply evenly across the board and be fair to everyone.

Has anyone here dealt with a Life Estate Deed, and how were the HOA fees/dues set up?

Thank you,
RQ

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Wow! If I ever wanted to complicate matters I think assessing each individual joint-owner would do it for me. My own association is made up of large rural lots, some of which are owned by many people jointly, but they only owe one assessment amongst them. It is hard enough to track down some of these owners so I cannot imagine trying to track down each and every one of them to wring an assessment from them.

I never heard of a Life Deed Estate until now. I found a website that discusses them at http://www.deedclaim.com/life-estate/ My understanding is that granny is the one and only legal owner; her sons are not the legal owners now and will not be the legal owners until granny dies. Since their ownership is prospective and based on a future event, I do not see where the sons would owe an assessment to your association.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
I agree with Larry.

I would have also questioned that section of the Bylaws that was removed. I would have thought that such language (to waive assessments for owners of multiple lots) would have been in conflict with the CC&Rs (which typically specify that all lots pay their share). When two documents conflict, the higher precedent document would have to be complied with (which, if a conflict existed, would have made your Bylaw section unenforceable). Fortunately, it's no longer an issue of potential conflict as the section was removed from your bylaws.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Agree with Larry and Tim that sons have no estate in the land until granny dies.

If you want to help out granny, don't see why her sons can't grant grandaughter an estate in the land for the life of granny. Granny signs a quitclaim deed from herself to granddaughter to get herself off the deed.

Voila. Granddaughter is title holder instead of granny til granny dies. Sons are title holders after granny dies.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RQ on 02/29/2016 7:23 PM
Good afternoon,

I have stumbled upon an issue that I have not dealt with before. Recently the members of our HOA voted to remove a clause in the bylaws that allowed owners whose deeds had been filed prior to a certain date to own multiple lots while only paying one (one!) HOA fee. Everyone else after that date had to pay one fee per month per lot. This benefitted 15 residents out of a 120 homes in an HOA that has about 450 lots with around 270 individual lot owners. (Some people only own lot(s) with no home on the lot but have access to the land for hunting and fishing purposes).

This change in our bylaws prompted some of the "group of 15" to deed their lots to other people so that they were not responsible for the same amount of HOA fees that everyone else pays. I understand that it's a financial burden to only have one fee per month for 6 lots then balloon up to 6 fees per month. I get it.

One of our elderly homeowners is attempting to sign over a lot to her granddaughter so she can take over that lot's monthly HOA fee and reduce the burden on the grandmother. During that process the granddaughter and her lawyer discovered that the deed to the property was a Life Estate Deed where the homeowner had deeded the property to her sons (the remaindermen) but that she may live on it until her death.

I reviewed our bylaws and CC&Rs and the only verbiage I can find says that the each property owner on the deed is responsible for HOA fees separately. For example, if two friends go halfsies on one lot they both pay an HOA fee each since they are not married.

Does this mean the HOA has been should have been collecting HOA fees from all persons on the deed like we treat all other properties? I'm definitely not trying to make this into a money grab but after years of the "good ol boy" system and shady HOA fee arrangements between board members and residents, our HOA has elected new board members and we are trying to make the rules apply evenly across the board and be fair to everyone.

Has anyone here dealt with a Life Estate Deed, and how were the HOA fees/dues set up?

Thank you,
RQ


RQ Miss :

1- I pay a separate fee for a second Building Scheme lot and have absolutely no objection to "fairness".

But I could see ( and actually heard in a former road association) some persuasive objections where the group venture evolved as "personal licence" scenario. Just because an end user's legal description contains 2 separate parcels, for a non-realty membership scenario should there be 2 personal "contributions" or "memberships" ? Like having to pay 2 hunting licenses because one at a time someone might use one truck or a different one ?

2- Ending "grandfathered" exemptions for multiple parcel lot fees, doesn't deem to have an obvious link to whether or not multiple owners of a single lot are - or are not - liable "jointly & severally".

Could you be misconstruing something that was intended to mean that for each property a fee is payable and that where multiply-owned the lot's contribution is owed "jointly and severally". That means that a creditor can force payment of entire debt against any one of the joint & several debtors.

It is VERY tough to believe that your CCRs & by-laws actually purport to multiply realty fees on the basis of the number of multiple owners. ie that lot A owned by an individual would be liable for a (real property) contribution only one third the amount of property B owned by Tom, Dick & Harriet ( jointly & severally )?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
RQ,

Actually, the individual doesn't have to place anyone's name on a deed as I don't see why the Association would care who writes the check.

In my Association, we actually have a renter who sends us the check every month. This has gone on so long that we send the assessment information to both the renter and the owner.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
RQ (Miss) practical advice from TimB4. If the elderly occupant has a life estate type of variant or non-transferable right to occupy short of full absolute fee simple (dower/curtesy/estate pur sa vie etc - the obscure stuff ), then she possibly has "more grab" than any other individuals.

The 'remaindermen's' reversion whatever may may be contingent on their being alive or their potential possession beating the perpetuities rules.

Why not leave to the undergrad law students to argue . . ? ie at least make sure the address for lawful service is correct. Always good to have on file next of kin/ power of attorney while alive . .

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