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GreggK2 (Kansas)
Posts: 86
Posted:
I just completed my first year as our HOA president. I went from knowing nothing to feeling like I have really nailed this down. We turned our HOA, which was poised to be bankrupt by last December, back to a level where we have a sizable amount in savings. This was mostly in part to us getting MANY past due accounts caught back up.

We had out HOA annual meeting 2 nights ago. I was not surprised when one table was more than vocal (they were actually the only ones) because the 2 couples had something in common...we had to sue them to get them to pay their dues. They came at me left and right during the open discussion but we kept them in line, as did a number of other home owners who were tired of hearing them ramble on.

Now, one of those home owners is saying they want to be on the board. We know she is doing this for all the wrong reasons. She does not want to contribute...she wants to tears things apart. None of us on the board think she would contribute anything positive but I am unclear as to how we can block her from consideration. Our bylaws state that any home owner that is in good standing (current on dues) can apply to be a board member but there are no stated qualifications. It would be up to the home owners to vote the person onto the board but many are unaware of the hostile interactions she has had with us. All they would see is a name on the ballot. Thankfully, she failed to apply to the board for this last meeting so we have a full year before we have to deal with her again. Any thoughts?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Unless your governing documents have qualifiers that she doesn't meet, you can't block her.

However, you can make sure that:

a) you offer alternatives (knock on doors and have more than enough candidates)

b) you get the vote out (if proxies are allowed, knock on doors to solicit proxies so you control a large portion of the vote.

c) If they are elected, and expecting that you are still on the Board, don't make her an Officer or make her an Officer that has minimal impact on the decisions (I certainly wouldn't make her treasurer if you had to sue to have them pay assessments).

GreggK2 (Kansas)
Posts: 86
Posted:
Interesting side note. Our bylaws state:

Section 2. Application for Membership. Applications for membership to the Board of Directors shall be made in the manner prescribed by the Membership Committee, where so directed by a resolution of the Board of Directors. Applications must be requested no later than October 31st and must be submitted no later than November 30th in the year prior to following year’s annual meeting. Honorary memberships shall be determined under terms and conditions as specified by resolution of the Board of Directors.

But there is no membership committee nor are there any qualifications listed. Can we create a Membership Committee and they outline our own qualifications? For example, I would think it is fair to disqualify someone from applying if they have been sued by the HOA within the past 2-3 years (just an example) or to someone who has displayed financial irresponsibility in dealing with the board. This particular person was 3 years behind so we setup a pay arrangement. Before making their first payment, they got pissed off at us and sent an email stating they intend to move out of the subdivision. It was a bluff but we took them at their word, filed a suit and they paid their entire balance right after the sheriff process served them.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
What does your corporate attorney say ?
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
? What to do about bad prospective Presidents of the United States of America ?

or Senators

or Representatives

or Councilmen

?

If y'all vote 'em in, y'all live with their actions

? simplistic ?

yes

? accurate ?

yes
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 351
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 01/08/2016 8:10 AM
What does your corporate attorney say ?

Why spend good money for an answer that is readily available for free.

Anyone eligible to be on the HOA and the Board can run, regardless of what other officers think of them.

Saved you too hundred bucks.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Here is a concept out of your own playbook... Let them run and be elected if they win. As long as they meet the requirements to be on the board of being in good standing. Why? Simply because your eyes were opened up when you got on the board wasn't it? Seems to me let them see the other side of the room. The reflection changes...

Former HOA President
GreggK2 (Kansas)
Posts: 86
Posted:
Would you say that the board should allow someone on that the board just had to sue to get them to pay their fees? We want to have people on the board who can make a positive contribution, not someone who wants to undue everything good we managed to get done this past year.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 351
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GreggK2 on 01/08/2016 8:54 AM
Would you say that the board should allow someone on that the board just had to sue to get them to pay their fees? We want to have people on the board who can make a positive contribution, not someone who wants to undue everything good we managed to get done this past year.

The democratic process does not give two hoots about what you think. It is not up to you or anyone else to "allow" members who are otherwise eligible for election to run.

All you can do is to encourage others to run against them.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM31 on 01/08/2016 8:58 AM
Posted By GreggK2 on 01/08/2016 8:54 AM
Would you say that the board should allow someone on that the board just had to sue to get them to pay their fees? We want to have people on the board who can make a positive contribution, not someone who wants to undue everything good we managed to get done this past year.


The democratic process does not give two hoots about what you think. It is not up to you or anyone else to "allow" members who are otherwise eligible for election to run.

All you can do is to encourage others to run against them.

Agree with Mark on this. We have a prior board member who we fear will run again. Because of him, every meeting ran at least an hour longer than it needed to. The screaming matches was the major reason why one person resigned and others don't want to run.

The flip side is - Every member in good standing has the right to run. Any new restrictions added to what we have now would have to be approved by a super-majority of homeowners. Not worth the effort. Better to recruit people to run against the bad egg. Sometimes, avoiding the bad egg is the only thing that gets complacent people off their butts. That's politics I guess.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 351
Posted:
You come up with a reason to not allow others to run, soon they'll cook up a reason to disallow you.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
I don't want Donald Trump to be president, but from everything I've been able to determine, it's up to the voters to decide. I think the OP's case is similar.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GreggK2 on 01/08/2016 8:54 AM
Would you say that the board should allow someone on that the board just had to sue to get them to pay their fees? We want to have people on the board who can make a positive contribution, not someone who wants to undue everything good we managed to get done this past year.

No.

But you do have to allow them run for the position. It is up to the owners to decide who will represent them on the board. Democracy is a bitch but it is also the reason why history books do not discuss the administration of President Ralph Nader. People are pretty good at rejecting those who are totally whacko.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GreggK2 on 01/08/2016 8:54 AM
Would you say that the board should allow someone on that the board just had to sue to get them to pay their fees? We want to have people on the board who can make a positive contribution, not someone who wants to undue everything good we managed to get done this past year.

Your concerns are perhaps valid but it's not up to the board to "allow" others to be on the board or not. Sounds like you want to way overstep your authority. If they get elected next year then so be it. Get someone else to run against them if you feel that strongly about it. They would probably resign after a while anyway if they're not doing it with good intentions. And maybe they'll fall behind on their assessments again before next year's meeting rendering them ineligible to run.

I think you're getting way ahead of yourself.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 01/08/2016 12:40 PM
Posted By GreggK2 on 01/08/2016 8:54 AM
Would you say that the board should allow someone on that the board just had to sue to get them to pay their fees? We want to have people on the board who can make a positive contribution, not someone who wants to undue everything good we managed to get done this past year.

Your concerns are perhaps valid but it's not up to the board to "allow" others to be on the board or not. Sounds like you want to way overstep your authority. If they get elected next year then so be it. Get someone else to run against them if you feel that strongly about it. They would probably resign after a while anyway if they're not doing it with good intentions. And maybe they'll fall behind on their assessments again before next year's meeting rendering them ineligible to run.

I think you're getting way ahead of yourself.

Well said.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
It's called politics. You want certain people kept off the board you work to make sure they don't win an election.
You do not find a way to prevent them from running. If they desire to run you campaign and ask the owners to support those candidates you would rather have serving.

I have served on our board for 29 years. During that time we had people who needed to be removed and those who could not be allowed to ever hold a board position. You can write letters to the owners. You can send out flyers and resumes of those you support. You can remind the owners of the need to take legal action to collect dues of those now wishing to manage the property. In no case would I bring a ding dong onto the board in the hopes they either see the light or leave on their on accord. The possible disruption they might cause is not worth the risk.

In many cases loud mouths have nothing else. They make threats. They rock the boat. YOU must have a plan in place and the support of those owners needed to keep these yo-yos out. You have a year to educate the owners and make them aware of the progress you have made and the positives from which they have benefitted.

Good luck.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I agree that you're ahed of yourself, Gregg. But your current Board could try to amend your bylaws to add some qualifications that you can live with. You can, for instance, add one that a states if director becomes delinquent by more than XX days, they may no longer serve.

You also might want to add one (discussed on a different thread) prohibiting co-owners from serving simultaneously so that two deadbeats from the same household can't serve.

But this depends in part how difficult it is to amend your bylaws & whether it's worth the expense. Probably cheaper just to campaign against her. Or, if she should be elected, remember she's only one vote.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
JonD is right, it is politics, which Hunter S. Thompson defined as "the art of controlling your environment". And what's more "your environment" than your home and the community where you live?

Having said that, if you find yourself at the election and there are 3 seats up for grabs and the only 3 candidates are ding-dongs then they're in. They don't need anyone's permission to be a director and sit on the board. Rigging an election or bending over backwards to throw out ballots or invalidate proxies in an effort to keep someone you don't approve of off the board would be easily just as wrong, unethical, illegal and contemptuous as anything the yo-yos might do if they got on the board.

By all means campaign for someone else and make it clear why you feel someone else is undesirable for the position, but in the end it's not up to you.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
One important ingredient is to ALWAYS have replacements in the wings ready if needed.

You don't leave this to chance and HOPE things turn out your way. If the result is important enough to you than the effort required needs to be whatever is necessary.

Have not lost and election yet either to get someone on, get someone off, or prevent someone from holding office. In 29 years having removed board presidents, treasurer, VPs, MCs, lawyers, and service providers. Last undesirable got 3 votes. This should be a continuos process keeping the owners informed about your positives and their negatives. Time to get started.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Gregg

Typically Covenants/Bylaws are easier to change when aimed at a common enemy. As examples:

1. No one can run for office that is more than 60 days delinquent in their dues.

2. No one can run for the BOD that is involved in any current legal action with the HOA.

3. Only one owner per unit/home can be on the BOD at the same time.

Fight the common enemy versus aimed at any one person.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
It takes 51% of owners here to amend bylaws. We tried in '12, but failed. I did learn at that time that the bylaws should not only state qualifications to be a candidate, but qualifications to STAY on the Board. Thus my samples above. Another common one is an attendance requirement whereby a directors is removed if s/he misses three regular meetings in a row without Board intervention.

(yes, this doesn't help when directors NEVER miss, but are unproductive.)

I do think it's a little better to forbid co-owners--period--to seek election; we do have a handful here who own more than one condo. As discussed elsewhere, though, if yours is a community with few owners willing to serve, that restriction might be too strong.

One way to groom future directors is to have a strong committee structure as a pipeline. Our three new directors all came up thru committees and two of them learned a lot in those roles.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
An ACCURATE answer to the OP's question "What to do about bad perspective board members?":

Get them the appropriate astigmatic corrective lenses.

or

continue the talking

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