Snow

Started by FredL1 • 15 replies • 1636 views

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FredL1 (Colorado)
Posts: 8

Posted:

Hello I'm new here, Trying to get a grip on snow. We are located Colorado, against the Mountains 8500 feet or so. The Association has about 50 35 acre lots. Over the last 10 years or so we have been in a drought and have not really addressed snow removal as there has not been much. Times have changed.

I went over every document that I Could google on snow removal for and have not found much, not even Colorado Common Interest Ownership act has any information.

Our roads are private and we take in 300.00 a year.

Can somebody point me in the right direction.

Thanks

Fred

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Fred

Send the bill to the government, as they are in charge of climate change.

FredL1 (Colorado)
Posts: 8

Posted:

Hi Richard. The climate change has worked in our favour. Colorado back in the 80's was cold. Deep snow and very cold, like, bad decision and you die cold. So I have no invoice. But I do have folks that want to be ploughed out on someone else's dime.

f

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By FredL1 on 01/10/2016 2:40 PM
Hi Richard. The climate change has worked in our favour. Colorado back in the 80's was cold. Deep snow and very cold, like, bad decision and you die cold. So I have no invoice. But I do have folks that want to be ploughed out on someone else's dime.

f

It was intended as a joke to a government that I am hugely in favor of right now.

First, I would review your CCRs to see WHO really is responsible for maintenance of the private road and who might be responsible for snow removal. Is it a gate community where traffic is restricted or open to all vehicle. Check with your local government. They may be able to help and IF your association has to do snow removal, they or the people that actually do the removal should be able to give you a price in which then to budget for.

Being in Southern California, once we get the rain, snow is headed to your state.

FredL1 (Colorado)
Posts: 8

Posted:

We have a gate out at the highway. The roads are Private. Our CCr's point to the board as being responsible for road maintenance. We take in 300.00 per lot with about 15K coming in the door. Because of the steep hills we can spend 10K easy on the roads in the summer. We had a few folks that live here ploughing. But that coming to an end.

We have a contractor that can come in with a grader @ 110.00 and hour. that’s a good price, but a big snow can be 800.00 easy. So you can see what is going to happen to us.

Is the snow ploughing considered road maintenance? I'm thinking so but I am hearing arguments.

Thanks Richard

Fred

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

I live in Virginia and our Association also own the roads.

Plowing of the streets is the responsibility of the Association, as it is considered common area. Shoveling parking spaces and sidewalks are the responsibility of the owners.

Your budget should plan for a normal snowfall and plowing of the roads.

You will need to utilize a special assessment or create a contingency fund for extra heavy snowfalls. Currently we budget $7,000 a year for snow removal. Any funds available due to being under budget are transferred to a contingency line item in the Reserves. This line item was created for the purpose of funding shortfalls in snow removal (which we determine to be maintenance of the roadways) and other reserve items. This fund was started after we had to spend around $13,000 over budget for snow removal in 2010.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Let me put it a different way.

If there is an accident because the roads were not plowed after a storm and someone was injured or killed, who do you think the attorney's will come after? That's right, the Association. Hence, it's in the best interest of the membership for the Association to make sure that the roads are plowed.

FredL1 (Colorado)
Posts: 8

Posted:

Thanks Tim.

FredL1 (Colorado)
Posts: 8

Posted:

Tim I'm on your page, we have 50 lots out of that we have 12 homes out of that we have 6 of us that live here year round. I'm hearing the majority is not paying for the snowploughing of the few. So somewhere the logic split that we have road maintenance then snow ploughing.

So I have to pull this thing together. The good thing is most of the homes are on one section of the roads, so I would not have to plough all the roads. If no one lives on them and no drives the unploughed roads there is no damage. I can close them in the winter.

You should see some of the drop off's we have.

So snow ploughing is considered road maintenance?

Thanks

Fred

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By FredL1 on 01/10/2016 4:00 PM
So snow ploughing is considered road maintenance?

If it's clearly stated in your organizing docs, it is what those docs say. If not, it's the board's responsibility to interpret. IMO it can be argued either way. The availability of funds will probably be the determining factor.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

JerryD5 (Colorado)
Posts: 218

Posted:

I have a friend that lives in the similar setup (though at a much lesser altitude). Their roads are private as well and are responsible for the maintenance of them. They pay the county to come through and plow. It is much cheaper apparently than a private contractor.

It sounds like you might have to raise the association dues to cover snow removal costs. To me, it wouldn't matter if some residents were not there year around.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Fred,

My association has some similarities and some differences. We have about 1600 lots 36 acres and up scattered over about 400 square miles. We have 300 miles of dirt roads that the association is responsible for grading. We own our own equipment and have our own employees. About 10% of our lots are lived on full time, another 25% have part time residents, and the rest are unimproved. My 39-acre lot costs me about $130 per year. Our assessments are based on the number of acres we each own.

Because we are located at roughly the 5,000 foot elevation we get some winter snow. While we grade the roads we do not plow snow. Removing snow from a dirt road sounds like an exercise in futility because once you remove the slippery snow you are left with slippery mud. We have had some owners who have plowed the snow from their roads but they seldom receive a word of thanks because when they scrape away the snow they also scrape away the gravel plating the road surface.

Our roads are all located on easements on the perimeter of each lot. Technically, the roads are public but the county does no maintenance for us at all. I think the county treats our roads as driveways because most eventually dead-end at the last lot on the road. I think part of the problem is we have lots of land but very few voters so there is little reason for the elected county supervisors to be concerned about our roads.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By FredL1 on 01/10/2016 4:00 PM

You should see some of the drop off's we have.

I've been to Colorado several times. Even lived in Denver for 6 months.
My Daughter attended Colo. State in Ft. Collins and my Sister owns a home in Estes that we have visited several times.

Therefore, I know the drop offs. Great Country out there (I miss the Rockies).

FredL1 (Colorado)
Posts: 8

Posted:

I want to thank Everybody for the help.

We are going to introduce the changes this week. I will let you know how it goes. But at the end of the day everybody wants snow plowing.

Fred

BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By FredL1 on 01/11/2016 6:45 AM
We are going to introduce the changes this week. I will let you know how it goes. But at the end of the day everybody wants snow plowing. Fred

FredL1(Col)

Now may be a good time to address ATTEMPTS to minimize liability on your private road(s). You should review your risks with insured professional legal help.

Mind if I make a couple of respectful suggestions ?

( We had almost 13 feet of snowfall one winter within my general area several decades here. In approx 1880 snow fell for 7 days killing/starving livestock in barns blockaded by a 6 foot non-stop snowfall. July snowfalls are uncommon in my immediate area, but ten to 15 inch snowfalls in another jurisdiction here have occurred even in Septembers. Not even talking Buffalo NY either.

For a dozen years we also owned a lakeside cottage with private road issues likely similar. With other owners tried to deal with occupiers liability/risk reduction / signage / trespasser injuries etc . . .)

Your jurisdiction may legislate occupier liability on owners of private roads.

Good time for you to quickly & properly hire/research skillsets ALSO about how such risks can be reduced by EFFECTIVE signage, signed waivers etc . Also how much & what type liability/D&O etc insurance coverage to update. Also about ice control, snowplowing triggering levels, physical contracts / insurance etc

Trespassing minors having fun on snowmobiles or ATVs may be great. But their risks may be extra difficult to legally preclude. Snowplows themselves are a risk.

Other owners may not want to spend much until some loss or injury. Think parallel about GROUND FLOOR unit owners asked to help suck up quarter million dollar refits for each elevator.

PROVEN adequacy & frequency of road maintenance may be biggies to TRY to reduce big awards that may exceed your insurance coverage.

Respectfully, before your co-owners are next asked to spend bucks & do the right thing, be armed with some competent legal input appropriate to your special risks as private road owners.

FredL1 (Colorado)
Posts: 8

Posted:

Thanks Bob.

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