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JayN1 (Missouri)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Hello, and thanks in advance for any recommendations.

After many years of mismanagement by our previous HOA Board, the group that I led to oppose the Board finally was successful at removing the old Board. Now, we have a totally new Board, and we are trying to clean up the MANY messes left by the previous Board.

For the most part, the new Board is made up of individuals who were a member of the "group" that I led to educate owners about the mismanagement that was occurring under the old Board. So, we are all very like minded. However, one of the members is being VERY difficult. While she agrees with us on almost every issue, she is making things very difficult for the rest of us on the Board. She works very odd hours, and she constantly complains that it is very difficult for her to attend our meetings. But, she also doesn't like it that we discuss matters via e-mail and phone. While we would rather meet in person whenever possible (and do meet in person regularly) we are all volunteers, and we all have other lives and responsibilities. And, we have a LOT of work to do. Therefore, we have no choice but to communicate frequently via phone and e-mail.

Part of the reason why she doesn't like our use of e-mail and phone is because she feels she is being excluded from discussions. But, she isn't. She is included on EVERY e-mail that goes to all Board members. That's not to say that there are occasions where I may have a question about a financial matter, and I'll direct the question to the Treasurer and not copy (or call) every other member, because the issue isn't a critical matter where a decision must be made. She is included on every discussion where there are decisions to be made.

I think the real issue here is that this member wants to be President, but she isn't qualified, and this opinion is shared by every other Board member. She has also been scolded on several occasions because she has had discussions with homeowners about details of pending lawsuits. We have warned her repeatedly that our lawyer has told us NOT to discuss these matters outside of the Board, but she has done so anyway. Even so, we still continue to advise her of the status of these lawsuits-we do not exclude her. I doubt she will make this mistake again, because I think she knows we will remove her if she does. But, that doesn't stop her from disrupting meetings with pointed questions; demands; and so forth. So far, I have addressed this by telling her that she needs to stop demanding things of the Board, because she IS a member of the Board, and she can dig in and get the answers just as well as any of us can. That works for about a week, and then she just starts back in to questioning us, and accusing us of excluding her from discussions. My guess is that she has a personality disorder, because she is very suspicious.

What really bothers me is that the Board has nothing but the best intentions. We are all volunteers, and we are working hard trying to correct the many problems left to us by the previous Board. All of us, including her, have the same goals and desires for the HOA. We are all very much dedicated to full transparency, and to being far more open and friendly to the Owners than was the previous Board. And yet, she continually complains about the way we conduct business, and makes demands for information that we don't yet have, and so forth. I'll continue to turn the tables on her and demand that she work to solve some of these issues instead of making demands on the rest of us, but I would sure appreciate any other suggestions that you folks may have.

Thanks,

Jay

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
If no one thinks she'd make a good Prez, what role do you think she could be given responsibility on?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Jay

If she was elected to the BOD by the owners, only a vote by the owners can remove her. She is only one BOD vote. Things can go forward without her. You give her to much credit and it is like you are scared of her
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
If she continues to breach confidentiality, your Board can vote to form an "executive Committee" and exclude her. But that's in CA--do't know about MO.

Who is prez now?

Apparently in MO a majority of directors can discuss matters outside of open meetings?
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JayN1 on 02/17/2016 3:07 PM
Hello, and thanks in advance for any recommendations.

After many years of mismanagement by our previous HOA Board, the group that I led to oppose the Board finally was successful at removing the old Board. Now, we have a totally new Board, and we are trying to clean up the MANY messes left by the previous Board.

For the most part, the new Board is made up of individuals who were a member of the "group" that I led to educate owners about the mismanagement that was occurring under the old Board. So, we are all very like minded. However, one of the members is being VERY difficult. While she agrees with us on almost every issue, she is making things very difficult for the rest of us on the Board. She works very odd hours, and she constantly complains that it is very difficult for her to attend our meetings. But, she also doesn't like it that we discuss matters via e-mail and phone. While we would rather meet in person whenever possible (and do meet in person regularly) we are all volunteers, and we all have other lives and responsibilities. And, we have a LOT of work to do. Therefore, we have no choice but to communicate frequently via phone and e-mail.

Part of the reason why she doesn't like our use of e-mail and phone is because she feels she is being excluded from discussions. But, she isn't. She is included on EVERY e-mail that goes to all Board members. That's not to say that there are occasions where I may have a question about a financial matter, and I'll direct the question to the Treasurer and not copy (or call) every other member, because the issue isn't a critical matter where a decision must be made. She is included on every discussion where there are decisions to be made.

I think the real issue here is that this member wants to be President, but she isn't qualified, and this opinion is shared by every other Board member. She has also been scolded on several occasions because she has had discussions with homeowners about details of pending lawsuits. We have warned her repeatedly that our lawyer has told us NOT to discuss these matters outside of the Board, but she has done so anyway. Even so, we still continue to advise her of the status of these lawsuits-we do not exclude her. I doubt she will make this mistake again, because I think she knows we will remove her if she does. But, that doesn't stop her from disrupting meetings with pointed questions; demands; and so forth. So far, I have addressed this by telling her that she needs to stop demanding things of the Board, because she IS a member of the Board, and she can dig in and get the answers just as well as any of us can. That works for about a week, and then she just starts back in to questioning us, and accusing us of excluding her from discussions. My guess is that she has a personality disorder, because she is very suspicious.

What really bothers me is that the Board has nothing but the best intentions. We are all volunteers, and we are working hard trying to correct the many problems left to us by the previous Board. All of us, including her, have the same goals and desires for the HOA. We are all very much dedicated to full transparency, and to being far more open and friendly to the Owners than was the previous Board. And yet, she continually complains about the way we conduct business, and makes demands for information that we don't yet have, and so forth. I'll continue to turn the tables on her and demand that she work to solve some of these issues instead of making demands on the rest of us, but I would sure appreciate any other suggestions that you folks may have.

Thanks,

Jay


To be blunt, it doesn't sound like you and your board have the best intentions when you have obviously discussed this one board member to the point of all deciding she is unqualified, (your words) because god forbid she thinks differently than you and your new board of awesomeness.

Since you and your board seem to do so much thinking, maybe you should think of how to bring her in to your inner circle of such amazing people. You have labeled her and it will follow you and the rest of your amazing board more than it will follow her. That's too bad because opposition can open your eyes to the world beyond your own noses.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JayN1 on 02/17/2016 3:07 PM
I doubt she will make this mistake again, because I think she knows we will remove her if she does.

Are you sure about that?

So you're in Missouri, you have a board member who continually demands, "Show me!", and you've got a problem with that?

Seriously though, it sounds like you're doing the best you can with a director who's difficult to work with. Your plan to encourage her to be more involved is about the best thing you can do at this point.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CyrstalB on 02/18/2016 5:29 AM
To be blunt, it doesn't sound like you and your board have the best intentions when you have obviously discussed this one board member to the point of all deciding she is unqualified, (your words) because god forbid she thinks differently than you and your new board of awesomeness.

That was my initial reaction as well, but we're not there and sometimes a person really is completely and obviously "unqualified".

For example, we've got a new board member who has lived here for less than 2 years. She has attended most board meetings during that time as an owner/observer, which is good. She also attempted to vote on every item, which is not so good. Several people have tried to explain to her what a "board meeting" was all about, but it didn't sink in. Now she's on the board so she'll finally get to vote for real at the meetings. And of course, she missed the first working board meeting of the year earlier this week.

I wouldn't hesitate to describe this woman as unqualified. Nevertheless, if such a person is duly elected by the homeowners then they have every right to be there and the other directors have to figure out a way to deal with it.
JayN1 (Missouri)
Posts: 3
Posted:
I came to this forum hoping to get the perspective of people who have dealt with such a situation as this. And, I tried to describe the situation as best I could without writing every detail. And, from what I said, you decided that our intentions are dishonorable?

I don't feel the need to discuss this with someone as arrogant as you. Why don't you think a little, and try to understand someone elses posiiton before you criticize them? Thank goodness we don't have someone like YOU on the Board!
JayN1 (Missouri)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Thanks to those of you who provided suggestions and constructive comments- I do appreciate that.

The Board is doing our best to reflect the intentions and goals and wishes of our owners. We have one member who is standing in the way, and demanding that everything be done her way, and she will accept nothing else. We are a brand new Board, and have only met twice so far and she has attended both meetings. However, she complains that we should not use the phone or e=mail to discuss any Board business, because we aren't able to sit together at a table and discuss things. However, in-person meetings aren't possible all the time, because most of us work 9-5 jobs. She doesn't= she works nights, and she sleeps during the day, and her availability is extremely limited.

We are doing our best to help this complex. We are the very few who have volunteered to help. We're going to do our best to respect the wishes of the owners given the lack of interest of others to participate. We're not going to let this person slow us down or hold up progress. If the Owners decide they don't like us, they can vote us out. Better yet, all they need to do is tell us and we'll gladly step down. It's a thankless job that nobody wants, and yet we still have to deal with a cranky member who is upset because she wasn't elected GOD of the complex. Again, I came here looking for the perspective of others, not to be criticized by people who have no idea of what our situation is, and therefore choose to be insulting instead.

Thanks- we'll handle things on our own.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 02/17/2016 3:17 PM
If no one thinks she'd make a good Prez, what role do you think she could be given responsibility on?

First responder. No criticism. No reply.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I tired to offer some choices for you, Jay. Did you overlook them?

One was: Are HOA directors in MO allowed to have all of these conversations & emails about HOA biz outside of meeting? ? In some states they must only occur at meetings. Even if not against the law, imo, scheduling more meetings might help you all get some basic business done.

Who is president now?

Can your board meet on days that she's off and you others are off work? Even if on weekends?

In your mind, Jay, what three matters are most important to your HOA right now?

By the way, what size is your HOA? How many directors?

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 351
Posted:
This thread may have set several records.

What the OP could do, if they're still here, is tell us what the CC&Rs say about Board members meeting to discuss board issues outside of official board meetings. Is this allowed as per your docs, or is Ms. Difficult actually in the right?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Jay,

You don't say if you are in an HOA or a COA (condominium). Since Missouri does not currently have any HOA laws (only COA), and expecting that you are within an HOA, as long as the Board complies with the Missouri Nonprofit Corporation Act and your governing documents, then you are likely in a good place.

That said, having an open meeting requirement in my State, I would have several issues on how your Board is conducting business. I am also in a self managed board and, similar to your one individual, work odd hours. Our board is able to meet once a month for an hour or two to make the decisions a Board needs to make without a problem. Per our statute, decisions are to be made at board meetings, not via e-mail or telephone. There are exceptions, but those are rare. Missouri, doesn't have such restrictions. However, I believe that, it's a smart Board of Directors that impose similar restrictions on themselves as it lessons the possibility of any legal action. It shouldn't be hard for everyone to open a calendar and discuss when to meet next (we schedule ours 3 months out - knowing they can be changed if things come up).

On a side note: Utilizing personal e-mail can make all your e-mails open for discovery in any legal action. Just one more reason not to do business via e-mail (or at least not via personal e-mail accounts).

Hopefully, transparency and openness wasn't one of the messes you were trying to clean up (as it appears, based on your posting, that this hasn't happened).
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
An additional respectful question, Jay: We have someone on our board too who is an obstructionist. But he is one vote and he usually cannot find a majority to support his obstructions.

So, more meetings, more opportunities to vote----as you should be doing.

Or are you voting online and by phone?
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JayN1 on 02/18/2016 12:55 PM
I came to this forum hoping to get the perspective of people who have dealt with such a situation as this. And, I tried to describe the situation as best I could without writing every detail. And, from what I said, you decided that our intentions are dishonorable?

I don't feel the need to discuss this with someone as arrogant as you. Why don't you think a little, and try to understand someone elses posiiton before you criticize them? Thank goodness we don't have someone like YOU on the Board!

Jay: If this is how you feel with this exchange and with a complete stranger, imagine how this one board member must feel now that you have labeled her in the way that you have.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
The Board is doing our best to reflect the intentions and goals and wishes of our owners.


WRONG WRONG WRONG

The "Board's" only task is to operate the corporation as per the bylaws and covenants.

Y'all are NOT representatives, merely executives.

? Am I splitting hairs ?

possibly

? Am I in error ?

nope

? A rogue director ?

so what, merely outvote them
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 02/21/2016 3:37 PM
WRONG WRONG WRONG

Violated the posting rules?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
???

what posting rule have I violated?
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 02/21/2016 7:25 PM
???

what posting rule have I violated?


Oops. Different thread. Your last post on "information request" thread - also started with "wrong" ???

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

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