Homeowners' legal right

Started by JohnK30 • 21 replies • 1494 views

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JohnK30 (Texas)
Posts: 6

Posted:

If a homeowners' contractor damages a common property (side walk in this example), can homeowner offer a repair? HOA property manager already ordered a fix with their contractor for the side walk and sent me a bill. I was told as a homeowner I can't hire my contractor and offer a repair. And basically I just pay the bill the way it was presented to me. I don't even know when they came out and fixed it. I called property manager after my contractor damaged and asked them to come out and see what is needed and asked them to send me a quote and told them that I will get a quote from couple of contractors. Instead of getting a quote they just came in and fixed and sent me a bill. It is not a huge dollar amount only $450 but it is about principle. Can HOA/property manager just do that? Should i ask to provide a proof of repair?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

John

My belief is what the Management Company did was proper. I know I would want a contractor I knew and preferred. Not that your contractor would not do it properly but I know how mine will do it.

Also it seems the repair was done while you will still consdering what to do so time could have played a role.

JohnK30 (Texas)
Posts: 6

Posted:

Actually, the property manager ordered a repair the same day I notified him. I notified him and asked for a quote in the morning on my way to work and when I arrived home it was fixed and they sent me a bill the next day. Do I have a right to ask for justification of the bill and provide a proof of work or is it something I have to accept and just pay? It could have been cheaper I don't know but basically it was about 8 inch long and 2 inch wide rectangular part of the cement edge came off. I feel like at least he should have notified me that he is doing it the same day and how much it would cost, instead I am being presented a bill and threatening letter to stop asking questions about the bill or he will put a lien.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

John,

You can certainly offer, but the Board doesn't have to accept it.

The MC acts on behalf of the Board as outlined in the contract between the Association and the MC.

Since your contractor, who was acting on your behalf, damaged the property, then you can seek reimbursement from your contractor. However, you still need to pay the bill provided by your Association unless you desire to challenge the amount of the bill as being excessive.

I agree that $450 is reasonable for a small concrete replacement job.

As a side note:
I suspect that you see the minor issue with the two statements you made:

"I don't even know when they came out and fixed it. "
". . . and when I arrived home it was fixed and they sent me a bill the next day"

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 351

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnK30 on 10/17/2015 7:39 AM
Do I have a right to ask for justification of the bill and provide a proof of work .

Yes.

JohnK30 (Texas)
Posts: 6

Posted:

Sorry, when I said " I don't even know when they came out and fixed it." I meant I wasn't around and did not witness anything, reported a break in the morning and when arrive home it is fixed and was sent a bill next day. Do the board or the management company can send me a bill of any amount and in that case do I have any options to challenge? My contractor did offer to bring his guy to fix or offer about $250. Again I am not too concerned about the amount but I am pissed on principle. I am being told that all the questioning I am doing is futile and just need to pay otherwise a threat of a lien.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

John,

Hindsight of course would have been for your contractor to have just fixed it and not inform anyone of the initial damage.

Should the Association have worked with you? Yes.
Is the Association required to work with you? No.

You can certainly ask for the actual receipt. Indicate that you are willing to pay for the repair but desire to see the actual receipt for the work done.

Another option is to bypass the MC and go directly to the Board by requesting a meeting with them over the issue (and specify what the issue really is, not that it was fixed but that you could have had it fixed less expensively). Perhaps a compromise can be worked out.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Oh,

If you meet with the Board, bring proof -
written bids from other contractors.
Perhaps your contractor in person or a statement on their letterhead.

JohnK30 (Texas)
Posts: 6

Posted:

I did get a receipt basically, $100 visit charge, $280 labor, $35 parts and rest tax roughly 450. But my point is can they just send me a bill for any amount they get from their contractor and just slap it to my account and expect me to pay?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

The answer is yes.

Your CC&Rs, most likely have a statement along the following lines:

In the event that there is an obvious need for maintenance or repair of the Properties referred to in Article 1, Section 2, [the boundaries of the development] including the Common Areas, which is caused through the willful or negligent act of the Owner, his family or guests or invitees, . . ., the Board of Directors may cause such maintenance or repair to be performed. The cost of such maintenance or repair shall be added to and become a part of the assessment to which such Lot is subject.

You should read your CC&Rs and see if there was a time frame for you to make the repairs prior to the Association stepping in to make the repairs. Our CC&Rs provide for 30 days. Your CC&Rs may or may not have a similar time frame.

JohnK30 (Texas)
Posts: 6

Posted:

From timeline perspective, from the time my contractor caused the damage it was about 2 days before I reported, the day I reported, they came out and fixed by the time arrive back from work.

Yes my CC&R has a language just like that, basically it says a damage caused by unit owner (or their associates) unit owner is responsible and pay as remedial assessment, however there is no explicit section where it says the repair has to be done only by the management company or the board and there is no wording staying unit owner can't offer repair.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

If the section doesn't specify a procedure or allow abc, vs. xyz, then the Board is free to establish their own procedures and interpret said section. Until such an interpretation is challenged and ruled on by the courts, then the interpretation of the Board will stand.

Now, I understand the principal you are fighting for.
You need to ask yourself if this is the issue you which to use to fight for that principal.

If you do, you may do better by getting yourself elected to the board so you can be part of the decision process and more easily make changes to policies and procedures, as it will be far less expensive then a legal battle.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Does TX laws require that the Board call you to a hearing first before they bill you for the damage repair? (CA does)

Does your Board's contract with your PM permit him to bill you without the Board approving the repair? (Ours does not)

So, while I agree with others that it was proper for the repair to be made with a contractor of the PM's recommendation, I don't know if your board and/or PM followed legal procedures or even your own HOA's procedures for doing so.

But even if your HOA acted improperly, I wouldn't raise a fuss about it. Most HOAs a have a list of trusted vendors whom they rely on the work in the common areas. Owners don't get to pick who makes the fix to a common area.

Still, if the PM exceeded their contractual authority or didn't comply with TX law, this might suggest bigger problems than a small repair bill.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

You should be thankful the 'Board' did the repair, you are now COMPLETELY off the hook in the event of the repair 'failing'.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

Their method removes the possibility of future 'drama'.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

So what happens if during those two days someone trips and falls due to the damage caused by your contractor?

The property faces liability.

The MC acted quickly to make the necessary repairs. Which I find reasonable. The fact they did not wait for your approval as to price and the scheduling of these repIrs is f no consequence. You fix the problem and then settle the other details.

JohnK30 (Texas)
Posts: 6

Posted:

JonD1,

I agree with you on liability if something were to happen within those 48 hours, however from a legal stand point with the facts (no assumptions) I am trying to figure out if the management company and the board acted properly and if it is worth legal battle just because the behavior and responses we normally get from the board and the management company are usually rude. In fact few home owners I know describe them as bully.

Additionally, upon further inspection of the receipt I received from management company's contractor, the receipt has a line item (some minor patch work and inspection) of completely unrelated common property on a different street of the subdivision.
1) So the invoice has first line item as visit charge of $100.
2) Repair of my side walk the next line item but no charge on that line
3) then next line is the patch work on unrelated property but no charge on that line (it says the local supervisor asked technician to look this additional item)
4) then two line items for two technicians' labor at $140/hour,
5) then few line items for parts/material total $35 and tax.

So seems like I am being asked to pay the 3rd party work, in all honesty that item might be 5 minute work but legally I shouldn't pay for the visit charge and all labor again just on principle and legal stand point.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Now we are closing in on the real issue. John believes the BOD is rude and they bully people thus maybe he is looking to pick a fight.

That is quite common. People come on here asking telling about something then as it goes on, their contempt for the BOD comes out.

I urge John to hire a lawyer and sue.

JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880

Posted:

My understanding is that contractors are responsible for their actions and have to pay for damage caused by them (in most cases), not the person who happened to hire the contractor. So send the bill to your contractor.

Yes, you are also obligated by your governing docs to pay, but the contractor would still have the ultimate responsibility.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnK30 on 10/17/2015 2:37 PM
JonD1,

I agree with you on liability if something were to happen within those 48 hours, however from a legal stand point with the facts (no assumptions) I am trying to figure out if the management company and the board acted properly and if it is worth legal battle just because the behavior and responses we normally get from the board and the management company are usually rude. In fact few home owners I know describe them as bully.

Additionally, upon further inspection of the receipt I received from management company's contractor, the receipt has a line item (some minor patch work and inspection) of completely unrelated common property on a different street of the subdivision.
1) So the invoice has first line item as visit charge of $100.
2) Repair of my side walk the next line item but no charge on that line
3) then next line is the patch work on unrelated property but no charge on that line (it says the local supervisor asked technician to look this additional item)
4) then two line items for two technicians' labor at $140/hour,
5) then few line items for parts/material total $35 and tax.

So seems like I am being asked to pay the 3rd party work, in all honesty that item might be 5 minute work but legally I shouldn't pay for the visit charge and all labor again just on principle and legal stand point.

So John is it an explanation of those charges you are looking for or grounds for some run in with this board.

Here lawyers run about $300 per hour that gets you 1 1/2 hours before you exceed the billed amount.

You claim not to have a problem with the charges. It was the billing and timing of repairs.

Now suddenly what " a few owners describe as a rude board" is the issue.

From the description you made it seems unclear how you now arrive at the conclusion you are being asked to pay for third party work.
If you have questions about the breakdown of the charges call the contractor for an explanation.

If you wish to engage in a battle with the boRd over the cost of damages caused by your contractor to common property which you now dispute call your lawyer.
Did you pay your contractor forvtheircwork in full? And if so why knowing it was their actions that damaged the sidewalk.
Sounds like you are debating a point that does not exist.

CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457

Posted:

What "principle" are you referring to that you feel is so important to you that you want to take your MC and HOA to task over?

You called them with what happened and they took care of the problem. And now, your upset at the speed in which they fixed it because they didn't get your prior permission or approval on the how and how much to fix a part of the common area that is not your property?

I've been lurking here on this forum for a bit and this is the first post I've seen where the MC actually did their job, in lightening speed mind you, only to still have a pissed off homeowner.

Dear God isn't HOA life in America just grand!!!

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

life in an american hoa (particularly a 55+) can best be described as:

self inflicted full body sun burn - at best

or

slow mental death due to suffocation by toric ka-ka - at worst

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