Emergent Maintenance

Started by NicoleO1 • 23 replies • 1761 views

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NicoleO1 (California)
Posts: 181

Posted:

A few days ago we had an issue with our lift that stopped working and had someone in it.

Lift broken, needs service. Only elevator in multi level complex.

There was debate amongst the baord to fix it immedialty or wait for other bids. That went wayside when it was brough to the attention of the baord 3 owners or residents are mobility challenged/ disabled and can not climb 3-4 flights of stairs.

It was a heated issue until this brough up. ONe resident could not make it to a doctors appointment, others were home bound for 9 + hours waiting for a agreement and service call,

Aft the end of the day there's was a delay in response because of the aboard disagreement until the homebnound individuals were mentioned. I know this is considered an emergency, but after along messages back and forth, one of the baord members just called the vendor and said come fix this.

If something happens and the elvevator is out and we know it its with no action to repair the HOA is held liable is it not? I had someone say they were held at home against thier will, could not leave.

Emergency meetings are allowed via email, emergent approval needs to be 100% per Davis Sterling. In the event this happens again and someone fdoesnt' just go against the grain to call a vendor who is held liable? the entire board? Or the onw who wishes to shop for a better bid on a emergent issues?

NicoleO1 (California)
Posts: 181

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NicoleO1 on 01/05/2016 12:35 PM

A few days ago we had an issue with our lift that stopped working and had someone in it.

Lift broken, needs service. Only elevator in multi level complex.

There was debate amongst the baord to fix it immedialty or wait for other bids. That went wayside when it was brough to the attention of the baord 3 owners or residents are mobility challenged/ disabled and can not climb 3-4 flights of stairs.

It was a heated issue until this brough up. ONe resident could not make it to a doctors appointment, others were home bound for 9 + hours waiting for a agreement and service call,

Aft the end of the day there's was a delay in response because of the aboard disagreement until the homebnound individuals were mentioned. I know this is considered an emergency, but after along messages back and forth, one of the baord members just called the vendor and said come fix this.

If something happens and the elvevator is out and we know it its with no action to repair the HOA is held liable is it not? I had someone say they were held at home against thier will, could not leave.

Emergency meetings are allowed via email, emergent approval needs to be 100% per Davis Sterling. In the event this happens again and someone fdoesnt' just go against the grain to call a vendor who is held liable? the entire board? Or the onw who wishes to shop for a better bid on a emergent issues?

We are all seasoned board members and this was not a welcomed question to seek a better bid or a more detailed bid while we had owners in their home stuck!

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

I'd say that the Board as a whole is liable regardless. If 100% agreement is required, then the Board needs to arrive at that 100% agreement. With an emergency issue, it needs to happen quickly and that dissenting Board Member needs to be brought into line.

Regardless though, instead of dwelling on who is or is not liable in this case and all potential future cases, you should take this as a learning experience and do better next time. Why not have a standing maintenance and repair contract with an elevator company? That way, proper maintenance is being performed on a regular schedule. And also when the elevator fails, it's not even a question about who to call.

The selected company will be decided upon by the Board based on bids that the Board receives. Any question on services and pricing will be done at this point, not when the elevator breaks and an emergency repair needs to happen.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Sounds odd to me that there was no routine maintenance contract in place already. We've got one for our common-property buildings' air conditioning systems and it boggles my mind that a place with an indispensible elevator (or "lift", if you prefer) doesn't have one.

NicoleO1 (California)
Posts: 181

Posted:

We do have a standing maintenance agreement.. And we receive and we did receive a bid for work to be done. So saying that, this is a huge concern if it happens again what is to say our owners cant' leave again because of a non elevator specialist asking for more details? that is what happened

NicoleO1 (California)
Posts: 181

Posted:

Being thankful for the one who said enough and called independently and said fix this.. But that is not how this is suppose to occur.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Because that elevator is so critical to your association, the board should be better prepared to deal with emergencies.

First, the board should select a vendor who can and will respond immediately. It sounds like they have already done this. The proper time to do this would be while the elevator is operating normally. If there are other common elements such as water heaters or central air conditioners, vendors should be selected for those items as well. BTW, a good contract should include scheduled preventative maintenance to catch problems before they inconvenience anyone. Avoid "service contracts" that require you to call the vendor for regular maintenance because six months from now no one will remember to do it.

Second, the board needs to implement a policy that allows any board member to call the vendor for emergency repairs. When the elevator is broken down is not the time for holding a meeting or trying to get a better deal from some other vendor; it is a time for someone to pick up the phone and call for help.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I'm in an elevator building too, Nicole, and we have an annual maintenance agreement and our elevators are serviced month. Doesn't yours, like ours, state the cost for emergency service calls, O.T for nights, weekends, etc.??

In other words, why weren't they called immediately ?? And don't you have a PM, as I recall? Why didn't the PM handle this? (I might be mistaken.)

Why did it take any directors at all to decide to phone your elevator maintenance company?? I'm confused. There's something important missing here.

Was the elevator occupant trapped in for 9 hours?

It's also true that if you had to make a board decision on such an urgent matter, why did not a quorum of your board gather in an emergency meeting and vote?? It's completely legal in CA.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Agree with others. Would also want to know if having regularly scheduled inspections is a requirement for insurance coverage.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

NicoleO1 (California)
Posts: 181

Posted:

Nobody was trapped in the lift for hours. They called 911. Our manager alerted us with the bid and suggested an emergency meeting! That is where this all stemmed from.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

Your manager should NOT require a BOD meeting for an emergency elevator repair.

Your manager should have merely called the pre-arranged vendor with whom the BOD/Association has an EXISTING contract.

Aaaaaah, the volunteers hard at work ...... again.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Going back to your original question, Nicole, if you'd had an in person emergency meeting, the dissenter would have been outvoted. I can't grasp that you think you would need unanimous consent at an actual sit-down 5-minute meeting. As I recall you directors all live on the premises, yes? Directors attending by phone also counts as present at HOA board meetings in CA.

Boards direct PM's not the other way around!

What is the exact wording in your contract with your elevator maintenance vendor that prevented the PM from phoning them???

Nicole, what if emergency services were needed by a resident on the upper floor during these nine hours? Of course, EMTs can & do climb stairs with emergency equipment, but that lost time could mean the difference between life & death....

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Nicole

As I understand your post, you have only one elevator. Am I correct? If so, shame on you all (you included) for not having a procedure automatically in place for this. Learn from it.

I assume some scumbag lawyer could really get his teeth into suing the HOA for this lack of response time.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

This is where you should have an elevator maintenance agreement with a company (bidded out earlier) that includes emergency service. Then when it breaks down, the Associations contact person simply calls the company for repair.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Right, Tim, as many above have said.

What I'm trying to grasp, Nicole is this: You say your have a contract for service. If so, what is this nonsense about a "bid"?

NicoleO1 (California)
Posts: 181

Posted:

According to our manager... All need to vote to take action at an emergency meeting. THat was sent to us over email when we had majority approve to move forward on this. The squeaky wheel who was asking for a more detailed bid etc.. Said NO!

Davis Sterling Act states this. It is interpreted as 100% of all board members must approve an item.
This is the stem of all the issues. Because our members are offsite for work hours we responded to this via email.

Your right, the manager should be directed. Not the other way around.. Indeed. Below is the DSA excerpt indicating what was regurged to us.
Your right at the end of the day.. We needed a repair now and not shop around. There will. Be more of discussion at our next meeting indeed.

Email. Email may be used as a method of conducting emergency meetings provided, however that all members of the board consent in writing to the action. (Civ. Code §4910(b)(2)). If an emergency meeting is conducted via email, the written consent or consents must be filed with the minutes of the board meeting. These written consents may be transmitted electronically. (Civ. Code §4910(b)(2)). As with regular meeting minutes, the minutes should reflect the action taken by the board, not a transcript of the discussion.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NicoleO1 on 01/05/2016 10:36 PM
According to our manager... All need to vote to take action at an emergency meeting. THat was sent to us over email when we had majority approve to move forward on this. The squeaky wheel who was asking for a more detailed bid etc.. Said NO!

Davis Sterling Act states this. It is interpreted as 100% of all board members must approve an item.
This is the stem of all the issues. Because our members are offsite for work hours we responded to this via email.

Your right, the manager should be directed. Not the other way around.. Indeed. Below is the DSA excerpt indicating what was regurged to us.
Your right at the end of the day.. We needed a repair now and not shop around. There will. Be more of discussion at our next meeting indeed.

Email. Email may be used as a method of conducting emergency meetings provided, however that all members of the board consent in writing to the action. (Civ. Code §4910(b)(2)). If an emergency meeting is conducted via email, the written consent or consents must be filed with the minutes of the board meeting. These written consents may be transmitted electronically. (Civ. Code §4910(b)(2)). As with regular meeting minutes, the minutes should reflect the action taken by the board, not a transcript of the discussion.

I don't get it. I'm sure you have a landscaping contract. Does your board have to meet to pre-approve each and every mowing and pruning?

Has nothing to do with D-S or personal schedules of board members. Has to do with running a business. If you have it covered in the contract, the board does not have to re-visit and pre-approve every "event" that is already covered under your contract.

Has nothing to do with shopping around. Has to do with authorizing your MC to call the elevator company not the board. Do your MC call a meeting of the board every time there is a water leak? Really now.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Nicole, you wrote: "According to our manager... All need to vote to take action at an emergency meeting." This is true IF you cannot meet in person as your citation from D-S shows.

But If you could've met by telephone conference call in an emergency mtg., you only would have needed a quorum present (by phone) and only a majority of them would have needed to vote "yes."

But NpS' questions are way more important! And I've asked you to cite the excerpt from your elevator contract about emergency maintenance. Will you do that?

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Just a guess: I'll bet they had a no-frills service contract on the elevator that provided for routine maintenance but not emergency service calls. There was probably no money in the "elevator maintenance & repair" line item of the budget beyond that service contract. Thus, the budget busting repair call needed board approval.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GenoS on 01/06/2016 12:39 PM
Just a guess: I'll bet they had a no-frills service contract on the elevator that provided for routine maintenance but not emergency service calls. There was probably no money in the "elevator maintenance & repair" line item of the budget beyond that service contract. Thus, the budget busting repair call needed board approval.

Makes sense.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Makes sense to me too, Geno. Perhaps Nicole will clear this up with verbiage from their elevator contract.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I also think they need to define a better relationship between the MC and the board. Who is the entity who has signed contract with the contractors and is responsible for contacting? Some HOA's have an arrangement with their MC's to use the MC's contractors or give them control on contacting contractors. Some HOA's that are more self efficient do the bid process, sign/contact, and then send the MC the bill to pay the contractor. When it comes to who was responsible in this situation needs fleshed out. Where is the line between MC being "carte blanche" with contractors and the board?

Seems to me, the MC contacted the board to let them know there was a problem. The board's process seems to be they have a 3 bid or other bid system prior to hiring services. They also have or need an emergency meeting process. This confusion and fear of liability issues muddled the process to get a proper response. My suggestion is like everyone else. The board needs to have set up an Emergency POC for such issues. Build it into the contract of whomever they are contracting that year. Plus make sure who makes the final decision. Does the MC notify the board then contact the contractor or does the board? Either way, it comes down to who signs off the check....

Former HOA President

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I don't think instances of MC's having their own contractors to make big fixes like elevators or roofs is very common, Melissa. Since the HOA pays for these services, it seems to me that the contract always would be between the HOA and the vendor.

When an elevator of ours stopped in the middle of the night because a jump-roping rider set off the e/quake stop, the security officer on duty called his sup who phoned the elevator vendor, who came right out & freed the guy (who was billed for the emergency call).

But you're right--Nicole's board must develop a clear-cut protocol for elevator emergencies and perhaps other emergencies, like floods from units above to units below. This protocol should NOT involve a board meeting! Either the PM has authority to act in emergencies or one officer, probably the prez, does. It's foolish to have to wait for any sort of meeting--online or in person-- to be held.

In CA, Melissa, how meetings are held is determined by state law. If the Board must decide they can meet by email, but must have full consensus of all directors, or call an emergency meeting in person or telephonically,, where just a quorum is needed & only a majority of it decides with its vote.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I only mention that MC's use and control vendors based on other posters who have mentioned it. Otherwise, my position as President I dealt directly with the vendors. I would have the board approval to do so. We usually had agreed ahead of time to price and the work to be done. However, in those times of emergencies I would act on the behalf of the HOA and then ultimately send the bill to the Accountant. Plus was very open to everyone on the situation and used existing contractors.

Former HOA President

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