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MaryC14 (North Carolina)
Posts: 18
Posted:
Our association owns the roads within the community. The common property includes a strip of land about 20 feet on either side of the roads.

At present, we have no rules to say what use property owners can make of this land, and some people are treating the roadsides as their private property. We needs a document to say, “This land is our (communal) land; this land is not your (private) land (e.g. a place to put your satellite dishes and objects for sale).”

I would appreciate seeing what document other communities use, as a guideline for developing a set of rules.

I have a list of things we want to put into the rules: for instance, you can park on the shoulders for a social visit or a meeting, but you can't park there overnight. Primarily I'm looking for a statement that explains why "This land ain't your (personal) land." And some organizational principles for the rules.

Thanks.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Mary,

The first thing you should do is to verify that your association has a deed to all the real estate you describe. The reason I suggest that is my own experience and observation is that developers seldom set aside deeded property for roadways. Among other reasons, they do not want to pay taxes on that land, they do not want to reduce the acreage they are selling, and they do not want to pay for surveying and recording the deed(s) and/or plats. Far more common where there is little likelihood that a public agency will accept ownership of the roads is to dedicate an easement for a road on each side of a property line.

I own a 40-acre parcel in a rural area. The developer dedicated a 30-foot wide easement for roads on all my property lines. I pay taxes on 40 acres but probably have exclusive use of only about 38 acres. (When the 30-foot easement on my property is combined with my neighbors' easements, we have a 60-foot wide right-of-way.) All of my neighbors have a similar situation yet if you asked them, "Who owns the roads?" most would reply that the association owns them. In truth, the association does not own even a single blade of grass. No property was ever deeded to the association.

My suggestion is that before you do anything else that you obtain copies of the deed(s) for your roads; do not take someone else's word for it that the property in question is owned by your association. Verify it with your own eyes.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Not sure why the distinction between private and common land. Doesn't your HOA have the authority to restrict activity on both?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
MaryC14 (North Carolina)
Posts: 18
Posted:
Thanks for the caution.

The subdivision was developed in sections, and the wording in the deeds differs a bit between the different documents. The various deeds conveys "fee simple interest" or “all right, title and interest” to the roadsides. These deeds apply to our main road (the only paved road), and this is the road I'm concerned about. A few gravel side roads are owned by landowners, not the association.

This does raise a question, though. As far as I know, the association does not pay any property taxes.
MaryC14 (North Carolina)
Posts: 18
Posted:
This is a community mostly zoned agricultural. There are a few restrictions on use of private land, but these general restrictions aren't useful for regulating use of roadsides. For example, landowners can cut timber on their land up to a limit of no more than 20% of trees with a diameter of over 8 inches, and they can't clearcut in a 50-foot buffer zone around the lot lines. Actually, there was an istance where a landowner started to clearcut his buffer zone, and the board used the covenant provisions to stop that. But there are no restrictions on placement of satellite dishes, for example. (The community was established before there were such things.)

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Mary,

Given the nature of your community, it is far more likely that the developer established the roads by means of easements rather than by deeding a right-of-way to the association. If the roads are on easements then you may have a problem trying to enforce any rules as the developer, and not the association, was the grantor of the easements. In theory, however, if the easements were dedicated for ingress and egress or similar terms, any person in whose favor the easement was dedicated may remove anything from the easement that is not consistent with that use.

The best advice that I can give is that before you start a war with the neighbors is to obtain the advice of an attorney who practices real estate law to see what you can and cannot do. This is not a normal HOA situation so I would not seek an attorney who practices HOA law.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryC14 on 02/07/2016 3:40 PM
This does raise a question, though. As far as I know, the association does not pay any property taxes.

May or may not be significant. For example, in PA, our statute forbids property tax on hoa land. 100% of value is assessed to individual unit owners.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
MaryC14 (North Carolina)
Posts: 18
Posted:
LarryB,

My understanding is that the Association fully owns a 60-foot strip
of land upon which the main road is constructed. The road itself
only takes up about 15 feet of this strip.

There is a deed recorded in the county records that says:

"THIS DEED, made this the 14 day of October, 1993, by and
between ... A LIMITED PARTNERSHIP, actinq by its General
Partner, ... A North Carolina Corporation, party of the
first part; and ... LANDOWNERS ASSOCIATION, A North
Carolina Non-profit Corporation, party of the second part:

WITNESSETH

THAT WHEREAS, party of the first part is the owner of
certain roads and easements and rights reserved in its
development of . . . Subdivision; and
WHEREAS, party of the first part desires to convey all of
its remaining interest in such property to party of the second
part to be held and managed by party of the second part for the
benefit of the members of ... Landowners Association;
NOW THEREFORE, the party of the first part, ... does by these
presents give, grant, bargain, sell and convey unto party of the
second part, its successors and assigns, all of its right,
title and interest in and to the real estate, easements,
reservations and rights hereinafter described ... as follows:
...

C. Fee simple interest in the 60' private road;... all as
shown on plat....

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Mary,

The terminology is a bit archaic but it seems to be a legitimate deed for the road. Ignore my previous advice.
MaryC14 (North Carolina)
Posts: 18
Posted:
LarryB,

Our community is unique in various ways, and our governing documents were written before anyone had much experience with community associations. Various of these documents could use a good editing, but that's another story.

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