Board Members talking directly to tenant on violation

Started by MaureenM1 • 27 replies • 1837 views

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MaureenM1 (PA)
Posts: 344

Posted:

We have tenants of a unit violating our parking rules on a daily basis. Our MC has sent several letter and fines to the landlord with no results. One of the board members suggested we speak directly to the tenants? I am not sure if we should be going that route. I suggested a letter to the landlord and copying the tenants.

Thoughts??

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

The tenant is NOT a member of the HOA. Their landlord is. It is the landlord/member who is responsible. If they are not responding then time to find out why? Is it the wrong address? Are they refusing? Does your HOA not have the power to enforce fines? Could your rules be stronger to include towing?

In the end, the issue will always go back to the member NOT the tenant. Keep in mind, there are Tenant laws protecting them from being removed by the owner. So you don't know if the owner is trying to evict them or not. Which can take almost a year to do in some cases. Plus the rental agreement most likely doesn't require the tenant to follow the HOA rules. Which ties the owner's hands from taking certain actions as well.

You may suggest that the HOA request that owners who choose to rent to put in their rental agreements to obey the HOA rules. They don't have to obey the HOA since they are NOT member. However, what it does do is allow owners who face damages done by their tenants for breaking the rules the ability to evict based on those violations.

Former HOA President

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Sounds like you're on the Board, yes?

Are you saying, Maureen, that the unit owner is ignoring the warning letters & fines? Have you called the Owner to a hearing to meet with her/him face to face? Have you removed common area privileges from the Owner (thus tenant) if your docs permit it and you have some privileges worth withdrawing?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Oh, your question: I see no harm in informing the tenant. In fact, if you ARE able remove privileges, the tenant might be very interested! What concerns you about informing the tenant?

IMO, all those letters your PM sent to the Owner should be copied to the tenant to get their attention. It is, of course, the Owner who is ultimately responsible, but what you want to do is solve the problem.

Is the tenant in violation for parking in common area spots? If so, you might be able to have him towed IF your HOA has the proper signs posted warning of that possibility.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaureenM1 on 12/13/2015 6:49 AM
One of the board members suggested we speak directly to the tenants.

Why is this a bad idea? The tenant is the one causing trouble. Maybe he does not know he is doing so and has never been so informed. His landlord does not sound like someone who is going to make him aware. Even if the tenant is a total jerk and slams the door in your face you would be no worse off than you are now.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

I believe in trying to resolve the issue at the lowest level possible.

If it can be resolved with the tenants directly, why not?

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Isn't there a provision in your docs that requires tenants to abide by your rules? Why shouldn't the responsible tenants be notified directly of their violation if the owner is not responsive?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

MaureenM1 (PA)
Posts: 344

Posted:

We asked the board member NOT to speak to the tenants directly and that we would have our management company send a letter to the landlord and copy the tenant. I just happened to be closing my window and saw this board member talking to the young man of the unit and pointing to areas where there is parking. Five minutes later the van was moved.

What do you do with a board member that does not listen to the majority of the board?? and goes and speaks with the tenant after we were against it (we emailed each other today).

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

You pass a unanimous (less 'him') resolution removing said director for cause.

Yes, the BOD may, under most state's corporate law, but only for 'provable' cause.

Then give 'him' a second chance.

Then, when 'he' screws up again, drop the hammer.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

ps.

however

'he' has freedom of speech

you had best be able to PROVE the topic of conversation in question

OR

since the problem was solved

FUH-GED-'BOUT-IT

MaureenM1 (PA)
Posts: 344

Posted:

the problem is NOT solved. These same tenants take up five to six parking spots per day, have a unregistered vehicle on their driveway (should be in garage) and do maintenance of their vehicles on common property (All against the CCR's and Bylaws).

So one problem is solved parking in front of unit!!!

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaureenM1 on 12/13/2015 1:05 PM
What do you do with a board member that does not listen to the majority of the board?? and goes and speaks with the tenant after we were against it (we emailed each other today).

You have no control over what other board members do on their own. You can only control what the association does.

Would you be happy if the tenant moved his van back to where it was?

Why are you so upset over this? You and a majority of the board wishes to continue a course of indirect non-action that has - quite predictably - yielded no noticeable results; that is, the problem persists. One member suggests taking a direct approach, he does it, and it results in a small improvement. The fact is that your service on the board appears to be ineffective, at best, and perhaps it is time for you and the majority of your board to remove yourselves from positions that is beyond your abilities to perform.

MaureenM1 (PA)
Posts: 344

Posted:

I would LOVE to remove myself and other board members from the board but there are no other residents that want to do the THANKLESS JOB!!!

The only reason why this particular board member CARES is because he has five vehicles and parks in the street, etc. and feels he is untouchable because he is a board member. He is self serving, so unless you know all the facts, I wouldn't be so fast to judge!!

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 12/13/2015 7:02 AM
The tenant is NOT a member of the HOA. Their landlord is. It is the landlord/member who is responsible. If they are not responding then time to find out why? Is it the wrong address? Are they refusing? Does your HOA not have the power to enforce fines? Could your rules be stronger to include towing?

In the end, the issue will always go back to the member NOT the tenant. Keep in mind, there are Tenant laws protecting them from being removed by the owner. So you don't know if the owner is trying to evict them or not. Which can take almost a year to do in some cases. Plus the rental agreement most likely doesn't require the tenant to follow the HOA rules. Which ties the owner's hands from taking certain actions as well.

You may suggest that the HOA request that owners who choose to rent to put in their rental agreements to obey the HOA rules. They don't have to obey the HOA since they are NOT member. However, what it does do is allow owners who face damages done by their tenants for breaking the rules the ability to evict based on those violations.

Our documents require a clause in any lease agreement that insists the renter follow are rules and regulations current and future of the Association. I am so glad that this requirement is in our documents. If the renter does not follow the rules, the lease is considered broken.

MaureenM1 (PA)
Posts: 344

Posted:

Our Association has the tenants sign for the rules & regulations as well.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Please refer t my relies a hove and respond.

Once again are you saying that the Owner has actually gotten a letter from the PM stating the Board has fined him/her for violating your rules?? Have you actually levied the fine(s)??

These parking violations, it seems, are your major issue.

Your minor issue: Board members not complying with Board decisions is a whole different matter. You can censor him,; you can put a note in executive session meeting minutes that he must refrain from opposing Board decisions, etc

How many units are you ?How many directors?

PitA, tho' usually is correct, is wrong: generally a directors only can be removed by a vote of the h'owners. But, again, that is NOT your major problem.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

I bow to your knowledge, Kerry.

In SC corporate law, however, a director may be removed by the other directors 'for cause'.

'Cause' would include willful violation of corporate law and provable malfeasance.

Making it stick, however, would be cost prohibitive for the typical volunteer BOD.

MERRY CHRIST MASS

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

And I bow to your knowledge, PitA of SC Corp. law, But neither of us know PA laws in this regard.

I also still maintain that the directors disregard for his/her fellow directors' decisions is wrong, the parking issue is much more serious!

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Maureen

So I did look up PA Condo law and there is nothing in regards to removal of directors by the Board or members, so it would then fall to the governing docs.

I reviewed three HOA's in PA and none would allow removal by the Board, except under certain circumstances, felon, missed 3 consecutive meetings, unsound mind, etc, BUT those were spelled out in the Bylaws. So, Members would be the ones removing elected directors. BUT, what if they were appointed. There are some places where IF the Board hired you, they can fire you, seems only fair.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaureenM1 on 12/13/2015 2:06 PM
I would LOVE to remove myself and other board members from the board but there are no other residents that want to do the THANKLESS JOB!!!

The only reason why this particular board member CARES is because he has five vehicles and parks in the street, etc. and feels he is untouchable because he is a board member. He is self serving, so unless you know all the facts, I wouldn't be so fast to judge!!

So Larry make great suggestions that I agree with, and then you snap at him because he doesn't know all the facts, (which were NEVER explained). Excuse, I am no mind reader and neither is Larry, I presume.

No Board member is untouchable, no matter what they think, WELL, unless they control a majority of the votes.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 12/13/2015 10:07 PM
I reviewed three HOA's in PA and none would allow removal by the Board, except under certain circumstances, felon, missed 3 consecutive meetings, unsound mind, etc, BUT those were spelled out in the Bylaws. So, Members would be the ones removing elected directors. BUT, what if they were appointed. There are some places where IF the Board hired you, they can fire you, seems only fair.

Under current PA statute, removal of director by board or by membership is allowed - but must be laid out in bylaws. However, if HOA pre-dated the statute, this rule is not retroactive.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NpS on 12/13/2015 10:47 PM

Under current PA statute, removal of director by board or by membership is allowed - but must be laid out in bylaws. However, if HOA pre-dated the statute, this rule is not retroactive.

§ 5726 of PA Corporation Code

MaureenM1 (PA)
Posts: 344

Posted:

yes, the owner received 6 letters and fines. He pays the fines, but the Board does not believe he informs his tenants because they are not correcting their parking habits. I instructed our MC to send another letter to the homeowner and copy the tenant. In addition to send a copy of our rules and regulations to the tenants in that unit.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

so, get a court order

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 12/13/2015 11:20 PM

Posted By NpS on 12/13/2015 10:47 PM

Under current PA statute, removal of director by board or by membership is allowed - but must be laid out in bylaws. However, if HOA pre-dated the statute, this rule is not retroactive.

§ 5726 of PA Corporation Code

Real Estate Statute - 68 PA C.S. 3306a3 (Condo) and 5306a3 (HOA)

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

In our Bylaws those that were elected a BOD Member via a general owner election can be removed only by a general owner election. Those that were appointed to the BOD by the BOD, may be removed by the BOD. I also believe anyone on the BOD can be removed via a general owner election.

We do have some stuff about missing 3 meetings without an excuse, etc.

I personally believe the owner and the renter should both be notified of the violation in writing. Now if a BOD member cares to deliver the letter to the renter and explain it, I have no problem. Feel free to do so. If the violation is not cleared then proceed as you would but against the owner.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I think you're right s to send the tenant the rules & regs & copies of the letters you've sent to the Owner

But I''m still curious: do your docs permit the Board to remove common area privileges for everyone in the unit?

And...How many homes in your HOA, Maureen? How many on the Board?

An, finally, why hasn't the board sent a letter to the fellow board member about his parking violations?

MikeM25 (Ohio)
Posts: 10

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaureenM1 on 12/14/2015 4:00 AM
yes, the owner received 6 letters and fines. He pays the fines, but the Board does not believe he informs his tenants because they are not correcting their parking habits. I instructed our MC to send another letter to the homeowner and copy the tenant. In addition to send a copy of our rules and regulations to the tenants in that unit.

How much is the fine? The board can authorize a scaled fine structure for repeated violations. Basically make it large enough eventually that he wont pay, then start lien proceedings.

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