Can a board have a workshop?

Out board wants to have a workshop. They have given proper notice. They have told the homeowners that no decisions will be made at the workshop. They have told the owners they may not participate or talk during the workshop in any manner.

This occurs in AZ.

The by-laws only discuss two types of meetings for the board, regular and special.

Arizona law on open meetings state
"Notwithstanding any provision in the declaration, bylaws or other documents to the contrary, all meetings of the association and board of directors are open to all members of the association or any person designated by a member in writing as the member's representative and all members or designated representatives so desiring shall be permitted to attend and speak at an appropriate time during the deliberations and proceedings."

Does this information imply that the board can't have a workshop since it is not specified in the by-laws?

Does this imply that it is really a regular board meeting, thus members may be permitted to speak?

This is happening tonight.

Yes Robert, the Board can hold a workshop; or whatever else they wish to call a meeting of the Board. But for ALL meetings ALL owners should be invited. Do you really think the word workshop, combined with no decisions will be made, equals no meeting?

At any meeting the input from homeowners can be limited by the Chair in a prudent manner for timely completion of the goals.

RobertG:
If we are to take the above quote (taken out of context...) literally, then it would appear that the Board holding a workshop is not actually the issue. Does it really matter what the Board calls the meeting: workshop, seminar, lecture, community meeting, etc., the quote states that ...'shall be permitted to attend and speak at an appropriate time during the deliberations and proceedings.' and this is pertaining to ALL MEETINGS. What is at stake here is that the members were told they are not allowed to speak.

The dictionary explains deliberation as: thoughtful & lengthy consideration; formal discussion & debate of all sides of an issue.
- if the Board is going to speak/present on any issue, then AZ law says the members have the right to speak at an appropriate time...

I would remind the Board of AZ law and the fact that because the Board is calling it a 'workshop' (which implies a time of learning...) in no way prevents the members from 'attending or speaking...' Further, suggest that AFTER the deliberation or presentation/proceedings the members be given a time
at the end to give their concerns/thoughts to what was presented by the Board.

Robert,

Any idea what the "workshop" is about? Is someone coming in to train the Board on how to use the Excel spreadsheet software or to maintain the pool filters, or is it just a codeword for an "off the record" Board meeting?

If they're paying someone by the hour to do some specific training, which is my concept of a "workshop", I could at least see why they wouldn't want to run up the clock by having a dozen owners asking questions and making comments throughout the program. If it's just a regular meeting, then owners should be allowed to attend and make comments.

Did you ever stop and think "what constitutes a meeting! Any time a quorum of the board are present and they talk assocaition business it is a meeting,even if it is at a picnic! If you want to keep peace in the vally, always have open meetings, everything open and above board. An "Executive" meeting is held only when the Board is discussing a deliquint owner, collection,legal action or disaplinary action against an owner. Even these meeting must be entered into the minutes. As an Assocaition president for the last five years I find that if you have no secrets you have no problems. Always remember, the majority rules!
To be a good President you need to be a good salesperson....

Actually Robert you should have taped the meeting (smile) as it was a post noted earlier on this forum. What occured was a violation of "open meeting" laws and while your objections were valid, I would say that it was also a time to allow the board to "commit" to what they have done further. Sometimes the hardest thing to do, is NOT to act. You may have benefited from the additional information presented at the "workshop" had you stayed. It is not like you now have a "set of minutes" that you can review.

Make sure that you mention this during the next "official" meeting of the board, and please note that the MC supported this action. That speaks (IMHO) volumes to the level of professionalism in their services to the membership.

Remember, I did stay for a portion where they did discuss a topic that I had brought to their attention at an earlier time.

I do think someone took notes for a "minutes" of the meeting document. I am not sure if that was the purpose.

I think you miss a really big point. If this group will not listen to a reasonable argument as to the illegality of the meeting, what makes you think that bringing it up at the next official meeting is going to make any difference. Who does it "speak to"? The board obviously doesn't care, so what's the point of telling them again? When you have unreasonable thinking people, then you can't reason with them.

Robert truly sorry on two fronts with your situation.

The first, that you are subjected to such a sicuation.

Second that you are considering giving up.

My comments about taping the meeting were in jest. However I was very serious about allowing "enough rope" to the board and the MC to further dig a hole for themselves by their actions. It is a shame that they were not willing to heed your advice on those points of order (law) that they were violating. However it was more important to allow them to commit themselves, AND to have it as part of the official record of the next board meeting. Sometimes, you have to document, document, and document again, infractions in order to effect change. Some folks call it "cya," I call it good factual information to support my position.

I also agree with Harold, up to a point, had the events occured. I believe that you should have either sat quietly during the meeting as suggested above, taking notes after more notes, of what was said/done, to the end. Or that you should have allowed the board to "call the cops." Just because an officer appears on scene does not mean that you are immediately arrested. The officer will "interview" the parties to the action and make an informed and "on the ground" decision as to what occurred and whether or not it requires (or is even authorized) to take his/her actions. Having the police officer present in that situation, answering a dispatch call, interviewing the parties, filing an after action report (whether or not an arrest is effected), equates to a unbiased third party witness. I would never suggest that you take it to the level of the officer putting you in shiney braclets, just to make a point about an HOA (hope that your wife isn't like my father and my old drill instructor = both told me that they would come and get me from a police station ONE time, after that I am on my own - wonder if that offer expired, since I am President of my HOA might need that along with the Directors, Officers Liability insurance ...?).

It is a shame that a concerned member of your community has been treated in such a manner by your HOA. If they were to post here, I am sure that they would have a different version of how things have gotten to this point. However when you have a member who takes the time to properly educate and cite the applicable laws regarding HOA's business practices, and is ignored, it is/would be hard to accept any explanations from the board/MC. They maybe frustrated, through ignorance of how to properly (and lawfully) conduct HOA matters - and that has caused them to "turtle" (retreat from membership to make decisions). Does not make it correct, but it is a symptom of what some HOA's have suffered. They maybe "arrogant" and unyielding to what is best for the community, by own personal agendas. Who knows...? It is like having a flat tire on the highway, you gotta either change it out to the horrible "doughnut" spare, or ride it out to the nearest gas station. Neither situation is wonderful, but a necessary evil to accomplish your goals. Either stick it out to effect change, find another member that you can mentor to get them involved, or rally up the troops/members and make your own changes. But NEVER allow the stress of an HOA to impact upon your life in a negative manner. Life is too short in an HOA, and the only thing certain is moving, and assessments..... (smile)

Just to make a few points.

I was a board member for the first half of last year. After an incident with these same board members which would be considered by most as a threatening action, I decided to leave to the board. Just about every vote that was taken during the time I was on the board was at least 4 to 1 (me) (where two others voted more randomly). I felt that if I could never get anything accomplished, then why stay on the board and that I should find a better way to improve the community. I know I must have done something to alienate the 4 core members, but I am not sure what it was. I tend to think I wanted more structure and to follow a set of rules. They wanted to have a place to exercise their power on their own with their own rules.

This is not the first time this board has violated open meeting laws and has been told about their action. I know of more than 4 times last year. This does not count the number actions that have been taken in executive session that has no business being done there - like approving the MC contract or appointing a new replacement board member.

I have had a community website that had relevant information for both the HOA and the local community. I very clearly tried not to duplicate anything the HOA website contained other than information like minutes or financial summaries as they didn't appear on the official site for months. Various people have commented on how informative my website was.

I have tried to attend all the board meetings, take notes and speak up when I felt something was being overlooked. Very few other homeowners have taken the same level of interest. Others can decide if I have crossed the line in my efforts to speak out on issues that relate to the HOA properly.