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LauraT (Florida)
Posts: 15
Posted:
We are having issues keeping our holiday lighting working. The GFCIs keep tripping. GFCI is required by code. I am wondering if anyone had the same issue and found a solution.

LauraT (Florida)
Posts: 15
Posted:
Does anyone have a configuration of holiday lighting that works with GFCI?
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
We have two GFCI outdoor outlets that hadn't been used in a couple of years, they had both gone bad and had to be replaced, so that's one possibility. If the GFCI is working correctly and still tripping, then you have a ground fault in the load you're plugging in, and the GFCI is doing its job. Either way, your best best is probably to contact an electrician, since the purpose of the GFCI is to keep people from getting electrocuted.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LauraT on 12/12/2015 6:58 PM
Does anyone have a configuration of holiday lighting that works with GFCI?

We use standard extension cords and holiday lights, nothing unusual. As long as your light, cords, etc. are in good shape, they should work, assuming your GFCI outlet isn't bad. If the lights or cords are worn and/or damaged, then they should be tripping the GFCI.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
You can buy a tester to see if you have a bad GFI circuit. Not expensive and good to have one. Just plugs in and will trip it to verify it works right. Otherwise it could be tripping because of bad wiring, water in the area, or overloading. A tripping GFI is nothing to play with. It is failing for a reason. Which is for your safety. (I do have a degree in Electricity).

Former HOA President
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Sounds like faulty wiring. There's either a short or water is getting in somewhere. You should be thankful the GFCI is working properly. Whatever you do please don't bypass the GFCI protection, especially with outdoor lights.
CarolF (Florida)
Posts: 435
Posted:
Our GFIs trip also. The irrigation system comes on and that causes the problem.
Or, rain will do it. These are the lights that are strung on the shrubs in the common areas.
We reset them all the time.
LauraT (Florida)
Posts: 15
Posted:
Thank you! This has been happening from the first year. It seems to be water related. New to this and appreciate the help.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
GFIs (ground fault interrupts) are designed to go off when the live wire makes shorts to ground. GFIs are required by code to be on any receptacle by water. For a normal house, this is typically any outside outlets, any bathroom outlets and, perhaps, an outlet or two in the kitchen.

GFIs, do fail but not that often. Instead, there is likely something wrong somewhere.

Often there is only one GFI for all of those circuits. This can create become frustrating to locate the actual circuit causing the problem.

In the example Kerry provided, the GFI's tripping when the sprinkler is turned on, there is likely a problem with the installation of an outlet (bad seal, bad cover plate, etc.) allowing water to enter the electrical outlet and shorting it out. Instead of simply resetting the breaker or interrupt, time should be taken to identify which outlet and fix the actual problem before the water starts to corrode the wires.

When I place holiday lights outside, I take the extra step to tape up (using electrical tape) all plugs and extension cord connections. This ensures that the connection will stay together and keeps the water out.

It's also possible that you have a bad set of lights or lights that are failing and need replaced.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Oops, Carol gave the example of the sprinkler tripping the GFIs, not Kerry.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Tim,

You are absolutely correct.

PLUS

(read it and weep)

THERE ARE NO 'OUTDOOR' EXTENSION CORDS RATED FOR WATER CONTACT/WET LOCATIONS SOLD AT 'THE BIG BOX STORE'. THERE ARE NO CONSUMER GRADE LIGHTS/DECORATIONS RATED FOR WATER CONTACT/WET LOCATIONS SOLD AT 'THE BIG BOX STORE'

This very thread proves the point.

WE ARE CORPORATIONS

NOT SOCIAL CLUBS

This thread also demonstrates the danger of well meaning volunteerism at work.

BUT

The 'do gooders' will continue to merely reset the code required safety devices rather than elimate the cause of their 'tripping'.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
LauraT,

The solution is to have COMMERCIAL GRADE, WET LOCATION RATED decorations if electric in nature.

There is NO OTHER SAFE solution.

What a member does in their own home ? who cares

What the CORPORATION does on COMMUNAL PROPERTY may, or may not, constitute actual malfeasance (now that it is aware of the safety issues and NEC violations).

The 'ratings' of your 'decorations' (otherwise nick-named fire starters by your local FD) are located on the tags affixed to their cords.

ps. the National Electric Code does NOT, repeat NOT, permit the use of 'unattended' extension cords anytime for any reason

if the Corporation wishes to install electric decorations, the corp. needs to have weatherproof outdoor receptacles installed by a licensed electrician

Y'all are NOT a social club.
CarolF (Florida)
Posts: 435
Posted:
Folks.........we do have "waterproof receptacles " that were installed by licensed electricians.
The strings of lights were purchased at a big box store, and they do say "outdoor". Maybe they lied.
Guess the strings of lights plugged together are part of the problem. We have tried wrapping the connections in plastic and that just seemed to hold the moisture. I'll try the electricians tape suggestion. Thanks
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
I know my property is older with all external outlets tied to the bathroom GFCI receptacle. Confused the heck out of me when nearly half my outlets stopped working when some moisture tripped a Florida Room light.

Now everything is better shielded from the environment and haven't had an issue in years... but my wife recently plugged in a bunch of lights outside and used one of those stakes with several outlets on them and has it in the yard and running to my porch light converted to an outlet so we'll see...
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolF on 12/13/2015 8:49 AM

I'll try the electricians tape suggestion. Thanks

Don't skimp on the tape.

Once all possible openings are covered (wire going into plug end, joint where plug and socket meet, etc.) put 3 or 4 layers of wrap on it (I simply keep it as one continues strip of tape). I also turn the torn outer end on itself, creating a pull end that doesn't stick down. This makes removing the tape easier when the lights need to be taken down and put away.

PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
The strings of lights were purchased at a big box store, and they do say "outdoor". Maybe they lied.


No, they did not lie.

They did NOT specify what 'outdoor' rated means:

Polarized plugs.

Damp conditions (fog, dew), covered from direct exposure to water (on the porch).

NOT rated for direct ground contact or exposed to an irrigation system or a heavy rain.

THAT would require a rating of 'waterproof' or 'suitable for wet location'.

Either way, the use of unattended extension cords is prohibited.

Stringing lights together end to end with the connections exposed ? D'OH
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
ps.

? would you hang an outdoor rated ceiling fan from a tree branch exposed to the rain and irrigation system ?

LauraT (Florida)
Posts: 15
Posted:
We have receptacles installed by a licensed electrician and the lights and installation was provided by a holiday lighting company that supplied the lights. I noticed that you can get commerical grade lights which I guess is what you are recommending. Is that relatively new or has it been around for a while.

I would not bypass the GCFI.

Someone suggested that low votage outlets may not require GCFI but still support low voltage led lighting? Any thoughts on this?
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
We have receptacles installed by a licensed electrician and the lights and installation was provided by a holiday lighting company that supplied the lights.


What do your paid (but evidently unsupervised) vendors say ?

Have they been paid in full ?

Why, if the work has proven unsatisfactory ?

The issue is for your vendors, not the world wide web
LauraT (Florida)
Posts: 15
Posted:
the provider was selected before my tenure. I am looking for solutions. Obviously what was provided did not work. I am looking for solutions that would work, so I can determine where the problem lies. If they should have used waterproof lights but the former board only approved regular lights, I cannot blame the lighting company.

I am not really interested in blame except to the extent that we should get what we paid for, but if the formaer board took the inexpensive route dispite being told there would be problems, then I cannot hold them responsible.

I am really concentrating on how to fix it, so my homeowners get to enjoy the lights this holiday.

LauraT (Florida)
Posts: 15
Posted:
it seems like many hoa's are haivng this issue, so a solution or two would definitely help quite a few organizations on this site.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Waterproof COMMERCIAL GRADE lights for the CORPORATION.

Any 'extensions' should also be waterproof.

I 'believe' the electrical terminology is: approved for WET locations.

Voila ... problem solved.

however

$$$$$$$

Put it to the membership ?!
BuddyJ (Maryland)
Posts: 37
Posted:
Make sure the GFCI's are labeled "WR" for weather resistant and enclosed in a outdoor box. We have outdoor Christmas lights with no issues once we started using the WR grade GFCI outlets.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
You also have no actual 'ground faults' or leakage to neutral from improper or defective lights and/or extension cords.

The 'weather proof' box merely protects the actual receptacle NOT the extensions and lights.

One would WANT the GFCI to 'trip' at the 'drop of a hat'.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 12/13/2015 5:48 AM
GFIs (ground fault interrupts) are designed to go off when the live wire makes shorts to ground. GFIs are required by code to be on any receptacle by water. For a normal house, this is typically any outside outlets, any bathroom outlets and, perhaps, an outlet or two in the kitchen.


I just found a home inspection report that recommended against plugging a refrigerator into a GFCI plug. The reasoning was that the devices trip too easily and your first clue that something is wrong could be a refrigerator full of rotting food.

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 12/20/2015 12:33 PM
Posted By TimB4 on 12/13/2015 5:48 AM
GFIs (ground fault interrupts) are designed to go off when the live wire makes shorts to ground. GFIs are required by code to be on any receptacle by water. For a normal house, this is typically any outside outlets, any bathroom outlets and, perhaps, an outlet or two in the kitchen.


I just found a home inspection report that recommended against plugging a refrigerator into a GFCI plug. The reasoning was that the devices trip too easily and your first clue that something is wrong could be a refrigerator full of rotting food.

Obviously, the building code varies by locality, but in my ~ 20yo home, all of the kitchen outlets are GFCI protected, except for the one designed to be used for the refrigerator. I guess the assumption is that since it's not easily accessible, it most likely won't get used for the types of uses where a GFCI is really needed.

I do agree that a GFCI is a bad idea for a refrigerator, our garage fridge was plugged into one and it tripped one day. We didn't realize until much later, luckily that's mainly our drinks fridge.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

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