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PatriciaL1 (California)
Posts: 78
Posted:
Okay, another angle for the solar panel discussion.

Our HOA has begun to allow solar panels. We are townhouse style, so each roof only applies to one home. Neither our CC&Rs nor our R&Rs directly address solar panels, but they do refer to lightly to satellite dishes and antennae, more so to skylights. Essentially the R&Rs say that failure of any structure the skylight or other modification is the responsibility of the homeowner and subsequent owners.

Because the R&R does say "any and all structures" I would like to think this is a place where we can "add to" or "clarify" the documents and include solar panels and the responsibility for maintenance, damage, etc., etc., for as long as the panels are on the building, regardless of the change in ownership. I have a nice solar policy drawn up already which includes as a final paragraph the following:

**The Association requires the homeowner provide for the maintenance, repair, or replacement of roofs or other building components that could be affected by the installation and use of the system. The owner of the solar energy system shall indemnify or reimburse the HOA and/or its members for loss or damage caused by the installation, maintenance or use of the solar energy system.**

Meanwhile we have an ex-board member who is requesting that we ask for a legal document, an easement for the roof, that is filed with the city so that it will be recorded. I thought easements were only for access, entrance, exit, really for the ground, never for the roof. (Yes, I understand there is a right to the sun - a solar easement - but this is not a document recorded with the city.

Ever heard of this? Am I off base thinking an "easement" does not apply?

Thanks
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Who insures the roofs?
PatriciaL1 (California)
Posts: 78
Posted:
HOA insures the roofs. Walls out. Homeowner is to carry insurance which covers the skylights and damage which they may cause in the unlikely event they are blown off the roof.

CC&Rs and R&Rs says that any homeowner modifications are the responsibility of the homeowner. Example is in the case of skylights ~ if a leak occurs and it is determined it is due to the skylight then it is the responsibility of the homeowner ~ if it is determined to be due to the integrity of the roof then it is the HOA.

Turns out the real concern is the next owner. Is an easement filed with the city required so the homeowner responsibility carries over to the next owner? First I don't think an easement is the correct wording. Second, isn't it understood by CC&Rs and R&Rs that modifications are homeowner responsibility even if there is a subsequent owner.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PatriciaL1 on 01/15/2016 2:13 PM
Meanwhile we have an ex-board member who is requesting that we ask for a legal document, an easement for the roof, that is filed with the city so that it will be recorded. I thought easements were only for access, entrance, exit, really for the ground, never for the roof. (Yes, I understand there is a right to the sun - a solar easement - but this is not a document recorded with the city.

Ever heard of this? Am I off base thinking an "easement" does not apply?

Easement is the correct term. Whether it needs to be recorded is a different story.

Ground - roof - doesn't make a different. Creates a right of passage or entry for a specific purpose.

I expect that the HOA already has an easement for the skylights and the roof. While the responsibility for each may be in different hands, I would expect that the HOA has an easement to go on the roof to take appropriate action. If solar panels are added, that should also be covered by same easement.

Check your docs and state laws to see what is the exact nature of the easement the HOA has.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Pat

In many associations, the association is responsible for the roofs and access/changes to the roofs are basically forbidden. As your association already allows owners to install skylights it should not be a big leap to allow solar panel installation.

One area of concern might be using multi companies to install thus it could end up looking like a hodge podge.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 01/16/2016 7:23 AM
Pat

In many associations, the association is responsible for the roofs and access/changes to the roofs are basically forbidden. As your association already allows owners to install skylights it should not be a big leap to allow solar panel installation.

One area of concern might be using multi companies to install thus it could end up looking like a hodge podge.

HOA restrictions on solar are being successfully challenged. (Interference with energy efficiency / Fed statutes, etc)

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
PatriciaL1 (California)
Posts: 78
Posted:
Argument being made is not that they are challenging the solar installation but rather they want to be sure the next owner knows they are responsible for the panels (and any damage to the roof caused by). He feels the new owner won't know this unless a special easement is recorded with the city. I say that they know (or should know) they are responsible in the same way they are responsible for skylights (not city recorded). CC&Rs, rules and regs do not specifically say solar panels but rather say homeowner additions. Not reading the CC&Rs does not absolve responsibility. This particular homeowner (disgruntled ex-board member) actually wants the panels removed when the unit is sold. I say if we allow skylights then panels fall under the same matrix of responsibility ~ and we do not remove them on sale. After all they may be selling points to the home. Responsibility lies with the *current* owner.

I understand easement is access. He says easement is ownership. Solar panel owner owns more of his home than the next neighbor. I still feel if we don't ask for easement documents for skylights we should not ask for them for solar panels.

Thanks for reading. Thanks for your comments.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Another difference with solar.

Know of CA homeowners who are entering into leasing (or lease/purchase) agreement for solar panels. Those agreements can be complex - and can involve rights to remove panels by installer/servicer, responsibility to return roof to original condition after lease period (by installer/servicer or homeowner, etc).

Complications could arise if installer/servicer goes out of business, homeowner files for bankruptcy, etc.

Also, there could be a dispute between installer/servicer and homeowner because the actual performance and costs do not match the pre-sale projections. Or any other disappointment in a relationship that probably runs 10-20 years anyway.

So I would say - nope - solar isn't necessarily like skylights.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PatriciaL1 on 01/16/2016 10:35 AM
I understand easement is access. He says easement is ownership.


An easement is the right to enter and use another's property. An easement does not change ownership.

There are many types of easements: ingress and egress, drainage, wildlife, and utilities are common. I own land that has a "grazing easement" that allows the seller's cattle to eat my grass; it's an open range area but I can terminate his easement by installing a fence.

Regardless of how your HOA gives permission to install anything, including solar panels and skylights, the documents should be recorded to protect all involved. There have been too many threads on this forum where a homeowner insists he was given permission by a previous board many years earlier to modify his property but has lost all the paperwork and the current board claims it is a violation.

PatriciaL1 (California)
Posts: 78
Posted:
Excellent points. Thank you. So how does the HOA protect against bankruptcy or other similar problem?
PatriciaL1 (California)
Posts: 78
Posted:
We thought if we clarified the CC&Rs to say the homeowner was responsible then that would be good enough. Especially since there are likely to be many more homeowners placing panels on their roofs. (Several have expressed interest bit not moved forward...yet...) Does a well worded (legal) documentation in the CC&Rs or rules and regs offer enough?
PatriciaL1 (California)
Posts: 78
Posted:
We thought if we clarified the CC&Rs to say the homeowner was responsible then that would be good enough. Especially since there are likely to be many more homeowners placing panels on their roofs. (Several have expressed interest bit not moved forward...yet...) Does a well worded (legal) documentation in the CC&Rs or rules and regs offer enough?
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
In my HOA we have accumulated a lot of specially-approved alterations over the years. Mostly these are bordered planting beds and shrubs, but there are 2 homes with solar panels on their roofs to heat swimming pools. There's also an instance of an owner who wanted some landscape changes to alleviate a drainage issue. In all these cases the board approved the changes as long as the owner agreed to pay the entire cost and assume future responsibility for the changes.

Unfortunately there are no records of when these special requests were approved or the homes which were affected. So new owners move in with no idea that there are things previous owners committed to maintaining.

I would argue that no board has the authority to grant special dispensation in this manner since these approvals are tantamount to creating additional covenants that "run with the land". Then new owners are never notified of these additional responsibilities, and the HOA is then stuck with the maintenance going forward.

"Easement" is the wrong word. "Additional covenant" is the proper term since potential buyers should have a right to know about these things in advance and the only legal way to put them on notice is through a deed restriction. That's how I see it, anyway.
PatriciaL1 (California)
Posts: 78
Posted:
Excellent. We are in the process of updating our CC&Rs (covenants, conditions and restrictions). Right now, our CC&Rs make note of skylights, hot tubs, more things than I can remember, and then they say something like any other additions. I would like solar panels to be specified in the CC&Rs. Until the rewrite is completed we wanted to add something to our Rules and Regulations like this:

**The Association requires the homeowner provide for the maintenance, repair, or replacement of roofs or other building components that could be affected by the installation and use of the system. The owner of the solar energy system shall indemnify or reimburse the HOA and/or its members for loss or damage caused by the installation, maintenance or use of the solar energy system.**

As an additional covenant in the (updated) CC&Rs it would be a better way to make it clear to future purchasers that they were responsible for the solar panels.

I can work with this.

Thanks all.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PatriciaL1 on 01/16/2016 11:16 AM
Excellent points. Thank you. So how does the HOA protect against bankruptcy or other similar problem?

Generally speaking, bankruptcy gets rid of personal debts but not obligations that run with the land. A recorded easement would be an obligation tied to the land independently of the personal finances of the person filing for bankruptcy.

IMO, solar is an emerging area where the legal issues are not fully settled. Reminds me of something in our specs - there's more written in our specs about antennas and dishes than anything else - I guess that's because it was a hot topic many years ago and our HOA dealt with it - But no one has put up an antenna or dish in more than a decade. When it comes to solar, everyone is still finding their way just like we were finding our way on dishes many years ago.

Suggest that you ask your HOA to get a legal opinion from your HOA lawyer. Decision shouldn't IMO be based on personal attitudes or biases.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PatriciaL1 on 01/16/2016 2:39 PM
**The Association requires the homeowner provide for the maintenance, repair, or replacement of roofs or other building components that could be affected by the installation and use of the system. The owner of the solar energy system shall indemnify or reimburse the HOA and/or its members for loss or damage caused by the installation, maintenance or use of the solar energy system.**

The owner of the solar system may be someone other than the homeowner.
Might want to add removal to installation, maintenance and use.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

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