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MG5 (Florida)
Posts: 39
Posted:
Hello,

I have been getting a series of violation notices in regards to my landscaping over the past year from the HOA's property management company here in Florida. I am a home owner in a single family development. The notices first started in regards to having my shed visible from the street. The shed was installed by the previous homeowner 3-4 years before I purchased the property. YOU CAN SKIP TO THE QUESTION BELOW IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO READ THE BACK STORY BELOW.

1.) First notice was to remove the shed, as the hedge (which blocked it view) had become too thin to obscure the view.
A.) My response was to add 4 potted palms to block the view of the shed from the street
B.) No response from board

2.) Three months goes by, then a second notice. This time, place the palms into the ground or replace the hedge or remove the shed.
A.) My response was to call a utility marking company....found that I could not dig in this area due to underground utilities.
B.) Board response was to change the pots from plastic to something better
C.) I got more upscale pots that look like ceramic
D.) no response from board

3.) Three months goes by, a third notice. Change the pots to ceramic or remove the shed with a threat of a fine in 15 days.
A.) My response was to question where in the governing documents that it lists that ceramic potted plants are the only allowed pot type.
B.) No response from the board

4.) Three more months goes by, a forth notice by email only. "due to your disregard for community rules, you must be present for a fining committee hearing in 14 days"
A.) My response was to again question where in any written document does it specify the pot type for plants. I read all the documents and was unable to find this listed. It appears that neither the management company nor the board can find it either because it does not exist and they have not sent it to me after 3 written requests.
B.)Board response was "we have full arc control over the exterior of your home"
C.) My response, where does it say this in any written document
D.) waiting on a board response

MY QUESTION; 1.) Can the board fine me for a "violation" that is not listed in ANY written documentation?
B.) If yes, can I claim selective enforcement as I found nearly 60 percent of the properties in the neighborhood to be in "violation" of the same "rule" they are trying to enforce against me
2.) Can the board form a fining committee if no language exists in the association documents relating to one?
3.) It appears that FL law no longer allows liens based on fines in single family housing, so how does the board expect to collect fines if their legal budget is less than $1500 per year?

Thank you!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MG5 on 10/07/2015 8:38 PM

MY QUESTION; 1.) Can the board fine me for a "violation" that is not listed in ANY written documentation?

Yes and No.

Although the Association is saying the pots need to be ceramic (and that is what you are looking at), the CC&Rs typically specify that prior approval is required for any exterior changes. You said that you suggested a change and the Association didn't reply - Hence you did not receive approval. I suspect that this is what the Association will go with (not that the pots are of a specific material, but that you did not receive prior approval).

Quote:
Posted By MG5 on 10/07/2015 8:38 PM

B.) If yes, can I claim selective enforcement as I found nearly 60 percent of the properties in the neighborhood to be in "violation" of the same "rule" they are trying to enforce against me

You could, but keep in mind that selective enforcement is a defense for the courts.
It may or may not sway the Board.

My suggestion is to take a few pictures of the other property that have non-ceramic pots.
Bring those pictures, along with the addresses, to the meeting.
Politely (as you get more flies with honey) explain that you desire to comply with the governing documents as written. That, once the Board made you aware of an issue you replied and made attempted to comply. You still desire to comply. However, you also desire to be treated the same as everyone else. Since x number of properties have plantings in non-ceramic planters, and you expect that all of those were approved as there has been no enforcement action against them that you are aware of, that you don't understand why the Association is treating you differently by specifying a specific type of planter months after you contacted the Association. Then off handedley add that it's starting to feel like you have been selected for enforcement issues that are not being enforced on others (i.e. the planters). Specify again that you desire to comply with the governing documents as written and have tried to do so.

Quote:
Posted By MG5 on 10/07/2015 8:38 PM

2.) Can the board form a fining committee if no language exists in the association documents relating to one?

The Board has the authority to form any committee they see a need for.

FL law specifies that the hearing be before a committee of "at least three members appointed by the board who are not officers, directors, or employees of the association, or the spouse, parent, child, brother, or sister of an officer, director, or employee. If the committee, by majority vote, does not approve a proposed fine or suspension, it may not be imposed. The role of the committee is limited to determining whether to confirm or reject the fine or suspension levied by the board. If the board of administration imposes a fine or suspension, the association must provide written notice of such fine or suspension by mail or hand delivery to the parcel owner and, if applicable, to any tenant, licensee, or invitee of the parcel owner."

Quote:
Posted By MG5 on 10/07/2015 8:38 PM

3.) It appears that FL law no longer allows liens based on fines in single family housing, so how does the board expect to collect fines if their legal budget is less than $1500 per year?

Although, FL 720.305 (2) does say that the Association may not institute a lien for fines, there are other options:

1) Bring a civil law suit against you for the collection of fines. If they win, they may then file a lien based on the judgement (which is different then simply filing a lien based on fines).

2) Suspend your use of common amenities.

3) Suspend your voting privileges.

4) Apply any monetary payments first to any fines/charges and then to assessments. Hence, you could be paying off the fine and end up being delinquent in paying assessments (which can be the basis for a lien).
Note: Although this practice is common for many Associations it may be limited by State Statutes. You would need to review your State Statutes and, if not understood, seek the advice of a local attorney.

Again, I encourage you to be prepared and polite at the hearing. Show the documentation you have for everything. Mention your willingness to comply but the lack of response from the Association except for finding fault with a solution weeks or months after the fact is making it difficult.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Sounds to me the OP here is set on a corse of conflict with their board.

Sounds like a rather simple request change the material used in the pots. Now 4 or more exchanges have taken place and still the issue remains unresolved.

Now the OP wishes to litigate their position by the use of selective enforcement defense wonder where that gem came from.

So now there is a request to attend a meeting about this rather simple violation. But rather than correct the issue this Op plans to debate who,meh at, when, where and why. Other a few dollars in pots. Perhaps the board has contacted some of the other owners. Perhaps like this OPmsimple acts to conform to the appearance around the property are just to difficult.

Yes, they can impose fines. And yes you can go to court and see just whether they have the authority to request you remove the plastic pots and replace them with ceramic. I have to wonder which course would in the end be cheaper and less work????????

But yes explain to the board how they can't do things their way becuase you say so and see how long this takes to clear up and how much it costs in the end.

All over some flower pots. Certainly, this board has nothing more pressing than to go back and forth over replacing pots. Must have been a slow month.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Agree with Tim and Jon.

Also, in your shoes I might ask for copies of the violation notices that were sent to the prior owner. When you purchased the home, did you receive any notice of a pre-existing violation?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
MG5 (Florida)
Posts: 39
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 10/08/2015 5:46 AM
Agree with Tim and Jon.

Also, in your shoes I might ask for copies of the violation notices that were sent to the prior owner. When you purchased the home, did you receive any notice of a pre-existing violation?

Good idea. I was never notified of any existing violations when I purchased the home.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
There was no pre-existing condition.

Reading the initial posting:

(expect) Previous owner requested permission to build shed.

(expect) Association said yes providing it was shielded from view

(expect) Previous owner planted hedge to shield view

OP purchased home.

Over time the hedge used to shield the shed from view.

Association sent notice to remove shed because the hedge became too thin to fully shield

OP added potted palms to shield shed from view

Association said to plant the palms or replant the hedge (likely because the palms can be moved)

OP contacted miss utility and OP determined that the palms can not be planted and (expect) did not want to replant the hedge.

Board said fine, but use better planters (vs. plastic ones being used).

OP purchased a better planter (unknown what type of material - perhaps still plastic?)

Board said use ceramic pots or remove shed.

OP refused/ignored Boards decision and chose to question authority for Board to specify material for the planter. (Board did not reply to question)

Board sent notice of hearing for failing to comply with the exterior change as approved (i.e. the ceramic planters)

Again, no pre-existing condition. Simply age of plants used to shield and choices made by both the OP and the Board.

Based on what has been posted, it sounds like the Board has been somewhat reasonable.
It also sounds like the OP has tried to work with the Board. However, since there was no immediate communication, the choices made ends with a hearing for potential monetary penalties.

MG5 (Florida)
Posts: 39
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 10/08/2015 7:12 AM
There was no pre-existing condition.

Reading the initial posting:

(expect) Previous owner requested permission to build shed.

(expect) Association said yes providing it was shielded from view

(expect) Previous owner planted hedge to shield view

OP purchased home.

Over time the hedge used to shield the shed from view.

Association sent notice to remove shed because the hedge became too thin to fully shield

OP added potted palms to shield shed from view

Association said to plant the palms or replant the hedge (likely because the palms can be moved)

OP contacted miss utility and OP determined that the palms can not be planted and (expect) did not want to replant the hedge.

Board said fine, but use better planters (vs. plastic ones being used).

OP purchased a better planter (unknown what type of material - perhaps still plastic?)

Board said use ceramic pots or remove shed.

OP refused/ignored Boards decision and chose to question authority for Board to specify material for the planter. (Board did not reply to question)

Board sent notice of hearing for failing to comply with the exterior change as approved (i.e. the ceramic planters)

Again, no pre-existing condition. Simply age of plants used to shield and choices made by both the OP and the Board.

Based on what has been posted, it sounds like the Board has been somewhat reasonable.
It also sounds like the OP has tried to work with the Board. However, since there was no immediate communication, the choices made ends with a hearing for potential monetary penalties.


To add to this,
I have requested that the board let me know in writing that changing the pots to ceramic will solve the issue and no more violations will be issued. I have yet to receive this from the board, thus I'm not open to the board constantly wanting something different every 3 months and thus the need for this thread. I'm also not pleased with being targeted for a violation that 60 percent of the other homes are currently violating.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
MG%

That have told you what they want to make this all go away so why not just do it?
MG5 (Florida)
Posts: 39
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 10/08/2015 7:27 AM
MG%

That have told you what they want to make this all go away so why not just do it?

Because it will change in 3 months and then change again in another 3 months. There needs to be a stopping point.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MG5 on 10/08/2015 7:25 AM
Again, no pre-existing condition. Simply age of plants used to shield and choices made by both the OP and the Board.

Missed that.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

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