Water meters

Started by JoeS30 • 14 replies • 3829 views

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JoeS30 (California)
Posts: 4

Posted:

I am Pres of an HOA consisting of two adjacent 6 unit complexes, identical in structure (Ill call them complex-1 and complex-2). Both were built a couple years apart in the mid 70's. The HOA pays all water bills for the owners. We are serviced by a small private water company who only has about 250 total connections.

Complex-1 has a single main water meter that feeds 6 units and common area.

Complex-2 has 7 main water meters (6 for each unit, 1 for common area). The problem is, and has been for YEARS, the water company charges us $39 dollar meter fee plus water usage. Therefore complex-1 bill is $39 meter fee, plus water usage, complex-2 bill is $273 meter fees (7 meters @ $39ea) plus water usage. Complex-2 pays an extra $2808/yr in meter fees over complex-1!

In a bid to save $2800 in unnecessary water meter costs, I would like to stop service on 6 of the 7 meters in complex-2, then tie all 6 units into the single remaining meter, just as complex-1 is setup.

Water company is balking as expected, as they would lose meter fee revenue, though do they have a choice if we choose to stop service on 6 of 7 meters? is it legal for us to pipe all 6 units of this multi-dwelling into the single meter, on our side of the property, our plumbing?

Just looking for some advice other then trudging thru search results on the internet for hours.

-JoePres

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

I was never an advocate of the HOA paying the water bill. My advice is switch all units to there own, individual meter and let them pay their own water bills.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

If you want legal advice you really need to see your association attorney. You might also see if there's some sort of government agency in your area that oversees utilities and ask them (in my state, for example, the utilities have to get approval to increase rates).

Since the water company doesn't own your property, I'd worry less about them and more about the HOA's ability to pay, as you're already aware. Personally, I think you'd be better off looking at a way to give complex 1 separate meters for each unit and the one you already have can cover the common area. This way everyone pays their own bill and you don't get any squawking over things like "my neighbor uses twice as much water as I do - why do I have to pay for my water and his/her overuse?"

Hopefully, your HOA can cover the conversion without a special assessment, but if homeowners had to pay one (remember, they'll have to pre-approve it), it would help everyone in the long run because the HOA would avoid a situation that occurred in a HOA community down the street from me. It has 150 or so townhomes and one meter and two years ago, they had a terrible delinquency rate (over 50%). Of course, this put a crimp on the HOA's ability to pay its bills. The water bill got so high, the water company got fed up with not being paid and sent disconnect notices to EVERYONE. If the Board hadn't found the money, everyone would have been cut off in two days from the notice - however, homeowners had to cough up $500 each to deal with it. How you'd like to be someone who'd faithfully paid assessments as legally required only to get hit with another $500 bill because other homeowners didn't meet their obligations?

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

JoeS30 (California)
Posts: 4

Posted:

I totally agree with both of you. As a matter of fact, that is the way I presented it to the water company. I told them I wanted to implement sub-metering so the HOA can start having the owners pay for their own water. I explained complex-1 is ripe for sub-metering having only 1 main water company meter. However, complex-2 has 7 water company meters and we just want 1 so we can control our own sub-metering.

Sure I can just turn those 6 individual bills from the water company over to the individual units in complex-2, but the water company meter fee of $39 will follow. Id rather streamline and do away with 6 of their meters/fees, and just use 1 from the water company, then install our own meters so that the HOA is in control of sub-metering.

Maybe its as easy as asking the water company to stop service on 6 meters (as if they have been temporarily vacated), but never turn them back on. Then tie the 6 units into the single water main we leave active.

Your right, maybe I need an attorney if the water company resists.

By the way, we are in California, 12 units, 11 apathetic owners, 3 board members. Not too difficult for me as Pres to get things done around here.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Recommendation: Run the 2 complexes separately.

Complex 2. Investigate what needs to be done to transfer ownership and billing to the individual units. See if you can remove the HOA from all responsibility except the 7th meter.

Complex 1. No need to make changes to the physical systems. Make each unit responsible for 1/6 of the cost. Easiest way is to bill each unit the same amount each month or quarter. Once a year, send refunds or additional bills based on actual net cost (adjusted for seasonal fluctuations and non-payments).

If your piping hasn't been altered for 40 years, I wouldn't rush to change anything I didn't have to.

Can always investigate sub-metering or other changes to physical systems at a later date.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

I would think the water company would be ok with this if they bothered to think things through. They would probably have to install the submeters, which homeowners would have to pay for, charge everyone the mater fee (is that monthly or a one-time thing?) and then they get to charge monthly rates, with the folks who use more of it having to pay more. Seems like they make money regardless.

However, you have a bigger problem - the apathetic homeowners (is it me or does it seem the smaller the community the more apathetic people get?) To get them to snap out of it (at least for this issue), gather as much information as possible on the costs, how long it would take to install the meters, what the HOA has paid in the past and might pay in the future (you're in California and don't you guys have a major drought issue right now?) Present the options, have a discussion and then take a vote - spending money or saving it is always a good motivator.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 01/13/2016 2:09 PM
However, you have a bigger problem - the apathetic homeowners (is it me or does it seem the smaller the community the more apathetic people get?)

My own unscientific small-sample-size estimate is that in any association there's about 15% to 20% of the owners willing to get involved and take on responsibility. An imprecise estimate, obviously. Associations with a smaller number of members are going to see smaller numbers of people willing to serve.

BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JoeS30 on 01/13/2016 12:50 PM
. . The HOA pays all water bills for the owners.

Complex-1 has a single main water meter that feeds 6 units and common area.

Complex-2 has 7 main water meters (6 for each unit, 1 for common area).

In a bid to save $2800 in unnecessary water meter costs, I would like to stop service on 6 of the 7 meters in complex-2, then tie all 6 units into the single remaining meter, just as complex-1 is setup.

JoeS30 : You say that water consumption is 'bulk-paid' by the HOA but that half the units are sub-metered at $39 per month per meter.

UNLESS your CCRs/condo Declaration provide specifically for bulk-payment only, I cannot imagine in 2016 why anything other than individual sub-metering & unit-by-unit direct payment by each unit to the water supply authority, would even be considered.

(In my jurisdiction illegal Declaration-defying conversion from bulk to sub-metering ran afoul of specifics in decades-old Declarations.)

With aging water meters likely loosing reliably, isn't it worth - IF LEGAL - the costs to convert to individually metered/individually paid water consumption that will discourage wastage ?

JoeS30 (California)
Posts: 4

Posted:

Totally agree. Our HOA is living in the 70's when our bylaws and CCRs were constructed. Its been calm, cool, laid back vibe for 40 years in a rural California beach town in an unincorporated area of our County. Our CCRs only says to the effect; utilities are to be paid by the HOA for benefit of the condos unless the utility is separately billed to the condo.

So you suggest instead of griping about removing 6 meters with their 6 monthly meter fees in complex-2, I should be requesting the water company ADD 6 meters to complex 1, so that both complexes are the same (7 meters each), then transfer payment responsibility of the individual meters to the owners except for the common area meters? This would provide more revenue for the water company, and less liability for the HOA.

Nobody here has ever complained about paying someone else share of water. They are all just happy water in included in their dues. I was just trying to find a way to save $234/month of unnecessary water meter fees, considering the HOA pays all water.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

My story. 80 townhouses. 1 meter. 30 year old community.

Approached water utility a couple of times. They are very happy having no responsibility on the homeowner side of the meter. They have no interest in adding to their servicing responsibilities. Also, they are very happy with 1 customer that pays like clockwork instead of having 80 accounts that may have individual ownership change and collection issues.

As townhouses, we have an advantage over condos. HOA is only responsible for pipes under streets. Individual homeowners have responsibility from the curb to the unit and inside the unit. Yours is probably more complicated, especially if you lack as-installed site plans and easy access to piping. Common problem for that age buildings.

We got bids from sub-metering companies. There are good one's out there who can help with financing meters and installation, doing the meter reading and individual billings to homeowners independently of the association, and handling all communications for you.

Haven't gone that route yet because we decided to focus on reducing water consumption before we did anything else. Gave $150 rebate for each toilet replaced. Bought shower heads and faucet aerators - and gave them away. Total cost to HOA - around $21k. Annual water and sewer savings - around $11k. Paid for itself in around 2 years. Everything after that is gravy.

With 40 year old pipes and fixtures, think you will get more bang for your buck if you focus on conversion to WaterSense products before chasing small dollar savings from reducing the number of meters.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Joe

I have to assume that the utility company owns the meters and is responsible for the lines up to the meter to the homes, after which the homeowner or the association would be responsible.

Not sure the utility company, as small as you mentioned they are, would entertain your proposal. Who pays for the changeover? In today's economy, I don't see them in agreement with you.

JoeS30 (California)
Posts: 4

Posted:

Update:
What the water company kindly explained since my last post is the meter fee I've been referring to is also knows as the "readiness-to-service" flat charge on every meter regardless of water usage. The charge increases as the pipe size increases (3/4" is $39/month, 1" is $95/month with my water company). Its charged per meter by nearly every water company.

According to my water company; the owners are responsible for the monthly readiness-to-service meter charge so long as they are in ownership, even if they vacate. The charge is set by the PUC based on the water company's revenue. Removing meters would unfairly increase these fees for everyone else in the district when the PUC resets the tariffs. Also,the water company does not want less revenue, and they cannot apply more fees to my single meter to offset the revenue loss in disconnecting other 6 meters (lots of red tape).

Apparently, our water is pretty cheap and we are only paying a "few dollars" per month in water, the rest is readiness-to-service meter fees. So I don't really see a way to fairly transfer the water usage to the individual units without splitting the HOA in 2 (each complex separate HOA), which was a suggestion above, and a occasional consideration of ours for other reasons. However, for now I think we will remain status quo and encourage conservation & appliance upgrades. I like the idea of new toilet rebates and supplying free shower fixtures.

Thanks to all for responding!!! As a fairly new decision maker/HOA board member, this was my first entry and I am pleasantly surprised with the interaction from you all! Its refreshing to have a forum where people read, think, and deliver intelligent answers for a change!

Best regards,

Joe

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Joe,

There have been several threads in the past where condos wanted to meter every unit because someone thinks he is paying more than his fair share for water. I have usually advised against this and one reason is that the water company is going to impose a minimum charge (by whatever name they choose) for each meter. The end result will be that everyone will pay far more and no one will pay less than they are already paying for their portion of the shared water bill.

As to your water company's assertions, "Removing meters would unfairly increase these fees for everyone else in the district when the PUC resets the tariffs. Also,the water company does not want less revenue, and they cannot apply more fees to my single meter to offset the revenue loss in disconnecting other 6 meters (lots of red tape)" my response is, "Cry me a river." That is not your problem. Your problem is that half your residents are paying six times as much for service as the other half. What the water company is telling you is that by paying so much more you are subsidizing other users who, if you completed your plan, might actually be forced to pay their own fair share. I am not at all persuaded by the water company's arguments.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LarryB13 on 01/14/2016 7:04 AM
There have been several threads in the past where condos wanted to meter every unit because someone thinks he is paying more than his fair share for water. I have usually advised against this and one reason is that the water company is going to impose a minimum charge (by whatever name they choose) for each meter. The end result will be that everyone will pay far more and no one will pay less than they are already paying for their portion of the shared water bill.

When we investigated sub-metering, we learned that we could install separate meters, bill each of the homeowners the SAME as they would be charged individually by the water utility, and cover all costs (including installation, cost of meters, billing, etc). But unlike here, our ratio was 80-to-1.

Quote:

Posted By LarryB13 on 01/14/2016 7:04 AM
As to your water company's assertions, "Removing meters would unfairly increase these fees for everyone else in the district when the PUC resets the tariffs. Also,the water company does not want less revenue, and they cannot apply more fees to my single meter to offset the revenue loss in disconnecting other 6 meters (lots of red tape)" my response is, "Cry me a river." That is not your problem. Your problem is that half your residents are paying six times as much for service as the other half. What the water company is telling you is that by paying so much more you are subsidizing other users who, if you completed your plan, might actually be forced to pay their own fair share. I am not at all persuaded by the water company's arguments.

Problem is with the builder, not the water utility. Utility bears no responsibility for the different arrangement in the two buildings. As far as what an employee of the utility company said, it's meaningless if it wasn't in writing.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

There is also another factor in this scenario to consider. You will have to change your documents to reflect the change. If it is already documented the HOA pays for the water. Otherwise, a new owner or existing one may think the HOA is responsible for water to find out they are now responsible. That change to your CC&R's and Article of Incorporation costs money and usually requires a HIGH percentage of owner approval. We are talking up to 100% of a membership vote.

We went with separate water meters. The previous setup allowed us to stop the water to units if they did not pay their dues. The change to the separate meters changed that. Plus it lowered our expenses. Although we did have to have a special assessment to pay for the water company to come in and install the meters. That was like 20K. Plus we had to turn over our roads to the city. Our roads were no longer private. In order for them to service the meters our roads had to allow them utility access. Another change we had to change in our documents.

So it's not just installing separate water meters. There are other consequences once done. Ones you may not expect or know of...

Former HOA President

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