💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

JohnL26 (Florida)
Posts: 89
Posted:
By virtue of a Special Meeting of members our Association (Florida non-profit) had its first election since 2006 in June of this year. All 5 seats were filled.

Our documents specify 3 year terms and some people are calling for an election at the upcoming AGM in December because they have had legal advice that the election in June was simply to replace holdover directors and that there is a 3 year cycle based on the 2006 election (I'm not sure if it's relevant but this was the first election after formation in 2005 and this was also at a Special Meeting in I think July).

We don't have anything in our Governing Documents to suggest there are staggered terms and I've seen an Arbitration Case where this 3 year cycle has been enforced (http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/lsc/arbitration/allorders/2010022497.pdf) but this was based on the fact that FS 617.0806 applies when staggered terms are in operation, with the tribunal concluding "Holdover directors are not automatically appointed to the remaining portion of the term, they only serve a portion of the term until a replacement can be elected."

Not all 5 seats were in existence in 2006, 2 more were added in 2010. Does this mean we do have staggered terms with two of the seats having a different cycle?

If so, we have a problem because the directors elected in June do not know which seats they occupy.

FS 617.0809 states "Any directorship to be filled by reason of an increase in the number of directors may be filled by the board of directors, but only for a term of office continuing until the next election of directors by the members"

For the two seats we don't know the occupants of, would this mean the cycle is based on 2010? Or does it mean that the election in June started a new cycle and those 2 seats need not be voted on until 2018? Or something else?

Can anybody help?
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
John,

I am not all that familiar with Florida law but it appears that you do not have staggered terms but you do have 3-year terms. This means that all five board members are up for election every three years.

The special meeting in June kind of mucks things up a bit but I think it could all be resolved by holding another election for all five seats at your annual meeting in December. As a practical matter, you could start the clock running from that election. Your next election for all five seats would then be held in December, 2018, but you might have one or more seat to fill in 2016 or 2017 if there are vacancies.

I am curious as to why your association went without an election for 8-and-half-years, during which time the board was expanded by two seats?

JohnL26 (Florida)
Posts: 89
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 10/28/2015 2:06 AM

I am curious as to why your association went without an election for 8-and-half-years, during which time the board was expanded by two seats?


Thanks Larry,

There is serious apathy among homeowners and in the past no real encouragement from the BOD to try and educate homeowners and get them involved. There was no quorum until there was an issue last year which resulted in discontent with the BOD and a petition for a Special Meeting.

Our HOA documents are poorly drafted and there is actually no mention of election by members.

For member meetings the BOD have an option to reduce the quorum from 30% to 15% with a second meeting but never took the option and was never put under any pressure to do so.

In 2011 there was discontent about something, possibly landscaping, and there was an attempt by one homeowner to generate interest in an election. The AGM meeting agenda included an election but the BOD took legal advice when it looked like one might actually take place and then claimed the next election was 2012. Whether there was a quorum at the 2011 AGM was disputed but taken no further. Whether that advice was correct is in my mind a matter of dispute. I must admit the concept of fixed cycles isn't something I have found in either statute or the HOA Documents. Just that there is a term of 3 years.

In 2012 there was no election on the agenda of the AGM.

There have been changes over the years but always by appointment. I think the addition of 2 new seats was an attempt to get more people involved but the fact that the option to never reduce the percentage to 15% suggests to me they didn't want homeowners to choose the board members or didn't think it was worthwhile trying.

I must admit I never took much interest until last year.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
AGM? I get Annual Meeting, but what's the G stand for?

My own HOA's governing documents are also poorly drafted. The bylaws say the board shall consist of "not less than three" directors but there's no mention of a maximum number. There was a resolution passed long ago that no one can put their finger on that resulted in the use of staggered terms for directors. All our directors serve 2 year terms but the staggering part is often a mess since each of the past 5 years, at least, have seen one or more director resignations. We sort of know what seats are open every year but in all honesty it's not a priority since we're lucky we have anyone at all willing to serve.

That's an interesting arbitration case you linked. It's probably a good idea to designate the available seats as "Seat 1", "Seat 2", etc. I proposed we adopt that method here to avoid confusion but nobody else was interested in doing it, mainly for the reason I outlined above.

Next January we'll have one person on the board with a year left on his term. All other seats are open and will be for new 2-year terms. Not a whole lot of staggering going on and the purpose of it - to retain corporate knowledge - is negated for the most part.

I wish I could offer more. I can see how it might be a cause for concern if there was competition for the board seats amid controversial things going on.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
AGM = Annual General Membership
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 10/28/2015 6:38 PM
AGM = Annual General Membership

Thanks, Tim, I had a feeling that might be it. Curious term, though, the Florida statutes only refer to the "Annual Meeting" or a "meeting of the members". I guess an association is free to call its members' meetings whatever they want as long as the type of meeting is clear.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
VA statutes refer to it as"meeting of members" or "annual meeting" as well.

Our Governing documents refer to as a general membership meeting (to differentiate between Board or Committee meetings)
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Our 2011 annual meeting notice went out under the large bold typeface header that read, "Annual Board Meeting". Sometimes you just have to shake your head.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 10/28/2015 11:00 PM
Our 2011 annual meeting notice went out under the large bold typeface header that read, "Annual Board Meeting". Sometimes you just have to shake your head.

I run into this type of thing too. Sometimes I just have to educate other board members about the proper terminology. One reason I decided to run for the board again after many years off is that the board was referring to the CCRs as "bylaws" and didn't realize they didn't even have a copy of the real by-laws.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
JohnL26 (Florida)
Posts: 89
Posted:
I apologise. I'm from the UK and AGM is the term that we use here for companies that have shareholders. The HOA documents refer to this as just an Annual Meeting of Members.

Can I take it that everybody agrees that an election is required in December?

If there is no quorum at that meeting, does this carry over to the next Annual Meeting (or Special Meeting called for that purpose)? Or does the requirement then move to 2018?

Our HOA Documents are silent on this issue. No mention at all in regard to elections by members. Like I said earlier, the Governing Docs. just stipulate 3 year terms and say that any Director appointed by the BOD serves for the unexpired part of the term (when a current Director resigns, dies or is removed).

If anybody could point me to legislation or Case Law it would help when I present this to the BOD.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here