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VelappanP (Illinois)
Posts: 27
Posted:

Hi, We are party of a very large HOA of over 250 units. The current board (they are all friends are relatives) decided remove the existing MC and hire a newly established company by one of the board member. The HOA attorney send us a letter stating that board decision and gave us the option to file a petition of take that decision through a homeowner voting.

I submitted the petition to the attorney and he never replied to me. In the mean time the board member who owns the MC did the signature verification and send the list to the only board member who also supported petition. The petition was signed by over 27% of the unit owners. She invalidated enough signature that it came just under 20% unit owners.

The question is: Since she is the subject of the petition, is she qualified to do the signature?
1. Against what signature can they compare and say that its a bad signature.
2. Does the association or the attorney has a responsibility to respond to the person who submitted the petition.
3. Can I take them to court to force the HOA to honor the petition?. If the count allow the petition and if we disqualify her as a property manager, can we go after recouping the management fees she collected (she has been collecting over 150K on an annualized basis and using club house to run her business)?
4. We don't even know the name of the property management company. How can I get it (I tried searching company records with her name and address and did return nothing).
5. The current board is following illegal and unethical practices. For example they are spreading the news that the new units coming to the market cannot be bought by investors. There is no Bylaws to support this. If you are selling, you cannot sell your unit to investors. But we found that the units that are not rentable are being bought buy three of the board members for investment purposes. This includes the board member who owns the MC (who is also a Realtor). They are pretty good at committing this fraud as they will never give any written instructions to the listing agents.

Also all the units listed today are “not-rentable”. This is a well coerced plan to scare away investors and low-ball the unit prices and eventually own them all. The careless listing agents are falling in their lies and these guys are buying the units for themselves.
What is the best way to expose them to the authorities.

I like to get your response in private. as this could impact our plans to deal with the situation. Please emial your response to [email protected]

Thanks,
VP
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Velappan,

What were the requirements for the petition? Was it x% of members or x% of members in good standing?

If it was x% of members, there is only three reasons to disqualify a signature:
1) Individual was not a member (renter, name not on the deed, etc)
2) Member signed twice (1 spouse signs one day, 1 spouse signs the next day)
3) Unable to identify (can't read the name)

As for the individual being qualified to check names, yes they are likely qualified to look at a list of names on a petition and verify that against the membership list. The question should have been, Is this a conflict of interest? The answer to that is yes.

As for your other questions:


They likely are not challenging the signature but the standing of the name and if they are actually a member or not. Some Associations limit membership to the name on the actual deed. Both spouses are not always on the deed.

2. Does the association or the attorney has a responsibility to respond to the person who submitted the petition.
In a courtesy sense, yes. However, as I understand it, the attorney only has to respond if directed to by the Board or answering a motion filed with the courts.

Keep in mind that the Attorney works for the Association (at the direction of the Board) not the membership or any individual member. If you asked these same questions of that attorney, that would have been improper and the attorney would likely not respond. You need to consult with your own attorney.

3. Can I take them to court to force the HOA to honor the petition?.
Yes, you can take them to court and file an injunction. Consult a local attorney to see what would be required.
Forcing the HOA to honor the petition would be the decision of the court.

If the count allow the petition and if we disqualify her as a property manager, can we go after recouping the management fees she collected (she has been collecting over 150K on an annualized basis and using club house to run her business)?

Probably not. The Board awarded the contract and was likely aware of the conflict of interest when they made the decision.

4. We don't even know the name of the property management company. How can I get it (I tried searching company records with her name and address and did return nothing).

Request to review a copy of the contract.
Typically, governing documents allow members to review documents.
Typically, Statutes also allow members to review documents (however, I have not checked applicable IL statutes)
If the company is not incorporated, it may simply be the individuals name.

5. The current board is following illegal and unethical practices.
For example they are spreading the news that the new units coming to the market cannot be bought by investors. There is no Bylaws to support this.

As you use the term unit, I will expect that you are in a condominium.
There are limits to the number of rental units within a Condominium to maintain HUD certification.

However, unless you are the one actually selling and been refused to sell to an investor, you might not have any standing to challenge this action through the courts. However, I am not an attorney. Therefore, check with a local attorney to see if you would have standing or not.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Vela

Generally a petition has no standing other than it is informational. Generally to cancel a contract the BOD has entered into would require recalling some or all of the BOD then having the new BOD revote on the contract. I know of no way a member's petition can cause a contract to be cancelled.

There are methods for owners to call special meetings and override BOD decisions but that will generally take at least 51% of all owners (at the meeting or not) voting to override. You have only shown the ability to get 27% or less and that was simply asking them to sign a petition, not calling for and attending a special meeting.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
John,

Expecting that Vela is in a condominium complex, 765 ILCS 605/18 (scroll down to almost halfway) states:

(16) the board of managers may not enter into a contract with a current board member or with a corporation or partnership in which a board member or a member of the board member's immediate family has 25% or more interest, unless notice of intent to enter the contract is given to unit owners within 20 days after a decision is made to enter into the contract and the unit owners are afforded an opportunity by filing a petition, signed by 20% of the unit owners, for an election to approve or disapprove the contract; such petition shall be filed within 20 days after such notice and such election shall be held within 30 days after filing the petition; for purposes of this subsection, a board member's immediate family means the board member's spouse, parents, and children;
VelappanP (Illinois)
Posts: 27
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 12/03/2015 6:39 AM

(16) the board of managers may not enter into a contract with a current board member or with a corporation or partnership in which a board member or a member of the board member's immediate family has 25% or more interest, unless notice of intent to enter the contract is given to unit owners within 20 days after a decision is made to enter into the contract and the unit owners are afforded an opportunity by filing a petition, signed by 20% of the unit owners, for an election to approve or disapprove the contract; such petition shall be filed within 20 days after such notice and such election shall be held within 30 days after filing the petition; for purposes of this subsection, a board member's immediate family means the board member's spouse, parents, and children;

This is exactly we have been trying to do. The petition is to call the meeting. If meeting is held, then I just need a simple majority of the whose who attended the meeting and not support of 51% of the unit owner.. is that right?
VelappanP (Illinois)
Posts: 27
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 12/03/2015 4:59 AM
5. The current board is following illegal and unethical practices.
For example they are spreading the news that the new units coming to the market cannot be bought by investors. There is no Bylaws to support this.

As you use the term unit, I will expect that you are in a condominium.
There are limits to the number of rental units within a Condominium to maintain HUD certification.

However, unless you are the one actually selling and been refused to sell to an investor, you might not have any standing to challenge this action through the courts. However, I am not an attorney. Therefore, check with a local attorney to see if you would have standing or not.

The owner occupancy in this complex is 17% and there is not current bylaws that states a particular percentage of owner occupants.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By VelappanP on 12/03/2015 7:42 AM
Posted By TimB4 on 12/03/2015 6:39 AM

(16) the board of managers may not enter into a contract with a current board member or with a corporation or partnership in which a board member or a member of the board member's immediate family has 25% or more interest, unless notice of intent to enter the contract is given to unit owners within 20 days after a decision is made to enter into the contract and the unit owners are afforded an opportunity by filing a petition, signed by 20% of the unit owners, for an election to approve or disapprove the contract; such petition shall be filed within 20 days after such notice and such election shall be held within 30 days after filing the petition; for purposes of this subsection, a board member's immediate family means the board member's spouse, parents, and children;


This is exactly we have been trying to do. The petition is to call the meeting. If meeting is held, then I just need a simple majority of the whose who attended the meeting and not support of 51% of the unit owner.. is that right?

The way I'm reading it, you are correct. You need to have 20% of the membership sign the petition. The members need not be in good standing, simply be a member to sign the petition.

Members not in good standing (delinquent on payments) might not be able to vote, but the can sign the petition to force a vote. I would insist on knowing what names were invalidated and why. You should insist on this in writing and have the response in writing. You may need an attorney to write the request on your behalf in order to get the Board to respond (based on what you are posting here). Reason being that if needed, such a request would be part of any legal action to force a meeting.

From my understanding of the statute (and I am not an attorney) I would agree with your interpretation that you need a simple majority of votes cast at the meeting to overturn the contract.

VelappanP (Illinois)
Posts: 27
Posted:
Thank you Tim!

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