A service of:
Community123.com
Professional websites for HOAs & condos, since 2004
🎁 1st year FREE for HOATalk members! →
← Return to Topics List

Architectural Guidelines

Started by JayM11 • 36 replies • 1565 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

JayM11 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
In our community we have architectural guidelines. Some things in the guidelines are very specific, i.e. Fencing: must be made of wood or PVC not more than X' tall. Walls must be PVC or Woodsiding with PVC or Wood trim. Other things, such as the porch railings are not mentioned at all.

There are other guidelines such as, every home must have roofing with exposed rafter tails.. There are 3 of 29 homes that comply. There are various other rules that have clearly, never been enforced.

I have done major upgrades to my home over the past few years. I am now looking to replace the rotted porch railing with wood and a stainless cable. The style I am requested to use is not present in our small community of 29 homes. (Beachside) This style however is very common in homes around us and certainly not a deviation from architectural norms. I then submitted the proper forms with the ARC chairman.

The ARC responded by saying that the covenants forbid use of anything except wood or PVC. I told them that the guidelines make no mention specific to porch railings only fences and wall trim. They said it was inferred by referring to trim. They also told me that if they made such an exception, it would be a slippery slope and could potentially allow others to do whatever they want. I feel I am being unfairly singled out because my home is the first one you see in the community when you drive in and personal feelings and taste are coming into play. I am frustrated by it because I took a dump of a home and in the end, added value indirectly to everyone in the community.

So question is, how specific do the ARC guidelines have to be?

Thank you!

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Sorry but your out of luck. You did not "add value" to anyone's home. You added more "Attractiveness" to the community. There is a big difference between the two. Value is REAL numbers. Attractiveness just attracts more potential buyers to look. So don't think improving your home brought "Value" to anyone but yourself. You can now ask for more money for your home.

The purpose of having an ARC is to make sure to keep things attractive and consistent. The materials you request to install do not fit that. What happens to the future owners who buy your house? The HOA is always revolving. The future HOA may fine the new owners for your non-compliance.

My advice is to just accept your denial. If your not planning on living in this house till you die, then I would just keep it the status quo. Why make a stink when your not staying in the bed?
Former HOA President
JayM11 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
I would equate attractiveness of a neighborhood with value. Ive purchased a number of homes in my time, the attractiveness of the neighborhood equates directly in my desire to live there. Just my opinion.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JayM11 on 01/27/2016 1:25 PM
I would equate attractiveness of a neighborhood with value

Basically, yes. A better looking home will certainly attract better offers. Most people regonize this.
JayM11 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
OK, thought it was just me...LOL
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Attracting buyers does NOT equal home value. Home values are based on REAL numbers. Those being what similar house sold or foreclosed for in a few mile radius. Those are REAL numbers. You can't sell a house based on how pretty it is. The bank doesn't set that as a price.

The best example of this is a pool. A pool does NOT add value to a home. It does make it more attractive to certain potential buyers. One does not spend $10K installing a pool and then raise the SELLING price $10K. If you were "Adding value" then you could raise the selling price to $15K. A pool doesn't add value to a home when selling. The bank won't change the appraisal price because of it. However, you may find your able to sell the house faster or get your asking price if you have a pool.

I once found a great 3 bedroom 2 bath house in a good neighborhood. The asking price was reasonable and affordable. Nothing wrong with the house. I did NOT buy it. Why? Because I hated the wallpaper. Now did the house value and appraisal price lower because of it? No. It just was NOT ATTRACTIVE. The house eventually did sell to another potential buyer. If my opinion/personal taste translated to REAL numbers that house would be worthless. That is why banks base their appraisal values on REAL recent sales prices and NOT on Attractiveness.

I am a home remodeler and have learned a few things over the years. You never install marble flooring and granite countertops in a neighborhood the houses are laminate flooring and formica. You won't recoup the expense and the sale price won't increase to cover it. Never make improvements that out price the neighborhood. You may make it more attractive to potential buyers to purchase but your not going to get your expenses back. The bank is going to base the appraisal price on what your neighbors house sold or foreclosed for in the last 6 months. NOT based on the materials your upgraded to.
Former HOA President
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/27/2016 2:53 PM
Attracting buyers does NOT equal home value. Home values are based on REAL numbers. Those being what similar house sold or foreclosed for in a few mile radius. Those are REAL numbers. You can't sell a house based on how pretty it is. The bank doesn't set that as a price.

The best example of this is a pool. A pool does NOT add value to a home. It does make it more attractive to certain potential buyers. One does not spend $10K installing a pool and then raise the SELLING price $10K. If you were "Adding value" then you could raise the selling price to $15K. A pool doesn't add value to a home when selling. The bank won't change the appraisal price because of it. However, you may find your able to sell the house faster or get your asking price if you have a pool.

I once found a great 3 bedroom 2 bath house in a good neighborhood. The asking price was reasonable and affordable. Nothing wrong with the house. I did NOT buy it. Why? Because I hated the wallpaper. Now did the house value and appraisal price lower because of it? No. It just was NOT ATTRACTIVE. The house eventually did sell to another potential buyer. If my opinion/personal taste translated to REAL numbers that house would be worthless. That is why banks base their appraisal values on REAL recent sales prices and NOT on Attractiveness.

I am a home remodeler and have learned a few things over the years. You never install marble flooring and granite countertops in a neighborhood the houses are laminate flooring and formica. You won't recoup the expense and the sale price won't increase to cover it. Never make improvements that out price the neighborhood. You may make it more attractive to potential buyers to purchase but your not going to get your expenses back. The bank is going to base the appraisal price on what your neighbors house sold or foreclosed for in the last 6 months. NOT based on the materials your upgraded to.

You have NO clue to what you are talking about!

I have underwritten home loans for what at the time was the largest mortgage company in the world.

A pool DOES add value to a home, but not at the same rate as the money spent. A kitchen and bathroom remodel tend to retain more value. Appraisals, and I have reviewed thousands, adjust for upgrades to a home.

Ever heard of "comparable sales". That means in comparison to the subject home. They will take about 5 homes that recently sold that are somewhat comparable. The appraiser will make adjustments up or down on things like sq footage, # bedrooms and baths, pool, upgrades, gated community and so on. While you may have spent $100K on a pool it may only return $10K in increased value, especially if in a gated community with a pool.

SO, please, don't make statements or give advice on matters you don't have experience!
JayM11 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
MelissaP1, thanks for hi-jacking my thread.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JayM11 on 01/27/2016 11:18 AM

So question is, how specific do the ARC guidelines have to be?

ARC guidelines are often not very specific and leave a lot of interpretation to the ARC. Unfortunately, this leads to judgement calls sometimes based on the personal preferences of the ARC members.

Do your documents provide for appealing the ARC decision? In my HOA, owners can appeal ARC decisions to the board. Obviously this has more value if the ARC members are not all also board members, which I've heard can happen.
Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
JayM11 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
I am not a real estate professional but I have bought and upgraded a number of homes. I have been blessed to have profited on each of those homes. I will say this, the market dynamics are not the same everywhere. Home's in suburban Birmingham might be a little different than on the beach in Florida where we live. Its not uncommon to have a $1M dollar home next door to a $350. Its not all square footage related either. Things like your beach access for instance are a big consideration. We are fortunate enough to live in a neighborhood that has its own beach access. There several other neighborhoods near us that dont and it shows up in the price. We call it our pool....
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Jay

To answer your questions on ARC guidelines, As a property manager, I have send very detailed guidelines, many times done by the developer. Some as many as 100 pages. Others, sadly, only are referenced through the CCRs and are very vague.

It is the responsibility of the Board and/or the standing ARC committee's responsibility to have guidelines in place. Many times they works in progress doing on the experience of the ones involved.

Sometimes, this is an opportunity for a homeowner to get involved in their community and help come up with viable ARC guidelines.
JayM11 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Yes we can appeal but unfortunately, its the essentially the same cast of characters. I just finished my 3 year term with the board. In hindsight, I probably should have done this while I was on it. Thanks for your input.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasK1 on 01/27/2016 3:38 PM
Obviously this has more value if the ARC members are not all also board members, which I've heard can happen.

It can and does, as I can attest to. My HOA's ARC has consisted of one person for the last 2 years: the president. He does it because nobody else wants to and the bylaws make the president an ex-officio member of every committee.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Yes we can appeal but unfortunately, its the essentially the same cast of characters. I just finished my 3 year term with the board. In hindsight, I probably should have done this while I was on It. Thanks for your input.


The epitome of (typical) self-serving HOA attitude.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/27/2016 1:02 PM
Sorry but your out of luck. You did not "add value" to anyone's home. You added more "Attractiveness" to the community. There is a big difference between the two. Value is REAL numbers. Attractiveness just attracts more potential buyers to look. So don't think improving your home brought "Value" to anyone but yourself. You can now ask for more money for your home.

The purpose of having an ARC is to make sure to keep things attractive and consistent. The materials you request to install do not fit that. What happens to the future owners who buy your house? The HOA is always revolving. The future HOA may fine the new owners for your non-compliance.

My advice is to just accept your denial. If your not planning on living in this house till you die, then I would just keep it the status quo. Why make a stink when your not staying in the bed?

You are 1% right Melissa. The OP's actions did not affect the "appraised value" which is usually based on historical home sales in the immediate vicinity with similar square footage, number of bedrooms and bathrooms, etc.

But the OP's actions could have an effect on the desirability and therefore the "selling price" of the houses. You may be surprised to know that the "selling price" is also a "REAL number". "Value" is in the eye of the beholder. If you like a pool, you might be willing to pay more - the additional amount you would be willing to pay is a "REAL number" too. If you don't like wallpaper, you might be willing to pay less - the amount you would lower your offer price is also a "REAL number". Those REAL numbers have "value" because they have a direct effect on the amount of money that changes hands when the house is sold.

Re your second paragraph, I have never heard of any HOA that has ever made any changes to their ARC requirements. So obviously, I totally agree with you.

Re your comment about denial - In an exchange that you and I had in a recent thread, I said that bank account interest is "income" - You said it's "profit". I asked if you would be willing to ask this question to an accounting professional. You never answered. If anyone is in DENIAL, look in the mirror. I rarely go head to head with other posters, but your advice on financial issues is so blatantly misinformed sometimes. All I ask is for you to go to someone you trust who has some professional expertise in this area - Ask their advice - And be willing to open your mind to the answer.
Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JayM11 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Sorry that did sound self serving. My unstated point is, the people who were on the Board at that time were more open minded and wouldn't mind moving the neighborhood's appearance in a more modern direction. Chances were better for me with that group. They were also more up to the challenge of fixing things that need fixing and in general, pumping more dollars into the community. Some of the folks in the current cycle are the old guard and are very closed minded and cheap. One of the members attitude is he doesn't care because he wont live much longer. That's never a good scenario if your the youngest in the neighborhood.

Fortunately, we were able to complete two of the largest projects in the community during our 3 year stint.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I am going to put it like I see it... The OP is acting a bit selfish. Adding the whole "but I am adding value" is just trying to play "hero" while doing it. Simply put. The OP isn't considering the neighborhood nor the future of it. If the OP was doing all of this work on their "Retirement" home then yes fight this rule. However, it doesn't sound like the case. Sounds more like they are remodeling the house to sell it in like 5 years.

So what they want in modification effects the future of that HOA and future owner. Who says the future owner who buys it won't just rip it all out? That feature may NOT be a buying point for them. It may make the home more unique but doesn't make it a reason to purchase. I am not going to purchase a home because of some superficial decorative feature. The future HOA shouldn't be bullied into accepting the change either if they believe their current aesthetic is the best fitting for them.

If I was on this board, I would most likely turn this down. It's just not beneficial enough of a change for ALL owners versus just one. I don't believe this change will be one of "Wow look at that home lets go look at the other houses...". It sounds more like... "Wow that house is different than the others, do they have an HOA?".

BTW NPS: I believe there are times that Income can be used to promote profit. Which is again something I don't believe the HOA should do. If I take a part-time job so I can fund a retirement fund, then that would be income that generates a profit. How would the taxes look at that if it's going to an IRA? I think an HOA using their funds to invest for later profit isn't a fit for all HOA's. Each one is different and not every one of them can take this approach.
Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
In my opinion, if the issue is type of material vs. change in design - it's open for interpretation.

New products come out all the time and if a new type of building material can aesthetically match the old material look, then I would be more likely to approve it.

However, if it's a new style (art deco vs. colonial in a colonial styled development)then that request would be denied.

My suggestion is to obtain samples of each material and provide them to the committee to compare along with a list of benefits the new material provides.
JayM11 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
I am not bullying anyone I am just asking questions. I have no plans to sell the home. I would not however make a modification that might jeopardize the value of my home by making it a architectural odd ball.

Again, thanks for hijacking my thread!!!!
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Hijacking by not agreeing with you? You welcome...

This site is not full of cheerleaders who believe everything at first blush. We are going to call it the way we see it. If you want your own opinion reflected back at you, then get a mirror. Some here may jump on your bandwagon but most going to point the best way. Painting lipstick on a pig does not make it a good kisser. Your pig needs a bit more work and consideration...
Former HOA President
JayM11 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
MelissaP1, wasn't looking for a cheerleader, just an answer to my question. Not a diatribe about everything you know. I can see why so many on this board dislike you....
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Me too.. But not going act like a child about it... Good luck on your hero ways for your HOA while getting our way... Dropping the mike I am out....
Former HOA President
JayM11 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/28/2016 8:39 AM
Me too.. But not going act like a child about it... Good luck on your hero ways for your HOA while getting our way... Dropping the mike I am out....

Good deal, move on to your next hi-jack...
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/28/2016 7:46 AM
BTW NPS: I believe there are times that Income can be used to promote profit. Which is again something I don't believe the HOA should do. If I take a part-time job so I can fund a retirement fund, then that would be income that generates a profit. How would the taxes look at that if it's going to an IRA? I think an HOA using their funds to invest for later profit isn't a fit for all HOA's. Each one is different and not every one of them can take this approach.

Melissa. Nice to see that you have used the word "income". The fact that "income" can lead to a "profit" in the case of a for-profit corporation or a "surplus" in the case of a non-profit goes without saying. Your accounting professional will tell you this.

You seem to get hung up on a few things that warrant comment:

1. REAL value. Somehow you've got it in your head that some numbers are "real" and other numbers aren't "real". The distinction in your mind is not IMO realistic.

2. Non-profit. You think that making a "profit" is an improper goal for a HOA because the HOA is a "non-profit". What you fail to understand is that HOA's don't make "profits" - HOA's make "surpluses". Have an accounting professional explain it to you.

3. You shouldn't make a comparison between yourself and your HOA. You pay income tax. Your HOA doesn't. The tax laws are totally different for individuals and non-profit organizations.

4. Outside the box thinking. In other posts, you pride yourself for thinking outside the box. But when it comes to things like finances and architectural changes, your thinking is way inside your own box. You have rules ("boxes") that can't be violated or shouldn't be violated - But you don't get any support on this forum for those views. Myself, I sometimes get positive responses and sometimes negative. But I never have posts where no one agrees. Outside the box thinking comes from paying attention to what others are saying and reevaluating your own position. I'm not saying that you should fold, I'm saying that you should pay more attention to what others have to say.
Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I do pay attention to what people have to say... Maybe a bit more than you think... For example in this post that I hijacked... Whenever I see someone posting "My changes will provide value to all if I get to do this". Nothing could be more self serving. Maybe one should then take a different approach and look at the situation at hand. Like gathering proof of what they say is true and getting a majority of like minded people to support them. Instead of just fantasizing the reality in your favor.

If this person truly added value to everyone in their HOA by their changes, then the homes around them should have sold for more or faster. It isn't PERCEIVED value you have added it is REAL value you added. Did anyone profit and prove it? No. An architectural change is an added attractive value. Does not mean one which adds home value.

My HOA when I first moved in had a few homes that could have used paint jobs. It was looking pretty shabby. Well due to a con-man I had to deal with, he tried a scheme which would have made the HOA pay for paint jobs. He would get paid, then we would have to lien the owners for the bill. Instead of falling for this load of poo, I changed the plan. I talked to those owners who needed to improve and suggested his "paint company". (I forced him to get licensed and insured before he could get a single job). He offered a low cost paint option and these owners improved the appearance of their homes. Which about 6 months later did reflect in our actual home sales. Many owners were able to ask and get $2K more for their homes on average.

So yes I can and have been involved in an architectural project in which there was REAL home value added. It is possible for it to happen. However, it is possible because of acting as a GROUP and not out of individual needs/wants. That is why when someone says they "Added value" to their HOA, you'd best bring the cashed check. Otherwise it's a pretty blanketed self serving ASSUMPTION your changes improved anyone home value. Attractive value yes... Home value/sales no...
Former HOA President
JayM11 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/28/2016 11:35 AM
I do pay attention to what people have to say... Maybe a bit more than you think... For example in this post that I hijacked... Whenever I see someone posting "My changes will provide value to all if I get to do this". Nothing could be more self serving. Maybe one should then take a different approach and look at the situation at hand. Like gathering proof of what they say is true and getting a majority of like minded people to support them. Instead of just fantasizing the reality in your favor.

If this person truly added value to everyone in their HOA by their changes, then the homes around them should have sold for more or faster. It isn't PERCEIVED value you have added it is REAL value you added. Did anyone profit and prove it? No. An architectural change is an added attractive value. Does not mean one which adds home value.

My HOA when I first moved in had a few homes that could have used paint jobs. It was looking pretty shabby. Well due to a con-man I had to deal with, he tried a scheme which would have made the HOA pay for paint jobs. He would get paid, then we would have to lien the owners for the bill. Instead of falling for this load of poo, I changed the plan. I talked to those owners who needed to improve and suggested his "paint company". (I forced him to get licensed and insured before he could get a single job). He offered a low cost paint option and these owners improved the appearance of their homes. Which about 6 months later did reflect in our actual home sales. Many owners were able to ask and get $2K more for their homes on average.

So yes I can and have been involved in an architectural project in which there was REAL home value added. It is possible for it to happen. However, it is possible because of acting as a GROUP and not out of individual needs/wants. That is why when someone says they "Added value" to their HOA, you'd best bring the cashed check. Otherwise it's a pretty blanketed self serving ASSUMPTION your changes improved anyone home value. Attractive value yes... Home value/sales no...

MelissaP1, I thought you were going drop the mic.? Is this all you do every day? I mean 5600 responses, really its a cry for help.. Just say no..
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/28/2016 11:35 AM
So yes I can and have been involved in an architectural project in which there was REAL home value added. It is possible for it to happen. However, it is possible because of acting as a GROUP and not out of individual needs/wants. That is why when someone says they "Added value" to their HOA, you'd best bring the cashed check. Otherwise it's a pretty blanketed self serving ASSUMPTION your changes improved anyone home value. Attractive value yes... Home value/sales no...

In the box thinking ... Yes. Common sense ... no.

My community has an East side and West side. Each side has a single point of entry and exit. There is a house at one of the entrances that has a broken gable vent. If you drive in that side, you can't miss the broken gable vent. If the gable vent was replaced, there is no question that the curb appeal to a prospective buyer of a house further in the community would improve. I know from experience that any house at a point of entry can affect the perceived value of all homes.

So when Jay says where his house is located, I understand and accept what he is saying. My house is at the furthest point from the entrance so I know that the condition of my house isn't likely to affect the perceived value of other houses. Location does make a difference.

Your story about a group deal is a nice story, but that has nothing to do with what Jay is talking about. His "assumptions" as you call them are rational and reasonable.
Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JayM11 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Well I had a meeting with the ARC committee today. They determined that the materials I planned to use met the style of the area and will 1) issue me a variance to move forward with my project 2) Amend the current ARC guidelines to include other appropriate materials.

Turns out the chairman and his wife were the only naysayer's, the others voted in favor of my proposal.

Lesson learned, if you think your doing the right thing don't stand for status quo.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JayM11 on 01/28/2016 1:14 PM

Lesson learned, if you think your doing the right thing don't stand for status quo.

Another lesson would be to not expect that the decision was made by the whole group until you exercise your options to present the issue yourself in front of the whole group.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 01/28/2016 1:25 PM
Posted By JayM11 on 01/28/2016 1:14 PM
Lesson learned, if you think your doing the right thing don't stand for status quo.


Another lesson would be to not expect that the decision was made by the whole group until you exercise your options to present the issue yourself in front of the whole group.

2 valuable lessons.
Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JayM11 (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Yep, the chairman had pretty much painted a picture to me that everyone agreed with him. Turns out that was not the case.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 01/28/2016 1:08 PM
Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/28/2016 11:35 AM
So yes I can and have been involved in an architectural project in which there was REAL home value added. It is possible for it to happen. However, it is possible because of acting as a GROUP and not out of individual needs/wants. That is why when someone says they "Added value" to their HOA, you'd best bring the cashed check. Otherwise it's a pretty blanketed self serving ASSUMPTION your changes improved anyone home value. Attractive value yes... Home value/sales no...

In the box thinking ... Yes. Common sense ... no.

My community has an East side and West side. Each side has a single point of entry and exit. There is a house at one of the entrances that has a broken gable vent. If you drive in that side, you can't miss the broken gable vent. If the gable vent was replaced, there is no question that the curb appeal to a prospective buyer of a house further in the community would improve. I know from experience that any house at a point of entry can affect the perceived value of all homes.

So when Jay says where his house is located, I understand and accept what he is saying. My house is at the furthest point from the entrance so I know that the condition of my house isn't likely to affect the perceived value of other houses. Location does make a difference.

Your story about a group deal is a nice story, but that has nothing to do with what Jay is talking about. His "assumptions" as you call them are rational and reasonable.

To amplify. Over the years in looking at homes to purchase, if I did not like the "approach/curb appeal" (and this could include streets leading to the home), I have said to realtors, skip this listing.

An HOA with an unappealing/shabby entryway and a few homes not up to "par" after entering the HOA, and I will not even view a particular house.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 01/28/2016 1:25 PM
Posted By JayM11 on 01/28/2016 1:14 PM

Lesson learned, if you think your doing the right thing don't stand for status quo.


Another lesson would be to not expect that the decision was made by the whole group until you exercise your options to present the issue yourself in front of the whole group.

Well said.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here

Terms of Use and Privacy Statement