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TjD1 (Colorado)
Posts: 4
Posted:
My parents bought a home that was the only one not included in the HOA. It was built 60 years ago. Twenty years later the owner developed the surrounding neighborhood excluding his own home from the HOA. Subsequent owners thought it was part of the HOA and paid the annual fees. Now that my parents own the property and are remodeling, the HOA board wants them to subject the house to the HOA covenants by filing a legal document to include it. (They are not doing anything out of the ordinary and included the HOA in their design reviews just to be a good neighbor, to which the HOA gave a verbal approval AFTER 5 MONTHS) There is no reason why my parents should include their property in the HOA - no benefit other than the Christmas decor at the entrance and incurring the wrath of opinions from the ACC in the future. However, they still want to give their fair share to the HOA and be a good neighbor. They would like to make a "donation" of the $600 rather than pay the HOA bill for the $600 fee. Is that plausible? They figure by paying the fee it would set a precedent that they agreed to be in the HOA. Is there another way to approach this?
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
It is not an uncommon situation for a person with lots of land to develop it and impose deed restrictions upon all lots except his own.

If I was in your parents' situation, I would not agree to pay the HOA anything unless they agree to accept the payment as a donation and not a payment of an assessment. If the HOA agreed to that, I would go one more step and record the receipt for the donation so that the next owner does not go through this same thing. I would be concerned that payment might imply membership. From your description it would appear that your parents have no obligation to pay the HOA anything or to make themselves subject to the deed restrictions.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
What Larry said.
Also, the first thing I would do is check at the recorders office and make sure that your parent's house is excluded from the HOA Plat. I would prepare a letter to the HOA stating that the house is not part of the HOA, that the developer built the house 20 years before the HOA was begun, and that although nothing is owed to the HOA, you are making a strictly voluntary $600 donation. Have the letter notarized and recorded.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
TjD1 (Colorado)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thank you Larry & NpS. Great suggestions.
I actually went to the county to make sure there had been no subsequent filings that obligated the property to the HOA. Even their title company checked and no one ever filed a supplementary document to include the property in the HOA, as is required by the CC&Rs. Their neighbor on the adjacent property grew up in the house as a kid and is now the 75 year old head of the ACC and his wife is the HOA board president. Last summer they tried to guilt my parents into joining the HOA saying "What will the neighbors think?" Today they suggested the board may file a lawsuit since "...a previous owner of the property said 18 years ago that they would file a supplementary document with the county but never did, but it should still be included." Ridiculous!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Note,

The donation would not be tax deductible.
However, it would count as taxable income to the Association.

Personally, I'd tell them tough luck and not pay anything.

However, you should verify that there are no deed restrictions on the property (which I suspect you have already done) prior to saying anything. Additionally, as others have advised, a 10 min conversation with an attorney on the issue couldn't hurt.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Looks like our posts crossed.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
No good deed goes unpunished. If it was me, I wouldn't even entertain a discussion of the subject with the HOA. Give them a donation when they're asking me to surrender rights I'm not required by law to give up? Hah. Pull my finger.
TjD1 (Colorado)
Posts: 4
Posted:
GenoS - I truly understand that sentiment! The neighborhood is small, very nice & upscale, situated on one big circle, and my parents do want to be good neighbors because they do like many of the neighbors - maybe not so much the adjacent ones. It's a sticky situation because they want to do the right thing. They just don't want to be subject to the ACC as they gave them such a hard time when all they were trying to do was be a "good neighbor" by trying to follow rules that they didn't even have to follow. The neighbor ACC head tried to intimidate them into thinking they WERE subject to the community guidelines. Some people seem to really like power I guess. ;-))
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TjD1 on 02/01/2016 8:12 PM
GenoS -
The neighbor ACC head tried to intimidate them into thinking they WERE subject to the community guidelines. Some people seem to really like power I guess. ;-))

Actually, depending on how well the issue is known, it wouldn't be unrealistic for a committee member or a Board member to think that all homes within the subdivision were subject to the CC&Rs and other Association governing docs. It also wouldn't be unrealistic for that same individual to take the word of the homeowner that they were not subject to the governing docs until that individual did some checking on their own (if they even bother to take the time to check).

So, I wouldn't call it a power trip.
I would simply call it being uninformed.
TjD1 (Colorado)
Posts: 4
Posted:
My parents have given everyone the benefit of the doubt. However, given that the ACC head (adjacent neighbor) lived in the house my parent's bought until he built the house next door AND was named in the governing CC&Rs and subsequent documents pertaining to both properties, I do not think he was uninformed. Other HOA members may be, but I don't believe the HOA president and her ACC head husband can make that claim.
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Your parents seem like the bigger people... but it sounds like if the board is considering taking legal action against your parents who have zero obligation (and they know that but insist a previous owner made a pinky promise which makes your parents liable to the HOA), your parents would be better off not even donating. If they will push a twenty year old discussion and may sue than they will certainly go after your parents for any other angle that opens up.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Your parents may give a donation to HOA if they see fit and it's the HOA's problem to account for it.

Your parents are NOT HOA members. If verified, then they may do what they like with the property.

Pretty simple no matter the HOA bluster.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KevinK7 on 02/02/2016 6:46 AM
Your parents seem like the bigger people... but it sounds like if the board is considering taking legal action against your parents who have zero obligation (and they know that but insist a previous owner made a pinky promise which makes your parents liable to the HOA), your parents would be better off not even donating. If they will push a twenty year old discussion and may sue than they will certainly go after your parents for any other angle that opens up.


Actually, I think your parents are cool. Acknowledging that there is a cost of upkeep and desiring to maintain goodwill with neighbors. Also, willing to stay out of HOA politics because they won't have a vote - Except for their ability to stop making donations.

The other thing I like about the donations is this - There will be other homeowners who will get angry with the board for wasting HOA money to sue people who are paying.

Re the "pinky promise" - no effect if it isn't documented and recorded. You can validate this by reading your state's recording statutes.

Finally - to keep your parents safe from the nasties - only put one flamingo in the front yard and park all the rusted out cars out back.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
CurbnumbersF
Posts: 1
Posted:
The elephant in the room for me is what the $600 is spent on being way too much for just Christmas decor?! I would ask the HOA specifically and when deciding if to join take that into account as well as the effect on house value when selling the house (as a $600/yr obligation is a big negative when taken into account by prospective buyers). I pay about the same annual fee and receive membership to huge neighborhood fitness center including gym with all kinds of weights and TV treadmills, heated lap pool & family pool, and clay tennis courts.
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Plus don't think the promise will hold up in court. My neighborhood argued intent of owners from 30 years ago to a judge. When asked where it was written the HOA'S lawyer could only say what he believed to be the facts. That argument didn't work.
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Any monetary "donation" to the HOA could potentially put your parents at risk for future problems the HOA may have. It can be seen as acknowledgment of the HOA existing etc. It's too big of a risk in this day and age.

There are many other ways for them to show good will to the HOA, and it is not to give them any form of payment.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CyrstalB on 02/03/2016 5:25 AM
Any monetary "donation" to the HOA could potentially put your parents at risk for future problems the HOA may have. It can be seen as acknowledgment of the HOA existing etc. It's too big of a risk in this day and age.

There are many other ways for them to show good will to the HOA, and it is not to give them any form of payment.

If I give you a series of gifts Crystal, I have no obligation to continue giving you such gifts - especially if I have recorded a public document stating that I have no such obligation.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 02/03/2016 5:29 AM
Posted By CyrstalB on 02/03/2016 5:25 AM
Any monetary "donation" to the HOA could potentially put your parents at risk for future problems the HOA may have. It can be seen as acknowledgment of the HOA existing etc. It's too big of a risk in this day and age.

There are many other ways for them to show good will to the HOA, and it is not to give them any form of payment.

If I give you a series of gifts Crystal, I have no obligation to continue giving you such gifts - especially if I have recorded a public document stating that I have no such obligation.

Yes, NPS, in a normal world you and I both know that is correct. BUT in these United States of America, there are plenty of attorneys who will take that point and drag it through the court system for their own benefit. It has nothing to do with what you and I know is right and wrong. So I suggest to take that risk away completely and come up with other ways of showing goodwill and leave the actual money out of it.

And curious what would the recorded public document be that states you don't have an obligation? Would it be something that is recorded along with the gift or are you referring to there being no such recorded document that states they do belong to the HOA?
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CyrstalB on 02/03/2016 5:44 AM

And curious what would the recorded public document be that states you don't have an obligation? Would it be something that is recorded along with the gift or are you referring to there being no such recorded document that states they do belong to the HOA?

See my first post to this thread.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
I would not cut a check to the HOA (paper trail) I doubt if the HOA wants a check, either.

I would offer to pay for something, like the decorations or the landscape bill, up to $600 and write the check directly to the vendor.

You could also throw a catered party for the HOA members. As someone said, there are lots of ways to show your commitment to the community.

ValK2 (Tennessee)
Posts: 65
Posted:
In my community we have a few property owners who make a payment, but do not belong to the HOA. Lord knows why, but they feel more comfortable that way. I guess they figure it excludes them from liability should the HOA be sued or an assessment imposed.

Regardless, the CCR's apply to all homes in the community, and just like the OP, all projects, etc. must be in compliance with the covenants.

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