HOA force me to paint the exterior of the house

Tim.

Thanks for the reply. You got an interesting point. However, painting the house is big dollar spending. I expect the HOA need to show proof or do professional assessment to determine if I violate the criteria, right? This shouldnt be the "i think therefore i can" force you to do IMHO. It is not like im expensive violation like i need to edge my lawn, where i just do it without questioning.

This is my first time posted here. I just came across this forum today.

The house was painted 10 years ago along with nearly other 300 houses. Yes, i know about that house needs to be repaint after 5 years or so but it depends on other factors too. Regardless, i suggested that HOA should do a community repaint if they based on the year of build (these r new build homes 10 yrs ago), to be fair. They ignored my suggestion.

I feel that i have been targeted because my house do look good comparing to many other houses. That is why i want them to show me prove.

Tim

I dont know much about about paint, but, i see online saying it varies so much. 5-10 years, but that is typical. Some last more. Regardless, the covenant doesnt say house needs to repaint every (let's say) 5 yrs. Instead, it gives a percentage of issues. So, i expect to go by the % criteria.

I cant find where in the covenant gives HOA the power to give violation based on assumption. If violation is about trimming branches or edging the lawn, homeowner wouldnt make it a big deal because those are obvious to determine. But a certain % of color fading? How can one tell, let alone, HOA cant access the property for a closer look? I assumed only paint specialist can do this assessment, right?

I am telling you, my house do look great comparing to many houses. I tried to reason with them too. That is why i dont understand why HOA make a big deal. I only can think of trying to show power or something. If it looks bad comparing to many other houses, then i will comply already, w/o asking for proof. But, my do look good.

The wording you are looking for will be in your CCR's under the "Maintenance By Owner" article that gives the Architectural Review Committee Criteria the power to make the "assumptions" that you are speaking of. You may find another article in your CCR's that spells out what the criteria is for the ARC committee and within it there will be further wording to the effect of they are the interpreters of the Declaration with respect to all things aesthetics. These articles give them the right to "assume" that your house is in need of painting, according to them.

Tim,

I understand your points. Just want to discuss. I emailed their lawyer and my friend's lawyer to see what they have to say.

I dont want to spend $3000 or so to paint just the HOA bullied me. When i say bullied, i mean they gave me violation w/o proof. If they prove it, then i will comply. Simple. I dont know why they dont explain or tell me the specific regulation where they have to power to tell homeowner s to do based on "assumption" nor give me proof of violation.

For a person who says he cannot afford to go to court, you are doing everything to ensure that you end up there.

NpS,

What you said makes sense. How can i tell if they looked and sent violation letters to other houses? Again, the issue i am having is that mine looks good comparing to many. HOA did inspect it while the external surface was wet, hence dark spots due to the wall was drying. Cant expect the wall to be dried instantly, right? I mentioned it to HOA, but HOA expected it to be uniformed at any condition they inspect. So, they ignored my justification. This raised my concern about their judgement. I dont know how many have repainted and/ received notices; that is why I requested to get that info from them so I can compare and understand more. They said it is confidential info which they wont provide. Per statues, owner can request offical record excluding personal like SSN, credit card...etc. They dont even provide that info or at a min, tell me how many properties have received notices, how many repainted ..etc. So i can have better understanding. Say, if 50% have repainted, then i might join them. If, only a small percent repainted or received notices, i should be concerned or curious. If they dont do wrong or being fair, why not provide me at least the min info that i requested. What is there to hide, Right?

:-) They said i violated the CR&R but didnt tell me the specific violation. Let's say that they have the power not needing to prove anything, then, show me that rule. I couldnt say anything by then, right?

I am a reasonable person. Show me reasonal judgement and/or the rule. Sometime we domt like rules that work against you, but, you have to accept them. If there is such rule that HOA can force homeowners to do anything w/o proof, then i comply or beg for forgiveness.

The question is, where is that rule?

If you don’t want to go to court, have you considered alternative dispute resolution? An independent arbitrator or mediator can listen to both sides and make a decision. The mediator usually tries to look for common ground between the two, while an arbitrator will make a decision – both sides usually have to agree in advance to comply with the decision.

You might want to check with your local bar association to see if anyone is a certified arbitrator or mediator, see how much they might charge and then ask if the association would be willing to split the costs – if it goes to an arbitrator, the loser usually has to reimburse the winner.

Whether you go to court or ADR, you’ll still have to make your case, and I agree with Tim that you’ll need to get an expert to look at your house and assist you, because based on what you’ve said so far, it doesn’t sound like you have a lot to work with.

You say you think you’re being targeted because your house looks good compared to others – that’s your opinion, but how do you KNOW for certain? Did you ask a few strangers driving by what they think? Have you looked at the other 299 homes? What criteria did YOU use to conclude your house looks better? If your CCRs say the house should be painted every 5 years, what did you do five years ago? If you say repainting depends on other factors, which ones are you using to conclude your house doesn’t need painting? See how prickly this can get?

I explained how our board does things. You said it seemed reasonable.

Nowhere did I say that we provide "proof" of anything. All I said is that we interpret our docs and try to apply them consistently.

The question you raise here is who has the authority to decide? If you read your docs, you will see that the authority rests with your board. If you think they are bullying you, you can replace them or take them to court. If you try to replace them, you will need enough homeowners who think the same way you do. If you take them to court, the judge won't be looking at whether your request is reasonable - the judge will look at whether the board is being unreasonable. Your board gets the presumption of reasonableness - not you.

So when you say that you will comply if they provide "proof", what you are really saying is that you want the authority to decide what's "reasonable" and what's sufficient "proof." Nonsense. If you get enough homeowners to agree with you, you can achieve the authority you want. But til then, the board gets to decide.

SheliaH

Yes. It's my opinion, likewise, with HOA. They use their own opinion too. I have no problem with different opinion. What I can't accept or hard for me to accept is unreasonable opinion. They inspected the house while the surface was wet and they couldn't tell it. I proved them by show them a few pictures at different times where at a certain time, the spots showed up and at a certain time, the spots didn't. They ignored it and told me the color has to be uniform at any condition they decide to inspect. Does that sound reasonable to you? Why not inspect like 30 min or 1 hour when the sun comes up after raining. Would you expect the color to be uniform when some areas are still wet?

Yes. I looked at the other houses. I didn't looked at 100%, but at least 90% because I jog around the neighboorhood a few times a week. On weekends, i jog in the morning. On weekdays, i jog in the afternoon, so i do see the color at different time of the days. I see different shades..etc. I came to the conclusion that mine looks in good shape, at least top 50%. Mine doesn't even have mildew like a lot of other houses.

Should is not the same as shall. If there is regulation stating that houses shall be painted at every 5 years. I can't argue but to comply. I am not happy to comply, but, i wouldn't fight because rule is rule.

The biggest way that my state's statutes are different than yours is that your state requires open meetings and mine doesn't. An unhappy homeowner here doesn't get to sit in as an observer to see what's actually going on at a board meeting. In FL, homeowners must be given that opportunity. Since you didn't respond to my prior comments about open meetings, I will "reasonably" conclude that you aren't interested in taking advantage of a right you wouldn't have in my state.

I've had my share of fights with prior boards. In my mind, I was always right. And even today, no one can convince me that I was wrong. So what? They had the authority and they made the decisions. When I decided to actually do something other than complain about it, I ran for the board and got elected. A few years later, all the old board members are gone except for one. The board that I fought with doesn't exist anymore.

You argue that the Prez doesn't get violation notices when his yard is in worse condition than his next door neighbor. According to you, the only way to fix this is to make all violation notices public. If you were one out of five board members, you could get that rule approved if you convinced two other board members to agree with you and your HOA lawyer didn't object. If you weren't on the board, you could speak up at an open meeting and recommend that the board adopt such a rule. But instead of working the process that's available to you, you claim that you know best how they should do things differently. On what authority - That the statute was changed in 2006 because of prior clarity problems in FL. Give me a break.

I don't question that you think the rules aren't clear enough. And I don't question that the FL statute demands more clarity than what existed prior to 2006. But who made you the authority on what is and what isn't clear enough to satisfy the statute? You're not interested in taking the issue to court - so you get to decide? It doesn't work that way. It's not your call. And saying that it should be "good for homeowners" doesn't add any clarity at all - it's about as vague a statement that you can make.

I can understand that you don't want to spend $3k right now. I can understand that you don't like getting your appeals turned down. I've been there myself. The words I used were worse than "tyranny" when my board didn't do what I wanted. But they had the authority and I didn't. And I had the choice to step up or sit down. So do you.

Florida statutes say no such thing.

They do say no policy or restrictions may be enforced that interfere with an owner's rights and privileges as spelled out in the CCRs, but there's nothing that requires the CCRs or other published guidelines to be clear and easy to understand.

It's common knowledge that homes need to be repainted every 7 to 10 years, especially in Florida. Yours hasn't been painted in 10. I think you'll have a hard time finding a judge that agrees with your stance that the board is acting unreasonably.

The board is not responsible for teaching you how to read, nor for educating you on how to read your CCR's and related documents. This is pure nonsense. It is clear that you didn't bother to locate them yourself let alone read them. Have you looked at your own CCR's to locate the answer?

They have all the power and you do not. They are very happy to see you in court because they do know what sections give them the power and conversely, they know that you do not. It is very possible that they look forward to a court appearance, so they can shove those sections down your throat with as many witnesses as possible. This is an "example" that I would want to educate the entire HOA on, that is how ridiculous this line of defense is.

Good luck and I hope to hear how the court case goes!

Do you as a member of the Association have a right to a hearing before the Board of Directors? If so have you past the number of days you have to request the hearing?

I lived in one community where the Association actually had to approve the color you used and yes they did tell us we had to paint and had the authority to do so.

You must read your governing documents before arguing your side of any violation notification. The governing documents will spell out everything for you. Most of the time, to my knowledge, the Association is not out of bounds.