Common grounds

Started by GaryF12 • 11 replies • 1888 views

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GaryF12 (Colorado)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Our final plats state that all dedicated land to the city shall be maintained by the land owners(These are what the county shows as common grounds) of the association. The county records show that the city owns all the common grounds in the association except three tracts that are less than 1/4 of an acre. Our association is located in Colorado. The association has been paying for all the maintenance of all these properties for over 15 years.Our Covenants states the areas in Exhibit C the areas to be maintained, but Exhibit C list none on that page. Does any one know what the definition under CCOIA is for the definition of common areas or property are. Our covenants also say the city may own the common grounds but there is nothing on these common grounds that benefit the homeowners other than we water the grass and trees on these grounds and do all the maintenance . I asked the city if and when a park goes in on one of these common grounds who can use it. I was told since it is city property, anyone can use it and the association has no say so in what is put in this park.To be considered association property, wouldn't it have to be owned by the association and not the city?Is association property and common property the same thing?There have also been some sub association agreements after the covenants were done.
Gary

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Welcome Gary.
First, let me say that if your city is like most, they had no obligation to accept the dedication. The city accepted the dedication on condition that your HOA maintain the property. That's a contract between your HOA and the city. So I don't think you're going to find anything about that relationship in CCOIA - except the sections that say the developer or the board have the right to enter into contracts.

You are correct that anyone can use the property if it's publicly owned.

If the city made a park, then I don't think they could force you to maintain the additions - because you agreed to maintain what was there when the dedication took place. A lot depends on how things work locally in your community.

BTW, the only reference to dedication in the CCOIA is at 38-33.3-307(1.5). Hope that helps.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

May I add to NPS good advice... You will find that if the HOA doesn't maintain this property, they could be subject to fines by the city for failure to do so. Let's say you all decide to let the grass grow. Well that will attract wildlife and make it look bad. The city could fine your HOA to clean up the area for failure to maintain. Something that necessarily isn't a cheap fine.

Our HOA faced a similar issue. Our lawncare and ex-president was using an area adjacent to our HOA for putting their lawncare debris. Someone complained to the city from the neighborhood behind us. We faced an $10K fine plus added fines for everyday not cleaned up. We had 2 weeks to pick it all up. I am not sure about your HOA but we couldn't afford a 10K fine when we only gathered 5K a month.

So be careful and be accepting if this property goes city. You all may find this a good option if it becomes one. Otherwise be prepared to continue to maintain it.

Former HOA President

GaryF12 (Colorado)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Thank you for your input on this matter. I'm a little confused on your response . The final plats clearly states the property is dedicated to the city by the developer and that the landowners will maintain these properties. The county records show the city as the owners of these dedicated properties.The covenants are a little less clear on this topic. Does anyone know if the Plat or covenants govern this issue?
Gary F

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GaryF12 on 01/30/2016 8:35 AM
Thank you for your input on this matter. I'm a little confused on your response . The final plats clearly states the property is dedicated to the city by the developer and that the landowners will maintain these properties. The county records show the city as the owners of these dedicated properties.The covenants are a little less clear on this topic. Does anyone know if the Plat or covenants govern this issue?
Gary F

Not sure what your confusion is Gary, but will try to clarify.

I can own a piece of property. My name will be on the plat.

I can contract with you to maintain that property. That contract in most cases won't be recorded. So from looking only at the recordings, won't be able to tell full scope of relationship.

All of this is fairly straightforward. But there appears to be some ambiguity here - What does the term "landowners" mean? Does it refer to the city after the dedication - or does it refer to the homeowners a.k.a. lotowners a.k.a. whatever.

If you would like to share the exact language involved, will attempt to provide a better response.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

GaryF12 (Colorado)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Thanks NpS..You bring up a good point on ownership. I read into the statement on the final plat as the landowners being the city who owned those dedicated tracts. Maybe , now looking more closely at that statement, I 'm not 100% sure of that meaning, although on the final plat there is also language that states this plat has final approval by the owner of the city. We have an attorney who is going to look at this for a legal interpretation on this whole issue of maintenance. Once I get this resolved, I will let you know the outcome. Again, thanks for your interest in this matter.
GF

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Best of luck. Be sure to let us know what your lawyer says.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

I do not believe that a dedication by the developer of property to the city could, by itself, create an obligation for third parties to maintain the property. There should be some other agreement that would bind the association or property owners to maintaining the city's land. If the developer signed a contract with the city while the association was under his control there may be grounds to challenge his authority to do so.

You have referred several times to a "final plat," suggesting that the dedication to the city came at a later time. Did the developer sell some homes and then change the plat to obligate the homeowners to pay for maintenance? When you purchased your home, how were you notified of your obligation to maintain the city property?

NinaR (Florida)
Posts: 26

Posted:

We were in a neighborhood where we had 2 parks and 2 entry's that were County and association owned, same as yours. The County did maintenance on all but the ground under the community signs. The HOA maintained the flowers etc. for that space.
Although it was technically a County park, no one but the neighborhood residents used it just because it was on our common property. I guess that people would just go to a real park, not one in a private neighborhood. There was never an issue.

SusanE6 (Florida)
Posts: 102

Posted:

Behind my property and at least 13 other homes is a common area referred to as the "Nature Trail". It is platted to the Association and at one time was destined to become a nature area for the homeowners. Due to the expense, the Association abandoned it and it is a huge overgrown mess. Snakes, wild animals(including coyotes),massive weed growth, invasive trees - all of these are in this area. It butts up to another subdivision with a drainage canal between it. The city maintains the drainage canal and the subdivision on the other side is in the county. So the county maintains their side. The county side is beautiful. Our side is a disgrace. I have called the city and the county but they refuse to do anything about it as our Association owns it. I called Code Enforcement and they have refused to do anything about it.

I put up a fence due to the encroachment of thick overgrowth. Just this morning a possum ambled through and my dogs went wild. A few days ago, a huge snake made its way through the property. We have been having trouble with boa constrictors that someone let loose. My son was helping me rake out some of the debris when a raccoon fell right in front of him from a tree.

I do not know what to do. To clean up this area would cost the Association 10 of thousands of dollars. It has been let go in the 30 years I have lived here. I tried to maintain it myself behind my house but the Board in the past told me I could not maintain common area on my own due to the Docs. So I let it go and now it is a monster.

Any suggestions?

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SusanE6 on 02/04/2016 3:40 AM
I do not know what to do. To clean up this area would cost the Association 10 of thousands of dollars. It has been let go in the 30 years I have lived here. I tried to maintain it myself behind my house but the Board in the past told me I could not maintain common area on my own due to the Docs. So I let it go and now it is a monster.

The question is whether the safety risks to your property and family are more important to you than warnings from a Board that abandoned that property entirely. IMO, 2 options:
1. Clean up what you want to clean up. If Board complains tell them you only did it because they weren't doing their job.
2. Ask for the specific language in your Docs that says you can clean up the area. Let us know what they say.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

SusanE6 (Florida)
Posts: 102

Posted:

Thank you. Will check my Docs and get back to you.

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