💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:

We are a Board of 7, with 4 new directors including "Deb," who’s a realtor. 12/29 will be her 2nd mtg. on the Board. What concerns me is her agenda item that the prez accepted.

We're two high rises and each has a mailroom with Bulletin Boards. One in each is enclosed for HOA business. The other is open to residents to rent out parking spaces, sell furniture, etc. In addition, very nearby downtown events are posted. On a narrow strip off to one side are about 12-14 business cards for various services: jewelers; interior painters; housekeepers; electricians; dog walkers, locksmiths, personal trainers, etc.

Although there are several realtors in our 200+ condos, Deb is the only one who posts her biz cards, which always disappear after a while. Competitors? Who knows?

Our rules are quite vague on this matter, but one says advertisements can’t be distributed anywhere at our HOA. Still all of the 11 years I’ve lived here, biz cards have been posted with no complaints.

Deb’s agenda request says in part: “...as a board member I feel I’m entitled to post my business cards on the board.” she wants to know if such posting is permitted.

This sounds very self serving to me and, imo, is a poor way to begin serving her community. Am I off base to think that this not only is a very personal “problem,” it’s between her & whomever removes her card?? How is it a Board/HOA concern? Should we install cameras in the mailrooms?

More important, is there any way I can encourage her & a couple of other directors to focus more on our overall HOA instead of very small even trivial individual matters? Our tendency seems to be in the last year or so to drift away from big-picture governance.

Thanks in advance for your guidance!
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
I'd say she's welcome to pin up her card on the side board where everyone is free to post business cards. We have a board like that here, too, that's off to the side away from the official BoD bulletin board. If she wants her card in a prominent place, such as under glass where nobody can swipe it, then I would revert to the docs which say no advertising and start enforcing it.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Deb gets up during Candidate night and reads her bio from the nomination form she submitted on time to the "hundreds of residents" who attended the event.

She mentions she has been a realtor for 14 years for ABC Real Estates which specializes in "Twin, High Rise Luxury" Condo on the waterfront, and blah...blah...blah. This same information is also enclosed with the election package and ballots sent to all owners.

What's the different whether "Deb posted on the bulletin board or ran for the Board and gave a speech?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I apologize if my question was unclear. I don't care one way or the other if she posts her biz card. Whether or not she may post it isn't my question.

I'm wondering if Deb's agenda item rises to the level of appropriate board business? Why should the HOA/board be concerned if someone is removing her cards?? And why, as she stated in her request, her status as a board member matter?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Kerry,

The question is self serving. So what.

However the issue isn't between her and who is removing cards. The issue is "what is the Associations policy regarding the posting of business cards and/or other forms of advertisements"?

You already stated that the documents are vague. Therefore, someone is asking for clarification. It doesn't matter that the question was asked by a Board member or not. The question was asked and now should be dealt with.

Just keep in mind the real question/issue: Does the Association desire to allow members (not just board member, but all members and perhaps residents) post business cards in a specific location or not?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Pretty good point, Tim! Sorry I annoyed you. I don't know about VA, but self dealing is rather frowned upon in our CA BJR.

I hope I'll find the opportunity to suggest that we might frame our requests in generic ways, i.e,: what is our policy about posting advertisements, for example, business cards? Rather than about her personal business. It seems odd after having a very helpful seminar with our MC a few weeks ago who clearly promoted the "good of the HOA," over individualistic goals.

But, even if we say, since the rule is vague, everyone can post cards if they wish. who's gonna keep whomever for taking hers down. That seems to be her real beef.

Since they've been posted for 11 years, at least, it seems that we approve.

Richard, I don't see why you cannot be silent if you have nothing to offer posters. And guessing about what Deb said at Candidates Night was off-she did say she was a realtor and noted that in her Statement, but it wasn't central and she said nothing about her specialty.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Kerry,

My first impression on reading this question was that Deb wants to put her business cards in the enclosed HOA bulletin boards. Is that what she is seeking to do? The reason I ask is that it seems pointless to put on the agenda a discussion of something that Deb and others have done in the past.

BTW, her missing cards may have been taken by a competing realtor, a prospective customer, or someone who just does not like her. Whatever the reason, it is not a board problem.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 12/26/2015 6:36 PM
Pretty good point, Tim! Sorry I annoyed you. I don't know about VA, but self dealing is rather frowned upon in our CA BJR.

I hope I'll find the opportunity to suggest that we might frame our requests in generic ways, i.e,: what is our policy about posting advertisements, for example, business cards? Rather than about her personal business. It seems odd after having a very helpful seminar with our MC a few weeks ago who clearly promoted the "good of the HOA," over individualistic goals.

But, even if we say, since the rule is vague, everyone can post cards if they wish. who's gonna keep whomever for taking hers down. That seems to be her real beef.

Since they've been posted for 11 years, at least, it seems that we approve.

Richard, I don't see why you cannot be silent if you have nothing to offer posters. And guessing about what Deb said at Candidates Night was off-she did say she was a realtor and noted that in her Statement, but it wasn't central and she said nothing about her specialty.

As Tim pointed out, it was self-serving.

This sounds very self serving to me and, imo, is a poor way to begin serving her community. Am I off base to think that this not only is a very personal “problem,” it’s between her & whomever removes her card?? How is it a Board/HOA concern? Should we install cameras in the mailrooms?

How would I know what "Deb" said, I wasn't there. The comment was what is the difference if it was on a candidate form or a business card.

Many associations throughout the U.S. distribute monthly/quarterly newsletters which allow advertising by its members, either free or for a fee. I know some that advertise are on the Boards they serve.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 12/26/2015 6:36 PM

Pretty good point, Tim! Sorry I annoyed you.

I'm not annoyed.
If I gave that impression, it wasn't one I was trying to give.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Kerry

She, like anyone, else is free to post her cards. The fact that someone is removing her cards is not a BOD issue.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I agree with Larry & JonC. I don't really see it as a board or HOA problem. I don't think, Larry, that she wants her cards behind the locked glass, but I may be wrong!

I'm thinking she wants a sign on the residents board that says "Please do Not Remove" or some such. There are other far more important items on our 12/29 agenda that I need to speak to, so I'll probably keep my mouth shut.

My main worry is that the other 3 new directors will think that this type of personal request is typical or should be typical.

We've been approached, Richard, to permit advertising in our monthly News, but have declined. I think a board approving one of its directors to advertise in its newsletter is a bad policy as it appears there's favoritism or cronyism on the board. Our News goes to 150 of our 200+ Owners, and another 40 residents pick them up in our mailrooms. To let, for instance, Deb advertise in it would not be good for the Board's rep.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Kerry

I would permit owners advertising in an in-house publication (web site, newsletters, etc.) but not a BOD Member. Sometimes with the title/responsibility comes a different set of rules.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 12/26/2015 1:53 PM
Deb’s agenda request says in part: “...as a board member I feel I’m entitled to post my business cards on the board.” she wants to know if such posting is permitted.

We have around half a dozen realtors in the community - one on our board.

Once we had 2 on our board at same time - Got a creepy feeling when MC was being chosen that the 2 of them were setting things up to get and share sales/listing leads from their preferred MC. Clear violation of fiduciary responsibility IMO.

We're now down to 1 realtor on the board. He hands out business cards whenever he meets a homeowner he doesn't know - even when he's conducting HOA business. He sends letters when he learns that someone in the community dies, goes to funerals, sends a letter to family members stating that he is not only a realtor but is also a board member. He intimates that he will do better for them as a realtor because he is on the board.

My attitude is that he should not be in a better position than any other realtor who lives here just because he's on the board. Recently, an owner died. My board member realtor told me that the deceased had wanted him to be the listing agent. When someone stopped me on the street to inquire about homes for sale, I conveyed the information to family members without notifying my realtor board member. The house was sold privately. Things got a bit strained between that board member and me.

Kerry, I think it's always good to have these policy discussions, especially when the composition of the board changes significantly as in your case.

IMO, the posting of business cards on the board is only a small part of the bigger issue - Fiduciary means putting the interests of the community above your own. I suggest asking your new member how she thinks she will be perceived if she promotes (or attempts to enforce) recognition of her personal business?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
NpS wrote: "Fiduciary means putting the interests of the community above your own. I suggest asking your new member how she thinks she will be perceived if she promotes (or attempts to enforce) recognition of her personal business?"

I guess I'll give that a try as that is a crucial point. She's out of town till shortly before the mtg. tomorrow, but I think I'll contact her. Your own situation is what I'd hope to avoid in our HOA. I know some bylaws forbid realtors form soliciting listings in the HOA while they serve on the Board, but ours isn't one of them.

Deb just closed escrow on her listing of another director and while that was still in the works last month, Deb voted with "Sue" on every topic. Sue's moved into her second condo, which I'm sure Deb would also like to list.

Thanks for your sound advice, NpS!
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 12/28/2015 10:53 AM
Deb just closed escrow on her listing of another director and while that was still in the works last month, Deb voted with "Sue" on every topic.

That's the stuff that I find really disturbing. Not enough to call her on it. But surely enough to open a dialog.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm sure everyone's been holding their breath to see how this turned out!

"Deb" presented her agenda item as if it weren't about her realtor biz cards being removed from the unenclosed bulletin boards in our 2 mail rooms. She said it was about the need for a clear policy about the general topic: are ads permitted given our vague rules. So the Board talked about the rule and decided it wasn't vague after all; that it didn't really refer to these bulletin boards. What do to?

She finally copped to it being really about her problem. One solution could be to lock the bulletin boards, but that makes it too inconvenient for everyone else who doesn't want to wait for staff to unlock one for them. All just for Deb.... another was to get rid of both bulletin boards. No! Too useful in other ways.

Finally and it actually was me. Let's post a sign at the top of each saying "PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE NOTICES!" We passed it by consensus tho' Deb wasn't entirely thrilled with the outcome.

Took 10 minutes....
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 12/26/2015 3:12 PM
Kerry,

The question is self serving. So what.

However the issue isn't between her and who is removing cards. The issue is "what is the Associations policy regarding the posting of business cards and/or other forms of advertisements"?

You already stated that the documents are vague. Therefore, someone is asking for clarification. It doesn't matter that the question was asked by a Board member or not. The question was asked and now should be dealt with.

Just keep in mind the real question/issue: Does the Association desire to allow members (not just board member, but all members and perhaps residents) post business cards in a specific location or not?

Right Tim, she is only asking for clarifications if I read your post correctly. The terms conflict of interest is a widely overused term, and it sounds like it is here as well. From her personal experience of living in the HOA, she has asked for it to be put on the agenda. How is her following due process a conflict of interest?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I don't see "conflict of interest," Crystal. But there definitely were some lifted eyebrows from h'owners in the room when Deb finally revealed her disappearing biz cards was the real reason she was concerned.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here