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LindaW3 (Washington)
Posts: 1
Posted:
My husband and I bought an investment property/home for our children last Nov 2006 and they moved in.
When we were at the closing, there was mention of a HOA, but no paperwork and certainly no presence of a HOA.
After about a month or two, there was no mail, and because there was no mailbox in the yard, my son thought he had to buy one and install it in order to receive mail. None of us have ever had any experience with HOA before. So he installed the mailbox and waited for mail to be delivered. The mail person came to the door and informed him that there was a common area mailbox and that he could get his mail there. We didn’t even know where the common area mailbox was located. Finally my son found the mailbox and realized that a key was needed to get the mail out. So we contacted the Escrow company who didn’t know anything about a mailbox key, so she contacted the previous owner; he stated that he knew nothing of a mailbox key and that he had purchased the house site-unseen and after his renters moved out he sold the house.
We then went to a hardware store and purchased a new lock for the mailbox, popped the old one out and installed the new one. Problem solved.

We recently received a statement for HOA dues and I called the phone number on the statement to ask what the dues where for since there had been no presence up to this point, we had no information about HOA.

A person who identified herself as the bookkeeper answered the phone, I asked her what the dues where for. She said she didn’t know, so I asked her who would know and how could I get a copy of the By-laws? She stated that she didn’t know that either. I asked who got the money and she said that the Treasurer did. I asked if there were other officers and she said she didn’t know. So I asked her to have the Treasurer call me so that I could ask her for a copy of the By-laws. She said that she didn’t have the Treasurers phone number and had to wait until she called her. So I said please give her the message next time she called. I stated several times that I was not yelling at her about this, that I was just upset about the situation. She said okay and we hung-up. The next day a female called me without identifying herself and was yelling at me and I finally figured out who it was I was trying to ask her questions about the HOA and she continued to talk over me, not allowing me to communicate with her at all. She said that I didn’t have the right to yell at the bookkeeper about the key for the mailbox, that it wasn’t their problem. I finally got to say something, so I asked her for information about the HOA, she said she didn’t have to provide me anything that I should get a hold of the Real Estate agent, Escrow and ask them for it, when I said they didn’t have any information and this is why I was asking her she stated that is why we paid Title Insurance. I didn’t understand why she was saying this and told her this, she was barely speaking English and I don’t know what language it is. I called her a name and she hung up. I realize that calling her a name was not very civilized, but she just plain angered me so much, I couldn’t think straight.

Next thing I know she is over at the house yelling at the kids about cleaning up the mess they had made and that she was going to hire someone to come and clean the mess if they didn’t and bill the owner.
I had already chewed the kids out for making such a mess of the property the week before when my husband and I had visited on our way somewhere else. We were discussing with them the best time to bring the truck over so they could load it up and we could take it to the dump, we decided to do it the weekend of June 30, 2007.
Since these arrangements have been made, the Treasurer has been at the house twice and once she brought someone else with her to mediate. I am not getting the complete story from my kids, and if she wont’ meet with me or call me, I don’t see a way to resolve this. She hasn’t identified herself during all this time so no one knows her name or even where she lives or if she lives in the neighborhood. My children keep telling her (I don’t even know her name, and neither do the kids), to call me. She says she doesn’t have to and that this is what the money is for, too clean up after people like them.
I told my kids to tell her that if she steps one foot on our property and tries to have anything taken by herself or anyone else they should immediately call the police and then me. She also is claiming that my son is riding some go-cart around the complex and annoying all of the neighbors. He doesn’t even own a go-cart, but she doesn’t listen when they try to explain this.
I don’t mind paying dues if I know what for, there is no communication with her and I don’t know how to resolve this issue. I think she is harassing my kids and now they will not be able to have a place to live anymore because she is making their lives miserable. Since this is part of the reason we purchased the house and she is ruining that, I think we should sue her for interfering with use of our property and making my kids leave their home.

If anyone has any suggestions, please tell me

AndreaW (North Carolina)
Posts: 57
Posted:
What state is the property located in? If there is an existing HOA, is it the management company you called? If so, why not try meeting with one of their representatives so they can give you the governing documents. Once you have read them then you can defend yourselves properly and through the proper authorities. From what I have read here, most states where there are HOA's would have some record of the managing party and somewhere along the way bylaws or CCR's would have to have been filed with the city or county.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
With all due respect, homeowner fees are due and payable regardless of whether you know what they go for or if you even agree to what they go for. Not trying to be difficult, but you could wind up in a serious situation if you don't pay and then somehow your property gets foreclosed on you. So it would probably be in your best interest to get those paid first while you are on your quest to determine what is going on with the HOA.

Next, you really should contact the title attorney or someone associated with the closing and get them to provide you a copy of the Deed Conditions, Covenants and Restrictions, as well as any By-laws. The By-laws would be nice to have, but the document you really need in order to find out the scope of the HOA are the Deed Conditions, Covenants and Restrictions, which are commonly referred to as CC&Rs.

Once you know at least the name of the HOA, you should be able to look the directors up online at your Secretary of State's website. (MOST, but not all, states have an online search capability for that information. Often you can find the By-laws there, too, since they are not filed with the DEED like the CC&Rs are.)

It's a shame the Treasurer has to be so difficult, so I'm sorry you have to deal with someone like that.

I suppose another question I have is, how did you contact the Bookkeeper? Was the invoice for the dues on any kind of letterhead? If so, that might be either the name of a Management Company (in which case I find it odd that they would not have copies of the by-laws or CC&Rs), or at least the name of the HOA.

At any rate, I hope you get this all sorted out. Sounds like a dreadful experience and I can see why you are getting frustrated.
TracyT (Maryland)
Posts: 228
Posted:
Some of the neighbors might have information on the BOD (or management company). Good Luck.
GloriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 829
Posted:
At the time of closing your closing attorney had to do a Title search. In this search it would have come up as a "Deed Restricted" community. Lots of blame on other people where the blame should go is the closing attorney, who should have informed you, or the realtor that you were purchasing in a deed restricted community.

You need to get a copy of the governing documents and see what restrictions there are within the community. Unfortunately you went in blind and no one is showing you the light.

If there is an MC get their number and they will help assist you. If not find the board and get help there.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
It is viewed as the BUYER's responsibility to be informed of the Convenants and Restrictions. They are PUBLIC documents and available at the COUNTY courthouse in the Records department. Although many would like to say that the closing attorney, mortgage, real estate agent, seller, or the HOA itself should inform, it's NOT required in most states. HOA laws are pretty poor in states that don't deal with HOA's much. HOA laws are stronger in states such as California, Arizona, Texas, Florida, and Colorado.

It's NOT unusual for many to NOT be informed of the existance of a HOA. I had many residents who believed their Escrow accounts covered the dues. They do NOT. HOA dues are much like utility bills. They have to be paid or get cut off. That's why I am a little surprised you didn't get a hint from the mortgage company. They usually have to Pre-approve the loan. Ironically, I could have bought a more expensive house with the additonal required monthly dues payment if I didn't live in a HOA.

The mailbox scenerio, I am NOT surprised. If the seller never saw the house, they wouldn't know about it. The renter's most likely had a copy of the key and never turned it over. Especially if the owner's weren't present at the closing. Many owner's don't even have copies of their CC&R's or by-laws, nevermind handing them over. Most states don't even require the owner turn over the copies. It's an option or courtesy.

You need to get a copy of your CC&R's. The by-laws are most likely NOT filed. They are usually maintained by the HOA itself. They are the operating rules of the HOA while the CC&R's are the actual deed restrictions. The CC&R's override any conflicts between the 2 documents.

I would find out how much you owe. You can't mess around and not pay. You can't claim "ignorance" of existance. That's not going to fly in any court of law. The court will tell you that it was your responsibility prior to signing the contract to know. That's the harsh reality of the situation. It's now your turn to get informed and the educate yourself on HOA's. Once you read up on the subject, you may actually like the concept after all. Your just having a bad experience NOW due to misunderstandings and communications. You are a member of the HOA (Homeowner's association) so know your rights.

Former HOA President

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