Public Health Issue

Started by BonnieG1 • 82 replies • 5145 views

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BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Our renter who is incontinent also has another very strong odor that is not urine. One of our new members was at our Board meeting yesterday evening to complain about the very strong odor coming from our renter's apartment.

The new owner was not the only person at the meeting to complain about the odor. However the new owner works at the care center and is familiar with some medical condition. She did mention a name of a medical condition that causes such a strong offensive odor. This condition is quite dangerous. Of course we can not refer to any medical diagnosis when dealing with the owner.

I know people on this site have basically told me I need to mind my own business and leave the incontinent renter alone. But when I person is practically knocked over due to the smell it is past time to do something about this.

We did address this in a closed meeting yesterday and allowed the people who had come to the meeting to complain about the odor to stay for the part of the meeting where we addressed this issue,

We are sending a letter to the owner of the unit basically letting him know he needs to let us know what the long term solution the problem will be and that he will be responsible for any future clean up expense caused by his renter.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Bonnie

Call The Department of Public Health and report the issue.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

John with all due respect - wrong. Bonnie tell the people complaining to call, stop getting involved or involving the HOA into every picayune matter.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Bonnie

I spoke to soon and did not say tell the complainers to call the Board of Helath. Glen is correct. It is not an HOA issue.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

aaah, Bonnie;

You are doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results each time.

? What would Einstein say ?

Unless SPECIFICALLY addressed in the Covenant(s) a person's odor, or lack thereof, is not the business of the HOA, Inc.

The HOA's ONLY duty is MAINTENANCE and BILL PAYING.

If you truly feel there is a health emergency, call the appropriate agency.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Bonnie lives in a condo building like ours. Our CC&Rs state that no noxious odors may leave the unit and stink up the common areas (the corridors) or words to that effect.

If you don't have a specific odor clause, you may have a "nuisance" clause that has the same effect. So, It is an HOA issue after all if your documents say so!

If, Bonnie, you have similar wording and the odor has been confirm by a director or your PM, send a warning letter to the owner do do whatever is necessary to eliminate the odor from your common areas. There is NO need to about his/her tenants' health or cleanliness issues, only the noxious odor.

Simultaneously, call the Health Health Dept. for advice.

Just last night I got a bcc email from an owner to our PM who griped about a marijuana odor in his hallway that he's complained about in an open forum at an open board meeting a couple of months ago. At that time, the board prez and the PM both advised him to contact mgmt. or security when this odor is in his corridor for corroboration. this is needed before the PM will send a warning letter, So that's exactly how I replied to him last evening.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 10/22/2015 8:21 AM
Bonnie lives in a condo building like ours. Our CC&Rs state that no noxious odors may leave the unit and stink up the common areas (the corridors) or words to that effect.

If you don't have a specific odor clause, you may have a "nuisance" clause that has the same effect. So, It is an HOA issue after all if your documents say so!

If, Bonnie, you have similar wording and the odor has been confirm by a director or your PM, send a warning letter to the owner do do whatever is necessary to eliminate the odor from your common areas. There is NO need to about his/her tenants' health or cleanliness issues, only the noxious odor.

Simultaneously, call the Health Health Dept. for advice.

Just last night I got a bcc email from an owner to our PM who griped about a marijuana odor in his hallway that he's complained about in an open forum at an open board meeting a couple of months ago. At that time, the board prez and the PM both advised him to contact mgmt. or security when this odor is in his corridor for corroboration. this is needed before the PM will send a warning letter, So that's exactly how I replied to him last evening.

I would love to see you post those exact words from your CCRs.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 351

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 10/22/2015 8:21 AM

If you don't have a specific odor clause, you may have a "nuisance" clause that has the same effect. So, It is an HOA issue after all if your documents say so!

A nuisance can be so broadly defined as to be anything you want it to be. As such, a HOA should just MYOB

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

I happened to go through ten of the "most" likely HOA's that I have managed to have the term "odor" in their CCRs, based on being stacked Condos and some who have prominent residents. I came across two CCRs referencing odor and BOTH referenced trash. Nothing about personal hygiene.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Richard, I wrote that personal hygiene should not be mentioned in a violation warning letter to the owner, only noxious odors emanating from that unit IF such a clause is in Bonne's governing docs. Please reread.

It's interesting that you' f go through your files on this one, Richard.

We have a similar clause in our ARC Guidelines because of the strong odors that can be produced by certain hard floor surface finishes & paints.

Here is our CC&R: "Offensive Conduct; Nuisances. No noxious or offensive activities shall be conducted within the Project. Nothing shall be done on or within the Project that may be or may become an annoyance to the resident of the Project. To odorous matters shall be emitted upon or about the project in such quantity as to be readily detectable outside the physical boundaries of the space within which such odor was generated."

Our CC&Rs were written by a very large MC that no longer serves us, but I'm willing to bet a similar clauses is in all of their accounts that have enclosed hallways like we do and like Bonnie does.

When we get a corroborated report of that skunk smell in the corridor of the man who complained to me last night, you can bet the owner will get a warning letter and if the stench doesn't stop, he'll be called to a hearing an fined. This tenants need to go out on their balcony to smoke.

We did take a similar action a few years ago when an owner who had his condo on the market complained bitterly. We send at warning letter & the odor stopped.

In a case anyone is wondering, no we neve have had a complaint about cabbage, fish or curry cooking odors (but then I like the latter a lot!).

Bonnies, as I've asked you f before, if you have a noxious odor or nuisance clause, why hasn't your PM handled this?? why doesn't he send the letter?

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Kerry,
We previously sent a letter to the owner of the unit. The PM composed it and I signed it. I have decided that any letter I sign, I prefer to also compose.

I did just get a letter from our PM regarding pet rabbits living in a unit. The PM composed and will sign this letters.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Kerry

You might want to get used to the smell of marijuana as California can't be that far behind in legalizing it.

As far as looking up CCRs, it took me five minutes with a pdf copy and "control f". It might take you longer looking something up on davis-stirling.com.

As others have said, have Bonnie call the Health Dept and be done with it. They would be in a much better position to help the person than the HOA.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Our docs says we don't have to put up with bad odors in our hallways-legal or not-- and our board will enforce them. It doesn't matter if the odors are from weed, lacquer, tobacco or whatever. I'm afraid you're missing the point. Did you see my citation of a CC&R article? Do you love it as you a said you would?

I'm puzzled by your reference to D-S.com?????

I agree above that Bonnie also call the Board of Health in her case.

Look, Richard, I lived in Santa Cruz off & on for many years so you can be sure I've been "used" to the small of marijuana for decades. Doesn't mean I like it or that we have to "get used to it" in our common area corridors. I'm baffled why this matters so much to you??

(Each tower here has a core set of elevators and the corridors surrounds that core. There's a max of 5 condos per floor.)

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Bonnie brought up ...whatever it is.. and you brought up weed, not me.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

The topic, Richard, is common area corridor noxious odors.

You didn't seem to believe we have a CC&R about that topic. I quoted it for you, but you made no comment. Our CC&Rs don't permit nasty smells in our hallways, and maybe Bonnie's don't either. the info was for her....

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Kerry

I am not a lawyer, but Bonnie's situation and your CCRs would be a stretch for me.

No offense, but i hate the smell of fish and curry, and since I would consider cooking an activity under your CCRs, would you fine the owner if they lived next door to me?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Jeez, Richard, don't you read my replies?? I wrote above that in my nine years on the board we've never had a complaint about cooking odors. I think your remark about our CC&R & all the my urban area's high rises written by the same mgmt. firm for the same developer won't stand up in court is just plain silly.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Kerry

Exactly where did I say it wouldn't stand up in court. Remind me, are you the one that live in a twin tower high rise?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

My reference to court, was in reply to your "I am not a lawyer..." but my CC&Rs "...would be a stretch for..." you. If you don't mean in the legal Sense, Richard, what DO you mean?

Please read the start of this where I say ours also is a condo bldg. like Bonnie's, i.e., she & I both are in buildings with shared hallways. That's all that matters on this topic.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 10/23/2015 8:22 AM
My reference to court, was in reply to your "I am not a lawyer..." but my CC&Rs "...would be a stretch for..." you. If you don't mean in the legal Sense, Richard, what DO you mean?

Please read the start of this where I say ours also is a condo bldg. like Bonnie's, i.e., she & I both are in buildings with shared hallways. That's all that matters on this topic.

You're right. I have no idea what a condo building is and what someone would consider shared hallway.

I will forever not comment on the nonsense that goes on in Nebraska. Go Cornhuskers!

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 10/21/2015 8:22 PM
Our renter who is incontinent also has another very strong odor that is not urine. One of our new members was at our Board meeting yesterday evening to complain about the very strong odor coming from our renter's apartment.

The new owner was not the only person at the meeting to complain about the odor. However the new owner works at the care center and is familiar with some medical condition. She did mention a name of a medical condition that causes such a strong offensive odor. This condition is quite dangerous. Of course we can not refer to any medical diagnosis when dealing with the owner.

I know people on this site have basically told me I need to mind my own business and leave the incontinent renter alone. But when I person is practically knocked over due to the smell it is past time to do something about this.

We did address this in a closed meeting yesterday and allowed the people who had come to the meeting to complain about the odor to stay for the part of the meeting where we addressed this issue,

We are sending a letter to the owner of the unit basically letting him know he needs to let us know what the long term solution the problem will be and that he will be responsible for any future clean up expense caused by his renter.

Right now, that's probably the best way to address this - maybe if the owner comes over and gets a whiff, he'll be inclined to do something. In the meantime, what about stick up air fresheners - you'll probably need several, but it would be a start. And yes, the owner to pay for it.

I did a quick web search on trimethylaminuria, a rare genetic disorder that causes extreme body odor. The website said its treatment involves a combination of approaches, including dietary restrictions and supplements, antibiotics and special acidic soaps. I don't know if this is what this person has, but if you know if a neighbor who might be close to the renter, might he or she be willing to approach the person confidentially? The details of the conversation don't need to be disclosed to anyone, but might lead to changes down the road.

It is a delicate situation - it may be this person knows how bad the smell is, but is either nose blind to it all (like the commercial) or too embarrassed to say or do anything...

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

Would hallway mounted 'nose clip dispensers' be considered a 'reasonable accommodation'?

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

I did a quick web search on trimethylaminuria

Sheila that does sound like the name the lady at the care center mentioned.

As for some others suggestions to us air fresheners. Many of our residents have been doing this. I have personally done it more that one time.

Although we don't have anything in our documents that references odors, we do have a section that states a owner/occupant can not do anything that causes extra expense to the Association or any other owner.
We have informed the owner of the unit that he will be responsible for any clean up that is needed due to his renter's incontinence.

Also owners have the extra expense of the air fresheners.

If this were a condominium of houses I wouldn't be as concerned about the problem. But other people need to sit where this renter may have left some unwanted present such as urine.

For those of you that don't understand common hallways think of a motel or hotel.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 10/23/2015 7:40 PM [link added]

I did a quick web search on trimethylaminuria

If this is the reason for the smells then 3 things can be concluded from it:

1) It's a medical condition not an Association issue.

2) The Association may want to install industrial air deodorizers in the main common areas that would be used by this individual.

3) With the individuals permission (due to privacy concerns) the Association may want to educate the residents on the medical condition (don't identify the individual). The goal being to simply limit the number of complaints the Association receives.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I have a relative that has an odor problem. People tried to give him a hint/help by buying him soaps, deodrants, or other scents. It doesn't help. The issue requires special soaps and antibiotics. Sprays or other scent cover ups don't help that much but combine with the smell. It's not a nice combination and they are people too. Not everyone likes perfume or can give them headaches.

This isn't a HOA issue. It is the owner's issue. The owner is going to have to be involved in deciding if this is an issue with their property or not. They will be responsible for the clean up or eviction. The HOA can make the owner aware of the complaints, but that's about all. Even the owner can't evict based on smell unless it's in the rental agreement.

I say take a deep breath and become their friend. They must be very isolated and alone. Maybe not see them in person but maybe on social media sources. Become a friend first before you advise second...

You may want to get a auto air freshners in the hallways if they are shared. We have them in our bathroom. Scare the crap out of me all the time but they do work. Just expect that the smell isn't going to go away fully.

Former HOA President

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

the rental agreement states that the renters will abide by law the rules and regulation of the Association current and present. This renter is causing extra expense to other owners and the association whish is a violation of our Master Deed.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

Air fresheners would, in fact, be considered a reasonable accommodation by ANY jury.

But, heaven forbid, $100 should be spent to alleviate members' concerns about an odor.

Better to bitch, whine, moan, and wring one's hands over the world wide web.

ps. if I were the party involved I would grow garlic and oleander in pots - and leave the appropriate cheese on my counter to 'ripen'

pps. y'all REALLY need to get lives - the odor will be gone soon enough and you will have to search again for a complaint

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

The renter has nothing to do with your HOA. The OWNER does. Your HOA can NOT evict this tenant. The agreement the renter has is with the OWNER. The owner is the HOA member. Thus they are the ones causing the "Extra expense" to the HOA. Which I believe they are paying for through their dues themselves.

I don't see this as adding more expense to an HOA than any other consideration. It your HOA's choice of what to spend the money on. Apparently this is an issue you all choose to do so. No one is putting a gun to your head to do it. They say it's smells so lets spend our funds on a remedy. That's ALL on you.

Former HOA President

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 10/24/2015 8:53 AM
the rental agreement states that the renters will abide by law the rules and regulation of the Association current and present. This renter is causing extra expense to other owners and the association whish is a violation of our Master Deed.

Are you saying that you would treat the issue differently if the individual was an owner/member?

If you are, that would be incorrect action by the Association.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Are you sure you have no nuisance clause, Bonnie? Usually there's something in the docs that state that all residents should be able to enjoy their premises. And having to walk through a reeking corridor one or more times a day works against such enjoyment.

I think others & my original suggestion--to call the Health Dept.--still is a good one.

Air fresheners of any kind will only cover up the odor and not completely-- sometimes producing a worse odor.

I don't think it's wise to speculate about the diagnosis of the tenant.

With Sheila, I also think getting the owner over to take a whiff may encourage her/him to worry enough about their unit that they will at least provide a regular cleaning service. This owner will conclude that if it smells that badly in the enclosed hallway, how do his drapes, carpets, smell? and if furnished.... ?

Right, of course, all complaints and notes form the Board or PM need to go to the owner.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 10/24/2015 10:45 AM

Are you saying that you would treat the issue differently if the individual was an owner/member?

If you are, that would be incorrect action by the Association.

We would treat the issue the same if it were a homeowner. I was replying to the person who said we couldn't do anything about it unless it was in the lease agreement.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 10/24/2015 11:56 AM
Are you sure you have no nuisance clause, Bonnie? Usually there's something in the docs that state that all residents should be able to enjoy their premises. And having to walk through a reeking corridor one or more times a day works against such enjoyment.

I think others & my original suggestion--to call the Health Dept.--still is a good one.

Air fresheners of any kind will only cover up the odor and not completely-- sometimes producing a worse odor.

I don't think it's wise to speculate about the diagnosis of the tenant.

With Sheila, I also think getting the owner over to take a whiff may encourage her/him to worry enough about their unit that they will at least provide a regular cleaning service. This owner will conclude that if it smells that badly in the enclosed hallway, how do his drapes, carpets, smell? and if furnished.... ?

Right, of course, all complaints and notes form the Board or PM need to go to the owner.

Thanks for refreshing my memory. We do have a nuisance clause in our documents that is practically taken work for word form NE state law.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

The owner of the unit is her husband's father and mother. I suspect that they may be well aware of her problem.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

So, Bonnie send the nuisance clause and its violation to the Owners. Are you saying the husband lives in the unit there and daily smells the situation?

And call public health?

It's easy for others who reply who don't live in theses enclosed hallways situations to say to stick on up air fresheners. Or be her friend (!!) If you have CC&Rs to enforce about this, enforce 'em!

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I lived in the house with someone with this condition. Know it very well first hand. The HOA approaching the renter is the wrong way to go. It will just make them angry and embarrassed. I think hearing some advice from a "Friend" who truly is concerned about me would go much farther.

This is the owner's responsibility. Their property and their concern. The HOA can just bring it to their attention. That is the line. The owner should go to the Public Health if they are that concerned. None of the HOA's business beyond that...

Former HOA President

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 10/24/2015 9:32 PM
So, Bonnie send the nuisance clause and its violation to the Owners. Are you saying the husband lives in the unit there and daily smells the situation?

And call public health?

It's easy for others who reply who don't live in theses enclosed hallways situations to say to stick on up air fresheners. Or be her friend (!!) If you have CC&Rs to enforce about this, enforce 'em!

Yes, She has a husband who lives with her and he does notice. We have mailed the owner a letter citing the area of our documents that apply to this. However we did not site the nuisance clause in the letter. Both her and her husband are mentally challenged. The husband has a legal guardian (his father) who would have had to sign before they could marry. At least that was the law when I became my mother's legal guardian years ago.

Thank you for understanding what it is like to live in enclosed hallways situations. When she leaves her "presents" other people (especially the ones with poor eyesight) may step in it.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Whole new ballgame, Bonnie. You surely have in your CC&Rs or Rules & Regs that Owners can be fined if they or their tenants, etc., damage or soil the common areas, i.e., they can be billed for clean up. But it depends on NE statutes how you conduct the hearing to bill the Owner.

Meantime, surely your PM can have those soiled areas shampooed. Do you have onsite custodians for your common areas? Your PM should have them pull out how much time they're spending on cleaning those areas of the carpet. (Or are the halls not carpeted?)

AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 10/25/2015 5:30 AM

So you have married neighbors who are mentally challenged and there is a strong odor coming from the apartment aside from her personal hygiene problem? Instead of calling the health department, perhaps this is a question of them not being able to take care of themselves properly and its finally escalated to the point of being offensive to the neighbors. Do you have a Department of Children and Families in your state? I think they would be the agency that would address a call like this where you are alleging that these folks are not able to care for themselves. Case workers would assess the situation and provide services that might allow them to remedy the situation and stay in the apartment. It may just be an issue of checking their independent living skills. Most of these agencies have a toll free anonymous hotline you can call.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Sounds like a good idea, Allison. Still, the unit owner, who's the father of one of the tenants should be notified and HE should take steps too! Perhaps, for instance, he can afford to have weekly house keeping service in that unit.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 10/25/2015 10:06 AM
Whole new ballgame, Bonnie. You surely have in your CC&Rs or Rules & Regs that Owners can be fined if they or their tenants, etc., damage or soil the common areas, i.e., they can be billed for clean up. But it depends on NE statutes how you conduct the hearing to bill the Owner.

Meantime, surely your PM can have those soiled areas shampooed. Do you have onsite custodians for your common areas? Your PM should have them pull out how much time they're spending on cleaning those areas of the carpet. (Or are the halls not carpeted?)

We do not have onsite custodians for our common areas. What we do have is a contract with a cleaning company to come in emergencies to clean. But one of our Board members and some other owners did not want to wait even a minute to clean the poop of the carpet and laundry room floor. I heard about this after it was already cleaned.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Form Allyson

So you have married neighbors who are mentally challenged and there is a strong odor coming from the apartment aside from her personal hygiene problem? Instead of calling the health department, perhaps this is a question of them not being able to take care of themselves properly and its finally escalated to the point of being offensive to the neighbors. Do you have a Department of Children and Families in your state? I think they would be the agency that would address a call like this where you are alleging that these folks are not able to care for themselves. Case workers would assess the situation and provide services that might allow them to remedy the situation and stay in the apartment. It may just be an issue of checking their independent living skills. Most of these agencies have a toll free anonymous hotline you can call.

Thanks this is a great idea. The reason I keep coming to this site is for help that I have been given on this matter. I simply try to ignore the ___who just tell me to mind my own business.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

So, Bonnie, who DID clean up the mess? And is the owner being billed for the clean up?

I'm curious: you have no regular janitorial service for your common area hallway carpets, your laundry room and perhaps other common area walkways, etc.? ? If not who does clean these areas?

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

No, Bonnie, you misunderstand.

The HOA, Inc. should mind its business. Maintenance and operations.

You, as President, should mind the HOA's business. Maintenance and operations.

You, as a citizen, are free to address any issue as you see fit. But only as a citizen, NOT as a director.

ps. a multistory multiple dwelling structure should have (at least) a handyman/janitor 'on staff'

if not, consider raising assessments to hire one - your 'costs' will probably actually drop in the long run

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

pps. anyone who 'poops' in a public area is, in fact, a public health hazard

said hazard can NOT be properly addressed by a corporate entity (HOA) but SHOULD/MUST be addressed by the appropriate public agency

contact the local 'dept of health' in writing with any photographic evidence and or cleanup invoices and or notarized statements from complainants

if no complainants step up, there are no complaints

not in writing = not in existence

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

ppps. if the poop had NOT been immediately cleaned up then the membership would have taken care of my above issues ALL BY THEMSELVES

they would have been SCREAMING for full time staff to address such issues and or would have called the governmental agencies THEMSELVES

but

fell free to continue with your 'nannyism'

there is a fine line between aid and enabling - your 'members' are becoming senile seniors just like in MY 55+ community

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

pppps.

But one of our Board members .....

Therein lies the issue.
The Director's job duties do NOT include picking poop.
Merely the oversight of the HIRED 'poop picker(s)'.

Should said vendor/employee be expensive, the membership is free to form a full time volunteer committee and/or contact the public authority actually having jurisdiction over said public hazard.

but

It may actually be easier to internet whine and make the poop disappear than to address the actual issue of a 55+ person becoming ill inside a 55+ dwelling full of 55+ers.

Yall had better get used to incontinence and senility - the fact that this PARTICULAR event was rental does NOT mean that it will not reoccur many many times in the future.

Y'all have voluntarily concentrated aging persons inside a multiple dwelling.

As they 'age in place' and senility / disease sets in, what did y'all expect ?

however

BEST of LUCK to Y'ALL

and

LIVE LONG, AND PROSPER

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 10/25/2015 11:19 AM
So, Bonnie, who DID clean up the mess? And is the owner being billed for the clean up?

I'm curious: you have no regular janitorial service for your common area hallway carpets, your laundry room and perhaps other common area walkways, etc.? ? If not who does clean these areas?

we do have a regular janitorial service for our common area hallway carpets and laundry room etc. However they are not on site all the time. They come for about 2 or 3 hours a day for 5 days a week. As I mentioned before our contract states that we can call them in an emergency. In my opinion poop on the carpet is an emergency and no Board member or owner should be cleaning it up. Since I have a little job I go to 5 days a week, I was not in the building when other people were cleaning the mess up and I was told after the fact about it.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

So, what exactly, is your PRESENT involvement?

Director? - call public health

Officer? - call public health

Member? - call public health

Citizen? - call public health AND offer direct assistance to persons ill

IMO: Let the issue sleep. It will sort itself out.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Bonnies, what about your PM? Was he on site?

I as disagree with you PitA, there's no indication that the situation will straighten itself out. And no resident in Bonnie's HOA should have to live with stench-filled common area hallways. It IS the HOA's business since they do have a nuisance clause. But, it does seem that some of Bonnie's concerns haven't materialized, or did take care of themselves, or weren't as bad as she first feared.

Bonnie has not answered my question about whether they have a rule that Owners are responsible for their tenants' (guests' vendors') messes or damage to the common areas. The Owner of the unit should be called to hearings and billed for these problems his tenants are creating.

We did exactly that when an Owner's elderly father had an accident in our lobby rest room. The owner went in to throw the man's underwear in the waste basket, but reported the incident to no one. The PM saw the owner leave the bathroom and when she entered to use it a while later--ugh. He was called o hearing (he didn't attend) and fined for the cost of cleanup.

In 9 years, I think we've fined 2-3 dog owners whose pets have peed in the elevators (caught on camera). Same thing--reported the incidents to no one and didn't bother to use paper towels from the nearby lobby level restrooms.

Hmmm, I guess Bonnie also hasn't told us if they have a hearing protocol and fine schedule.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 10/25/2015 4:44 PM
Bonnies, what about your PM? Was he on site?

I as disagree with you PitA, there's no indication that the situation will straighten itself out. And no resident in Bonnie's HOA should have to live with stench-filled common area hallways. It IS the HOA's business since they do have a nuisance clause. But, it does seem that some of Bonnie's concerns haven't materialized, or did take care of themselves, or weren't as bad as she first feared.

Bonnie has not answered my question about whether they have a rule that Owners are responsible for their tenants' (guests' vendors') messes or damage to the common areas. The Owner of the unit should be called to hearings and billed for these problems his tenants are creating.

We did exactly that when an Owner's elderly father had an accident in our lobby rest room. The owner went in to throw the man's underwear in the waste basket, but reported the incident to no one. The PM saw the owner leave the bathroom and when she entered to use it a while later--ugh. He was called o hearing (he didn't attend) and fined for the cost of cleanup.

In 9 years, I think we've fined 2-3 dog owners whose pets have peed in the elevators (caught on camera). Same thing--reported the incidents to no one and didn't bother to use paper towels from the nearby lobby level restrooms.

Hmmm, I guess Bonnie also hasn't told us if they have a hearing protocol and fine schedule.

We have notified the owner that he will be responsible for additional cleaning costs caused by his daughter-in-law. we do have hearing protocol and a fine schedule but to date we have no fines related to the nuisance clause. We do have a rule our documents that owners are responsible for their tenants' (guest' vendors')
to answer another question our PM is not on site. Maintenance from our PM is on site once a week and as needed.

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