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EdY (Georgia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I live in a subdivision in Georgia with a small lake surrounded by homes. My property borders on this lake. The subdivision has no covenants. Until recently, the half of the lake in front of my property was not owned by the subdivision; the builder still owned that half of the lake. The other half is divided among the homes on the other half of the lake. Recently, the HOA took over the deed for the remaining half of the lake. I have had a dock and walkway from my property to the dock for close to 20 years. Now that the subdivision owns the property, I'm being told that my dock must be removed, as it's on HOA property. I thought that, since I've been paying HOA dues since I moved here 30 years ago, that I would be considered part owner of the lake, now that the HOA owns it. The lake is tiny (not really navigable to go anywhere), but we stocked it may years ago, and we like to use our rowboat to go fishing. By the way, I've also been maintaining the dam over the years, and my wife and I continually clear the silt and trash that accumulates on our end of the lake. We're on the shallow end, and the wind blows in our direction over the lake. I would think that I have riparian rights because my property borders the lake. Opinions? Thanks.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 351
Posted:
Either remove it, or bluster that you have established a case of adverse procession and the property is in fact yours.

If you go for the latter, you may very well win. They may also call your bluff, and you'll have to get an attorney.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 351
Posted:
You could probably also argue that you have a well established prescriptive easement.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Mark makes two good suggestions for solving the problem.

Adverse possession usually requires that you openly make use of the property as if it were your own. Building a dock on that land would definitely qualify as overt occupation. The prescriptive easement argument also holds water as you somehow had to get from your home to your dock.

In either case, you will not solve this without the help of a real estate attorney.

BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By EdY on 01/29/2016 4:47 PM
I live in a subdivision in Georgia with a small lake surrounded by homes. My property borders on this lake. The subdivision has no covenants. Until recently, the half of the lake in front of my property was not owned by the subdivision; the builder still owned that half of the lake. The other half is divided among the homes on the other half of the lake. Recently, the HOA took over the deed for the remaining half of the lake. I have had a dock and walkway from my property to the dock for close to 20 years. Now that the subdivision owns the property, I'm being told that my dock must be removed, as it's on HOA property. I thought that, since I've been paying HOA dues since I moved here 30 years ago, that I would be considered part owner of the lake, now that the HOA owns it. The lake is tiny (not really navigable to go anywhere), but we stocked it may years ago, and we like to use our rowboat to go fishing. By the way, I've also been maintaining the dam over the years, and my wife and I continually clear the silt and trash that accumulates on our end of the lake. We're on the shallow end, and the wind blows in our direction over the lake. I would think that I have riparian rights because my property borders the lake. Opinions? Thanks.

EdY (Georgia): At this forum & others, Comment-inviters frequently use terms or introduce justifications that respectfully are tough for anyone to sort out without the documents to verify.

If the lake & lakeside you are describing is legally a common element ( or merely something like a bare co-ownership tenancy in common) you or anyone has a hurdle.

That hurdle includes having to prove that you your property has acquired by prescription / adverse possession / "squatting"/ whatever, some sort of unique right no longer shared with others.

Eg my kids have played on the common element swings or swim in common pool so much that now I claim my property uniquely has acquired some sort of unique, title specific property easement etc "Their usage gave me squatters' rights of some sort."

You see the immediate upfront issue eg of such a claim . . .

Easement claimants have to prove a lot state by state. Respectfully if your private lot title is subject to have CCRs/restrictive covenants/condo Declaration etc those will speak heavily to any sort of claim you now try to make. You might plead for grand-fathering if the dock & access is on a common element whose ownership you share with others.

The above advice to you to get competent legal advice is a good one. The advisor will insist on seeing the documents just for starters.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
EdY (Georgia)An easement/ arms length claim etc is not automatically futile.

For example, my previous HOA was a shareholder-owned corporation privately owning a waterfront that could in theory have been subjected to easement / squatters rights in theory claimable by ANYONE at all.

BUT to illustrate :

1-As soon as the waterfront owning HOA title next passed ( during electronic conversion of the entire land registry system ) from mere document registry to full Torrens type Land Title, then un-perfected claims ( eg squatting easement ) would have been wiped out unless litigated.

2- Had I claimed such beforehand, I would have faced a HUGE hurdle explaining that my rights were other than a mere shareholder, NOT arms-length nor notoriously open to the universe nor adverse nor explainable as some sort of unique private property right claim.

Thus you would be best served to get competent legal advice as others recommended above. The Allmans are/were great.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Option: Go to HOA board and explain that you will continue to maintain the dam and clear silt and trash if they allow you to keep the dock. They may not be aware of the services you provide and the expense they avoid if you don't bring it to their attention. Also, find out what their actual objection is - Condition? Fear that others will do the same? Insurance liability? Something else?

Issue: When the dock went up could make a difference. Was it there when you bought? Was it there when the developer was still in control?

Question: Whose names are on the deed as grantor and grantee?

Comments: Riparian rights usually have to do with passage or use of water. Nothing in your post gives me the impression that passage is needed or that dock is necessary. Like others have said, can't claim adverse possession if you acknowledged someone else's ownership (either developer or HOA). If lake is a common element, then you have a right to use - Doesn't mean that you have a right to your own private structure on common property.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
EdY (Georgia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thanks to all for your helpful responses. Yes, Riparian law includes use of water. It also includes the right of owners of lakefront property to build a dock and a walkway from the property in order to get access to and make use of the lake.
EdY (Georgia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Answers to your questions (this is long, so ignore unless you're really interested):

I moved here 30 years ago. My survey shows I have lakefront property. Due to drought, the water level was low, and there was a lot of exposed sediment in front of my property. About 28 years ago, I built a small bridge over the narrow waterway to the sediment island to get access to the lake. I painted it a light blue gray (more about this later). About 20 years ago, we build a dock on the far side of the bridge. The dock sits on top of the sediment on the other side of the waterway. Later I added a wooded walkway from my fence to the bridge. I did state originally that the subdivision has no covenants. The are voluntary homeowner dues that I have been paying since we moved in. The lakefront area behind my house is not accessible by anyone unless they gain access by walking across my or a neighbor property or come across the lake, so no one else really uses the space. I've always considered it my space. All the lakefront owners were under the understanding that we owned the lake rights and had full access. This is what we were told over the years when we asked about the lake.

The objection to my dock - my next door neighbor is a lawyer and now president of the HOA. He move into the subdivision around 1993. My neighbor is very aware of the work my wife and I do to maintain the lake. He has seen us working in the muck. Also, he helped me repaired the dam 2 or 3 times over the years, and the board has since agreed that it is the HOA's responsibility. We used to be good friends. I'm sad about this.

I had recently done some maintenance to the dock and walkway, including pressure washing and repainting everything. He said his wife didn't like the color and asked that I repaint it. I asked other neighbors around the lake, and they had no problem with the color - a bluish gray. He then claimed that the dock impedes the natural flow of the runoff from the ditch between our properties.

A year ago, he had the county send an Erosion Control specialist out to inspect the placement of my dock, complaining that it's in the way of the natural flow of the stream (actually a runoff ditch). He stated in the HOA minutes that the inspector found a violation and that I was ordered to remove the dock. He also stated that the HOA owned the property under my dock. I contacted the County Erosion Control manager who came out with his original inspector. He said there was no problem with my dock and that if there had been a problem, we would have been cited the same day. My wife is pretty sharp and did a lot of research on state and county ordinances about lakes and runoff ditches. She also located surveys of the subdivision and properties around the lake. That's when I discovered that the subdivision did not have title to the half of the lake my property borders. The original builder neglected to turn over the deed to the subdivision. The HOA president at the time and the board members agreed to drop the matter.

Just this week, the HOA got the builder's heirs to turn over the deed to the subdivision, and my neighbor decided to reopen the complaint. A lawyer called us yesterday to tell us he is representing the HOA, and we have 60 days to remove the dock, bridge, and walkway. I then called the HOA board treasurer to ask what he knows about the complaint. He had no knowledge of it and said that he would have to approve hiring and paying a lawyer. I plan to discuss the matter with the other board members to find out what they know.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Ask an attorney about "adverse possession". It looks like it takes 20 years in Georgia and you've had it for more than that.
EdY (Georgia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I'm looking into adverse possession and also prescriptive easement. I'm not sure I can use either. The HOA recently acquired the deed. What is in my favor is that they thought they owned the property when they first complained last year.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
That's why you should ask an attorney ASAP. The heirs transferring the title to someone else is an encroachment on your property rights. Depending on a qualified legal opinion, of course. They might even offer something in return for you dropping your claim. Only a lawyer can advise you whether or not you've got a case.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By EdY on 01/30/2016 3:09 PM
Just this week, the HOA got the builder's heirs to turn over the deed to the subdivision, and my neighbor decided to reopen the complaint. A lawyer called us yesterday to tell us he is representing the HOA, and we have 60 days to remove the dock, bridge, and walkway. I then called the HOA board treasurer to ask what he knows about the complaint. He had no knowledge of it and said that he would have to approve hiring and paying a lawyer. I plan to discuss the matter with the other board members to find out what they know.


I have never heard of either a lawyer or an HOA serving notice by telephone. It sounds suspiciously like your lawyer-neighbor is up to no good.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Worth reading:

http://www.mlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2012/10/post_102.html

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 01/30/2016 4:58 PM

I have never heard of either a lawyer or an HOA serving notice by telephone. It sounds suspiciously like your lawyer-neighbor is up to no good.

Yep, all initial contact I've seen from attorneys are written and sent certified or by messenger.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
EdY Ga :

NpS' good digging leads to 2015 Michigan Ct of Appeals Kranz v Terrill Michigan Aug 6/15 Ct of Appeals http://law.justia.com/cases/michigan/court-of-appeals-unpublished/2015/319287.html

You can see that the 'factuals' may vary widely, resulting in outcomes that can be difficult to predict ie eccentric or idiosyncratic.

The exact status of the un-transferred part of the lake before you say HOA acquired title would be an interesting issue for your lawyer.

If the developer's position was like a trustee pending performance of a duty to the HOA, then expect to hear your dock to be claimed as merely the leading edge of rights to be NOT exclusively your's but shared by you with all other owners.

Your hurdle may be forcing whatever your rights that would eventually be perfected as just one of whatever the number of destination properties in the HOA.

All the more reason to consult a lawyer about Georgia Code TITLE 44 - PROPERTY CHAPTER 5 - ACQUISITION AND LOSS OF PROPERTY ARTICLE 7 - PRESCRIPTION ยง 44-5-161 and ยง 44-5-164 http://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-44/chapter-5/article-7/44-5-161
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Ed IMHO GET AN ATTORNEY this is not the time for self help. Reasonable discourse can only occur between reasonable parties and it sounds like this attorney's wife rules the roost and there is no telling the depth he might sink to to get peace at home.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Glen makes a good point. I have actually heard a board member here say a few months ago, "I'm really not in favor of X but if I don't vote for it my wife will kill me."

(figure of speech there, nobody was actually threatened by anyone)
EdY (Georgia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Yes, we are consulting an attorney on Monday. Been doing some research on lawyers with experience with these kinds of matters. Thanks again for all your feedback and advice.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Between jurisdictions there can be wide variations in not only how easement claims can be perfected, but also how durable they may be.

( Potential ) claimants - where the claims are NOT yet perfected & registered and are short of full ownership acquired by enough unambiguous squatting as if an owner - should particularly watch out for the impact of MRTA-type provisions.

In some jurisdictions it may be necessary to periodically register a document or easement- reviving FORM just to beat such MRTA impact killing a registered usage right uncited for a duration of years.

My own jurisdiction is witnessing a bizarre struggle between the government & the courts in applying a 40 year MRTA effect onto easements of 'unpurchased' usages less than total perfected ownership. ie the battle is over claims NOT perfected for total ownership, but instead for mere usage.

Those mere usages may have been fully cited in past deeds but fail to reappear within 40 years onto otherwise benefitting /burdened registry entries ( eg as "subject to ..." / "together with ..." ).

The government keeps trying to sweep them away from cluttering its electronic Torrens type land titles environment. Otherwise-burdened purchasers "in good faith for full value", under that disturbing scenario, might be able to sweep the burdens away where uncited for 40 years. Some have succeeded.

So even 'deeded' usage enjoyers might be smart to check whatever their jurisdiction's laws eventually wiping such out by MRTA effects.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
If I'm not mistake Bob, Canada's Torrens system provides a government-sponsored guarantee of title. US states (except MA and HI) rely exclusively on private title insurance. Govt bears no responsibility.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
Hasn't the statute of limitations passed? If so, the HOA may (or may not) be able to remove the dock, but they can't force you to remove the dock or make you pay for it. And you probably don't have to grant them access to your property so they can remove the dock.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 01/31/2016 9:20 AM
If I'm not mistake Bob, Canada's Torrens system provides a government-sponsored guarantee of title. US states (except MA and HI) rely exclusively on private title insurance. Govt bears no responsibility.

NpS - right on the button. ( Ontarions actually buy lots of title insurance here because the jurisdiction's "guarantee" (one of 3 principles along with 'mirroring' & 'compensation') tends to put victims through a sort of bureaucratic Hell after blissfully allowing title fraud by total strangers.)

The vulnerable easement debate here (the Ramsay case ) :
Govt : "If the easement is a title-registered promise instead of a true interest in land, then - if uncited for 40 years nor revived in time by Form (32) - it can be ignored by subsequent good faith buyers for full value. Anyway we passed the law." ( think : the Florida MRTA wars).

But Courts : "We don't like allowing a genuine interest in land to be killed just because of a 40 year title searching limit. This ain't CCR's being eclipsed Florida style MRTA"

Quote:
Posted By JeffT2 on 01/31/2016 3:43 PM
Hasn't the statute of limitations passed? If so, the HOA may (or may not) be able to remove the dock, but they can't force you to remove the dock or make you pay for it. And you probably don't have to grant them access to your property so they can remove the dock.

JeffT2 Isn't this the HOA argument ? :

"The timeliness calculation cannot start start until we get legal title. Anyway EdY's usage primarily speaks to supporting our group rights awaiting transfer from developer, not to any contrary private one for his own property." EdY's lawyer can answer.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JeffT2 on 01/31/2016 3:43 PM
Hasn't the statute of limitations passed? If so, the HOA may (or may not) be able to remove the dock, but they can't force you to remove the dock or make you pay for it. And you probably don't have to grant them access to your property so they can remove the dock.

They can just row across the lake from the side that they own in a dinghy with a chainsaw, like Jason Voorhees and Leatherface all rolled into one.

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