The Problem With HOAs

I wouldn't go that far but I am sure many here speak from experience being a board member and I am sure they have had their fair share of people coming to this site with problems that were easy if the person simply read and understood their property and documentation.

I read all my "governing documents" when I first came to this site and there were many who sort of assumed I didn't get the big picture. So Florida-knowledgeable folks did point me in some right directions to further research and I updated along the way (which I think helps and that many posters fail to do so the same old conclusions remain).

I continue to post because I do have a different perspective and I have been dealing with some annoying and weird Florida-specific HOA stuff that I believe will outweigh the non helpful stuff and hope any Florida board members reading this make the right decisions going forward.

I don't agree with your assessment Walter. I think a lot of people come here to this site to either ask for advice or offer advice. A lot of the advice is good. I know I have learned a lot in the year or so I have been on this forum. Some people do come here with a perceived way a HOA should act or perform. They are disappointed that their specific question is not answered to their satisfaction or their motives are questioned (much like yours have been). I would venture that the vast majority do in fact come here with true problems and come away from the experience with sound advice on how to proceed.

I am sorry you feel the way you do.

The biggest problem I see is people not reading or understanding the governing documents when buying.

Another big problem is thinking that what goes on in the community is some one else's problem do deal with.

Board members are typically VOLUNTEER members of the HOA and do NOT get paid. There is no profit except knowing you are a participant in your conditions of living. Not a backseat driver in life...

A HOA is a "Sales tool". It was created by developers who wanted to sell their property. The concept is that they give the owners the power to rule amongst themselves. Which is done by a committee (Board) and the consent of the majority of owners. Don't like a rule, then get a group together and change it. The power is within the people.

A HOA is NOT formed to maintain, increase, or make home values. It is for making sure the homes stay ATTRACTIVE to potential homebuyers. Meaning that having certain regulations/rules enforced keeps the area looking "cookie cutter" for buyers to want to buy. That in turn will effect home values by having homes sales maintained at a level that owners will get value out of during their sales.

If you can't put your HOA into perspective, then it is YOU that has the wrong perspective. A HOA is NOT a "They/Them" it is "YOU and your neighbors". Your HOA is funded by it's members FOR it's members. So if you want to make changes, it is up to you to make the effort and follow the established rules on how to do so. Looking for court assistance just raises the expenses for everyone...

Which part? I know people have disagreed with the second and third paragraphs and that's fine, but I agree with the first and third. Board members don't fall out of the sky, they are people who volunteer for the job. That doesn't guarantee they'll do it perfectly - I've heard it said that it takes at least for some people to get a grip of what's going on before they can begin to make a contribution. If you don't like how they do the job, replace them with people who will. Even if those people know what they're doing, that doesn't mean the homeowners can simply go about their business.

It's like your church council, state legislature or any other group of people - some know what they're doing, some act with integrity and others.....not so much. The problem is that people don't always want to admit they're in over their head and refuse to learn. Others go on a massive power trip and cause a lot of damage before people finally wake up and say enough! I know my HOA isn't perfect, but neither am I, so I may as well keep an eye on them - and do my part by being a good neighbor and paying my assessments in full and on time. If the Board does something I disagree with, I tell them and offer a suggestion. They may not accept it, but if it's something I care about, I'll keep at it. It's my house and the most valuable thing I own - if I don't look after it, who else will?

The problem with HOA living is too many people wait around expecting someone else to do the hard work for them. If you own a home, it's ultimately your responsibility to make it what you want. Hopefully, you live among people who are willing to do their part, but if you find yourself in a HOA where no one gives a damn, you have three choices - live with it, move or get up and do what you can to change things. But sometimes, the answer will be no. Sometimes, shit happens and it's not necessarily anyone's fault, that's just life. The sun doesn't rise and set on your ass - stop whining already!

If you're reading this Walt, why are you here? Really? You say you want advice or suggestions, but got mad because people didn't tell you what you wanted to here. This isn't a law library - if you want case law, go to a law school and do the work. If you don't know how, ask or get a lawyer or paralegal to do it for you - yes, you have to spend some money. If you came here to vent, that's ok - sometimes you just have to get it off your chest. But for heaven's sake, be honest as to what you want so no one wastes his/her time. - if not with total strangers.

To be blunt, it may be the time has come for you to sell your home and move to a non HOA community so you can live however you want. And that's ok too - HOA living isn't for everyone. I can't speak for everyone here, but if you ask me for suggestions, I'll give them to you - it's up to you to take it or not, and even then just because I or anyone on this site makes a suggestion doesn't necessarily mean it'll work for your community.

In my neighborhood it is an us vs. them.

In neighborhood 1, a neighboring subdivision (not mine) rewrote my covenants with a simple majority support and demanded mandatory assessments, no vote, and a theat of legal action.

In neighborhood 2, the neighborhood granted themselves mandatory membership with less than the required number of votes specified in their documents (they didn't even hit 100% for such a change) and then ignoring the law they continued to threaten enforcement and place liens and forclose on homeowners who were not doing anything wrong.

In both situations the boards were notified and there was involvement from homeowners but the boards decided they wanted to do things their way. In both situations I refused to let them do what they wanted and fought, with the second still ongoing. Sounds very much like an us vs them.

And if I were to buy into their HOA and try to change from within I would open myself up to greater liability. I am better sitting outside the HOA than paying it to a corporation of voluntwere who don't understand the law.

I would also say that the fact that HOAS are run by volunteers makes the matter even worse. We shouldn't give them a pass and say "oh well, if they suck we should get more involved." In a normal world, if a corporation sucks it goes out of business - not continually leech money off its subjects and break the law because of ignorance.

Hi WalterM3....let me be clear.

- i am a 5 year term Board member (now Treasurer) and volunteer. I love our HOA community and all it stands for. It fits my family's livestyle perfectly.

- i came to this website for advice, brain-storming and consideration - and that is what i have received. I have not been inundated with lies, nonsense, and childish snot-nosed criticism of the type i came here for help in dealing with.

- i have been welcomed here and have already had much discussion about areas of importance to me and my community

Sure am looking forward to more participation here....thanks!

oljim, in texas

Exactly.

"The Lie: It’s a thankless job

That is a line that every board has used at one time or another. Often times it is true that some board members are under appreciated for the good they do. But if this really were such a miserable undertaking than why is it that some board members keep coming back again, and again, and again?

The truth is that, for some people, being a board member is a very satisfying position with a number of rewards and perks. The types of people that are attracted to, and truly enjoy, these volunteer positions, too often, turn out to be the neighborhood authoritarians, the control freaks; every neighborhood has them. Abrasive and or adversarial personality traits are not uncommon. These people are the lynchpin of the HOA system; management companies and association attorneys depend upon their willingness to engage in conflicts with homeowners to generate a steady flow of income. And, backed up as they are by an institution that would make any third world totalitarian dictator emerald green with envy, they generally prove to be quite up to the task."

http://www.thehoaprimer.org/commonlies.htm

Walt

Walter,

It's not a fun job to serve on the Board or as an Officer of the Association.
Occasionally, we do get thanks and it's greatly appreciated when received (typically, just a hand written note included with the assessment payment). However, in general it is a thankless job and only those who have served or are currently serving truly understand that.

As I said, I don't like the job. However, my military training kicks in which instilled in me that even if you don't like the job, you do it to the best of your ability and do what you can to make it easier for the next person to do. To that end, I spend 20+ hours a month serving as Treasurer, Maintenance Officer, website administrator and Director. I listen to my wife complain about the amount of time I'm spending. I deal with individuals who can't make checks out correctly or pay on time. I tend to be the one who does the research on laws and propose document changes to keep in compliance. I would love to simply not serve anymore.

However, I spent 10 years not serving. During that time, those who were serving (and tried their best) didn't take the time to learn when the laws changed. Didn't take the time to perform a Reserve Study. Did what they could to keep assessments low (resulting in higher assessments in the future).

Therefore, I still serve out of fear of what will happen when I no longer serve and others, who may or may not take the time to do the job properly, have the decision authority to decide how Association funds will be spent and what laws or governing documents will be complied with. Hopefully, if I serve long enough, things will continue as they are now set up (because that's the way we always did it).

One of the main problems in not serving is you will get "flakes" like Walter serving. Prevent the "off the wallers" by serving.

I like your attitude, Ol'Jim, and it fe tis my own pretty well in that I really enjoy working to serve my community and have, as Jim puts it, experience a great deal of persona growth.

But there's also a touch of Tim & JohnC in my desire to continue. We sure have had our share of lazy and/or self interested directors. So I feel I must c keep serving to protect all of the positive changes that have occurred in my HOA.

I had raised many issues with my neighborhood. I believe in the rule of law. My property was purchased in a voluntary community in which I was involved in. Some wanted to take it mandatory, pushed their way, and then fought any who disagreed.

I have a good grasp of the history of my neighborhood, the law, and corporate operations. I have been asked by many to run but I refuse because I understand the liabilities and do not want to open up my family to that risk. I do not want to chance thousands in potential legal costs for what is essentially a social club. I still remain active in my community.

I remember trying to make a change from within. The board refused to accept any outside voices because they wanted to continue doing their agenda and when finances got tough the board refused to cut their pet projects making them more invested in their mandatory conversion - they now depended on the increased assessments to operatr.

I do understand that it would be a completely different story for mandatory associations or condominiums.