💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

MichelleM4 (Michigan)
Posts: 19
Posted:
We have a very small assocation - 12 homes on a court. Four of the homes are located on the "circle", the remaining 8 on the street leading to the circle. Per the master deed, there are 3 common elements: the circle, a detention pond located between 2 homes on the circle, and a berm the runs behind 2 homes on the circle (and borders a road). The BOD is comprised of 4 members from homes who reside along the street. The only common element regularly maintained is the circle (it is cut weekly and sometime watered - usually upon request.) When those on the circle ask that the common elements be maintained (e.g. detention pond cleaned, berm watered / weeded / cut), they are told by the BOD "it doesn't bother me or I don't see it," so consequently, they go unmaintained. The two homes on the berm went to the City many years ago and had the City issue a letter stating that the berm was HOA common element property and the HOA needed to maintain. The 8 homes along the street have ignored this letter and claim it is invalid. Consequently, the two homeowners let the berm go uncut and let the weeds go. I should also point out that the sprinklers on the berm are piped to the same set of sprinklers that water the circle. (So, I'm not sure how you claim the berm is the homeowner's responsibility.)

I am one of the 4 homes on the circle, yet do not border any of the common elements. However, I feel that because the Master Deed calls out the common elements, it is our obligation to maintain them. When the homes near the common elements put forth a vote, they can never win - simply because the majority (8 homes) live along the street and as mentioned before, do not believe in maintaining the common elements.

The four homes have also put forth their names to get onto the BoD to try to correct the issue, but again, can never get a majority of the vote (because we are only 4 homes). Many years ago, we had 2 of BOD members, but when the other 8 homes say that we were going to begin to charge for berm maintenance, they quickly submitted other names and voted our people out. This has been ongoing for 6 years now. We feel helpless and strong-armed because the board is doing what they please, and what is in their best interest. They completely ignore the by-laws, unless they support their viewpoint. When we try to use the by-laws to support our views, we are simply ignored or talked over.

Do you have any suggestions on how we can go about solving this issue?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Suggest contacting the health dept. if the grass is too high and the Board won't listen.

Suggest contacting the State/County/City storm water management department (similar to EPA at the state level) and see if they will send a warning letter.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Michelle

They are retention ponds where rain water drains to via storm drains and natural drainage. They are mandated by the local authorities and deeded to the association. As part of the deed, the association is obligated to maintain them and keep them in working order. Maintenance and "looks" can be two different things, but I suggest you start with the local controlling authority.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Michelle,

You have a classic situation of the majority dumping on the minority.

My recommendation is that the four of you on the circle retain an attorney to advise you. The attorney will need to see all your governing documents as a start. The letter from the city would be most helpful as would any meeting minutes or other official HOA documents evincing a deliberate plan to ignore maintenance of the common elements.

If it was my call, I would start by having the lawyer send each of the other eight owners a demand letter and a threat to sue. Unless these people are really stupid, such a letter will get them to sit up and take notice. Once they find out how much it will cost to defend against such a lawsuit they may take their responsibilities a little more seriously.

BTW, since this is a breach-of-contract issue, homeowner's insurance and HOA insurance will not cover the costs to defend; each owner will be on his own.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
What catapults a dispute such as MichelleM4's from the run-of-the-mill "board not following the documents" problem into the more general "breach of contract" arena? Is this a nuanced and subtle distinction or do these specific facts trigger the transition to an action for breach of contract? How do the individual owners find themselves on the hook for this? Boards regularly do things they shouldn't or don't do things they should. I'm really curious about what makes this case different, Larry, if you'd kindly elaborate a bit. And what would the plaintiffs sue for, an injunction to force the association to mow the berm once a week?

(I will reluctantly withold my newly discovered insight about how the owners would only be suing themselves and that they should look to their documents for the answers they seek since all the answers are there and how lawyers will only end up costing everyone money that doesn't really need to be spent.)
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Geno,

I know that you were directing questions at Larry.
I'd like to provide my take on it (based on Larry's earlier posting)

Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 12/21/2015 2:50 AM

What catapults a dispute such as MichelleM4's from the run-of-the-mill "board not following the documents" problem into the more general "breach of contract" arena?

Because the main purpose of an Association is to maintain the common area/elements.

Refusal (not deferment or a question of who's responsibility it is, but actual refusal) to maintain a section of common area, even after it was determined that the area in question is common area and is indeed the Associations responsibility to maintain, would be considered a breach of contract (vs. a bad decision).

Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 12/21/2015 2:50 AM

Is this a nuanced and subtle distinction or do these specific facts trigger the transition to an action for breach of contract?

In my opinion, it's the specific facts of this issue.

Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 12/21/2015 2:50 AM

How do the individual owners find themselves on the hook for this?

D&O insurance typically has a clause that excludes any coverage when the board is knowingly in violation.

Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 12/21/2015 2:50 AM

And what would the plaintiffs sue for, an injunction to force the association to mow the berm once a week?

Basically, yes.

The injunction would be to properly maintain the berm and storm water detention pond. If the berm is part of storm water management, there are likely guideline or regulations on the height grass must be maintained.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Tim,

Thanks for your response.

The facts appear to be that a majority of owners have chosen to ignore the mandates of their CC&R's by foisting maintenance of the common areas off onto the shoulders of those owners whose properties abut the common areas. (I say "appear" because I am not familiar with the OP's CC&R's.) The board has abused its discretion by relieving some members of the burden of maintaining the common areas while requiring other members to cover the expense themselves.

I also suggested having the lawyer send demand letters to each of the majority owners because they are apparently the ones who control the board and its policies and they each derive an economic benefit from the current setup. Basically, it gets down to either start paying for maintenance or pay your attorney, pay my attorney, pay the court, and then start paying for maintenance. Seems like an easy choice but some people like to do things the hard way.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 12/21/2015 7:00 AM
Tim,

Thanks for your response.

The facts appear to be that a majority of owners have chosen to ignore the mandates of their CC&R's by foisting maintenance of the common areas off onto the shoulders of those owners whose properties abut the common areas. (I say "appear" because I am not familiar with the OP's CC&R's.) The board has abused its discretion by relieving some members of the burden of maintaining the common areas while requiring other members to cover the expense themselves.

I also suggested having the lawyer send demand letters to each of the majority owners because they are apparently the ones who control the board and its policies and they each derive an economic benefit from the current setup. Basically, it gets down to either start paying for maintenance or pay your attorney, pay my attorney, pay the court, and then start paying for maintenance. Seems like an easy choice but some people like to do things the hard way.

I do agree that it's an economic decision. It may not be worth the fight for either group. IMO,what's missing in this discussion is how much it actually costs to maintain the area, or alternatively, is someone willing to take care of it even though the association should.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichelleM4 on 12/20/2015 7:37 AM
We have a very small assocation - 12 homes on a court. . . . . . I feel that because the Master Deed calls out the common elements, it is our obligation to maintain them. . . . can never get a majority of the vote . This has been ongoing for 6 years now. . . . They completely ignore the by-laws, unless they support their viewpoint. When we try to use the by-laws to support our views, we are simply ignored or talked over.
Do you have any suggestions on how can go about solving this issue?

Michelle M4 Michigan
If not done already you might find out which of Michigan's condo or platted subdivision laws apply to your community. Then look at the remedies available in applicable Michigan law if you want to do anything other than persuading the majority.

Whatever the factuals & whichever venue, you & the 3 inner court owners would also bear the obligation to prove whatever shortfall you claim exists in how the berm & pond are/are not being maintained to whatever standard you can prove is in your Declaration/governance documents /CCRs etc.

Some starters ? :

The Michigan Community Association Law Blog : Information on Condominium Associations and Homeowner Associations (HOA's) from the Michigan Condo Lawyers
http://micondolaw.com/

“Comparison between Michigan Site Condominiums and Platted Subdivisions (Homeowner Associations)”
http://micondolaw.com/michigan-hoa-law/comparison-between-michigan-site-condominiums-and-platted-subdivisions-homeowner-associations/
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 12/21/2015 3:28 AM
Geno,

I know that you were directing questions at Larry.
I'd like to provide my take on it (based on Larry's earlier posting)

Absolutely, Tim, the more points of view the better.

Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 12/21/2015 7:00 AM
The facts appear to be that a majority of owners have chosen to ignore the mandates of their CC&R's by foisting maintenance of the common areas off onto the shoulders of those owners whose properties abut the common areas. (I say "appear" because I am not familiar with the OP's CC&R's.) The board has abused its discretion by relieving some members of the burden of maintaining the common areas while requiring other members to cover the expense themselves.

Thanks, Larry. It's becoming more clear to me now.

Michelle's predicament reminds me of a situation here years ago where the developer neglected to maintain the stormwater management pond (i.e. "the lake"). A couple of owners contacted the water management district with complaints and they forced the developer to comply with the maintenance obligations. Michelle's situation is different but in both cases the duty to maintain the stormwater system is pretty clear cut.
MichelleM4 (Michigan)
Posts: 19
Posted:
Thank you all for your valuable suggestions. My intention was to present the facts. Larry was able to read between the lines and pointed out that there is a large amount of personal bias in the decisions that are being made and that the majority is dumping on the minority. The 8 homeowners along the street are notoriously cheap, therefore, maintaining common elements that do not touch their property is not something they will even consider. They have been successful in holding onto the BoD seats for many years now, which gives them the power to make decisions which benefit their interests (even if they go against by-laws).

For nearly 10 years now, the 4 homeowners have tried to be neighborly to the others - using logic and the by-laws in an attempt to get the board to follow the rules. The homes that border the common elements have looked into maintenance, but at a cost of $1K just to clean up the existing areas, they are unwilling to foot the bill (understandably), for something that should be a shared expense.

We were trying to avoid hiring an attorney (because it will definitely deepen the tension we already have), but I feel that may be our only choice. As others have suggested, I will first start with the City, and see if they are able to settle this. If not, we have no choice but to hire an attorney. Such a shame.

Thanks again for your helpful suggestions.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
.....and that the majority is dumping on the minority. .....


This is typical for ANY Democracy.

That is why T. Jefferson said:

".... I give you the Republic. Pray that you may keep her. ...."

Your 'Constitution' is your Covenants and Restrictions and/or your Bylaws.

You WILL need an attorney who is versed in BOTH contract and real estate law.

ps. The Republic of the USA became the USA in the '20s when an amendment was passed to DIRECTLY elect senators by direct popular vote (they were previously appointed/elected by the state's representatives)

LOOK IT UP FOR YOURSELF

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here