💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

TomS30 (Ohio)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Sorry for the long post in advance. I will try to give as much info as possible.

Overview:
State of Ohio. Single family subdivision.
Developer has followed all state laws. HOA was formed and documents filed before the first property was sold. Deed restrictions include CCs & R. Developer has followed all state and county laws.

2 common lots exist. 1 is for recreational purposes, the second holds the retention pond for the subdivision. Both lots have been deeded to the HOA. When first meeting was held by developer residents refused to elect officers. At the 2nd meeting the deveopler appointed officers. Officers have since resigned (2 moved away) due to lack of cooperation and a couple of rude and uniformed residents intimidating them.

At this time the HOA is responsible for maintentance and insurance of common lots. A couple of volunteers are cutting the grass. No insurance (required by Ohio law) is in place. No dues have ever been collected. The appointed officers did not do anything other than talk to the neighbors and try to see how much everyone would agree to pay. No dues were ever collected.

I held a neighborhood meeting at my home to discuss drainage issues and had the county engineer present specifically for that purpose. He mentioned the HOA and a resident claimed the meeting was about the HOA and when I said it is not he called me a liar several times before leaving at my insistance. Most of the residents don't care, and the ones that do are being intimidated by a couple of bullys who yell and act stupid. One resident is also quietly (he won't say anything in front of a group) going neighbor to neighbor and giving incorrect information as to whether the HOA is legal.

Any ideas short of legal action? One of the problems is that the HOA has no money so legal advise would have to be paid for by those supporting the HOA and willing to put up their own money to force the issue.

GeorgeR8 (Arizona)
Posts: 182
Posted:
You need an attorney. I can't see fixing this without legal action.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
If the developer did everything proper, then there should be some money somewhere.

My advice, petition the court for a receiver.
Receivership should be the last course of action but I think you will need said action to protect the members who simply don't want to belong.

The other option is to petition the City/County to make the area a special tax district so the City/county will maintain the storm water pond and, perhaps, the playground.
TomS30 (Ohio)
Posts: 9
Posted:
The developer chose not to collect any dues while he had control of the common properties. He paid all costs of maintaining those lots until he deeded them to the HOA.

A little more info. There are 33 of 66 lots that the developer still owns and are not built on. The remaining lots are for sale as a group or individually. The developer who was also the builder for all but 1 home has stated he does not intend to build any more homes.

He has been treated poorly by some of the residents during his attempts to turn over control. I don't beleive he has any interest in getting any further involved at this point.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Encourage the builder to sell the lots and transfer the declarant rights.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Tom you need competent legal advice ASAP. I'm not an attorney but you should look up the term Joint and Several Liability. Now this is just my lay interpretation of it but say Little Johnny who doesn't even live in the neighborhood should somehow fall into the retaining pond and drown, what would happen? Now in most cases the parents would sue the HOA and if there was a judgement, the HOA's insurance would pay up to the limit, then the HOA (all the members) for the balance. But since the HOA isn't functioning they would sue you and your neighbors individually and each of you could be on the hook for a judgement. As Tim pointed out in his first post, a receiver might be the way to go, if nothing else, it would be a wake-up call for your neighbors.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
TomS30 (Ohio)
Posts: 9
Posted:
GlenL,

I'm with you on this. The County engineer said exactly the same thing to the
group (less than 1/2) of the residents that showed up to the meeting about
drainage. Nobody seemed to care.

He also read from the deed restrictions (and county subdivision regulations)
which included a section of the county's right to server notice upon the HOA for not
maintaining the retention pond. This gives the county the right to force the
HOA to mainatin the pond (it needs to be cleaned and dredged some to get back to design specs. part of our drainage problem).

The county can sue and then hire a contractor to come in and do what is necessary. Costs would be assesed to each home owner. However, additional court costs and legal fees can be added which would end up costing more than taking care of it ourselves.

What a mess, and I only have a handful out of 33 owners who are willing to listen. As mentioned above a couple vocal ones who don't understand and don't want to understand who intimdate others and spread false info.
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
Tom,

When you say "Officers", do you actually mean "Board Members". Typically they end up being one and the same; however, it's your Board of Directors that makes the decisions. The Officers carry out those decisions. As mentioned, typically the Board Members also hold the Officer position, but that isn't necessarily a requirement or how it happens everywhere.

I have to question your developer's move to turn the HOA over to homeowners. Read your documents and laws to see if him turning it over as he did is even permitted. He still owns half of the lots. Typically only when a certain percentage of lots have been conveyed from developer to homeowners, or when a certain amount of time has passed from establishment of the HOA, is the developer allowed to transition control of the HOA to the homeowners. He may be trying to do this prematurely as an attempt to avoid additional financial obligation to the HOA.

If the transition has been done appropriately, then you either need to establish a Board that can enforce the documents or you need to petition the court for a receiver as others have suggested which will likely be a more expensive method (for everyone) to the same eventual result. I might suggest trying to establish a Board by following procedures in your docs and state law. It may take a few meetings to get quorum to elect the Board, but usually there is a process for reducing the quorum requirement with subsequent meetings. And now that I think about it, your developer holds 50% of the votes. As long as he is present, another appropriately called and attended meeting for a Board election should be simple. You just need willing Board Members to seek election and stand up to the few bullies that exist.

Once you have a proper Board, you can begin enforcing the documents which should include the collection of assessments and punishments to those who decide not to pay. What needs to be done will be extremely difficult and taxing to those who step up, but people either need to step up or it will only get increasingly difficult, risky, and costly for everyone.
TomS30 (Ohio)
Posts: 9
Posted:
In Ohio I beleive they are one in the same. There are no board members
and/or officers at this time. Ohio law requires that officers be elected and that the HOA does a minimum of insuring the common properties and the officers and maintaning any common properties.

The CC&Rs state 65% of lots or 4 years after first house is sold is when home owners can take control whichever occurs first. The first house was sold in 2006. The developer filed HOA as non-profit in state of ohio in 2012. Then transferred the 2 common properties to the HOA. As stated above he tried to get residents to elect officers and was not sucessful.

Since he transferred the common lots to the HOA he has no longer been maintaining them. He still cuts the grass on the lots he owns peridoically, but does not in any way maintain the common properties. Although I think he must be paying the taxes on them which is only a few
dollars per year. The count auditor site shows them up to date.

As I said everything I have read and researched is that he has followed laws and proper
procedures.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Tom

It appears you are still under Declarant control. What is your opinion?
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Proposed Plan of Action.
1. Get a quote from an insurance company on what your premiums would be for the coverage you need.
2. Get an estimate of maintenance costs for the common areas.
3. Find out how much it will cost to regain corporate status for the HOA.
4. Add 10% for administrative costs.
5. Add it all up.
6. Send a bill to the Developer for half. He owns half the lots. He should pay his half.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
TomS30 (Ohio)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 10/07/2015 10:48 AM
Proposed Plan of Action.
1. Get a quote from an insurance company on what your premiums would be for the coverage you need.
2. Get an estimate of maintenance costs for the common areas.
3. Find out how much it will cost to regain corporate status for the HOA.
4. Add 10% for administrative costs.
5. Add it all up.
6. Send a bill to the Developer for half. He owns half the lots. He should pay his half.

In the CC&Rs and I think in State of Ohio the declarant is not required to pay
dues. Class A members (homeowners) are required to pay dues, Class B members
(declarant) is not.
TomS30 (Ohio)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 10/07/2015 10:46 AM
Tom

It appears you are still under Declarant control. What is your opinion?

Perhaps. But everything I can find online - County recorder records,
auditor records, State of Ohio Secretary of State leads me to believe the
following:

Developer filed all proper forms to establish the Home owners association before
the first home was sold. I see CC&Rs filed for every lot in the subdivsion prior
to the sale of the first home. I beleive this establishes the HOA per Ohio and
county law.

At a time legally within the CC&Rs the developer filed with the Sate of Ohio the
xxx Homeowners association as a non-profit llc in state of Ohio for the stated purpose
of maintainng the common properties. Since there were no officers at the time he is
listed as the agent.

The developer transfered the 2 common lots from his development company to the
xxx homeowners association on the same day he filed the non-profit for the HOA.

County auditor records list the xxx HOA as the owner of the common lots.

The deveoper held a meeting informing the residents of the transfer of property and that
officers would need to be elected and maintenance of the common area would become
the responsibilty of the HOA. Residents refused to vote at this meeting and argued with
the developer about wanting an HOA. He tried to explain the facts and most did not want to listen. They still think they can choose whether there is an HOA. They can not under Ohio
Law. And, new Ohio law states it requires unanimous agreement to dissolve HOA. Even if they
could some don't beleive that the deed restrictions and CC&Rs remain binding. They do.

A second meeting was held and since the developer has 50% of the vote he was able to
appoint officers. The officers have since resigned. However, none of the things that should have been done by the officers were done. They did not establish a mailing address for the HOA, did not set or collect any dues, did not insure themselves or the common property.

Since there were officers for a short period of time and with the other things mentioned above I have a hard time saying the HOA is under declarent control. However, in the respect
that the declarent still holds 50% of the votes nothing can be done without him.

He has pretty much washed his hands of this. He was treated poorly by the same few residents and has since put the remainng lots of the subdivision up for sale. He says he will not build any more houses.

As far as I know he has not attempted to call another meeting or appoint any new officers.
With what has transpired in the meetings I don't know if he could get 3 people to take on
becoming officers.

If I were him I would take back control, notify everyone that dues (max $300 per year) will be collected starting Jan 1 2016 and hire a managment company to oversee until he can sell the remaining lots to another developer. I don't think he will do that.

In the meantime, all homeowners are at risk by not having the common properties insured,
which is and has always been my main concern.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Tom, what about you? Can you get enough people to volunteer to serve with YOU on a Board? Absent that, apply for a receiver ASAP.

You might want to let your fellow homeowners know that a receiver is an expensive option. The Receiver will set assessments, hire people to maintain the common areas, buy insurance etc, probably hire a MC to take care of the day to day operations AND this is the big one pay his court approved salary. He will set the assessments in perpetuity or until enough of you show you are adult enough to live up to the contract you (collective you, not you specifically) voluntarily signed when you purchased your home.

That or you can try to legally disband the HOA which would involve getting your taxing district to accept responsibility for the common elements which if they do would probably result in all of you being put in a "Special Taxing District" to pay for the upkeep. In other words the HOA fees you are not now paying would go to the City/County/Township with absolutely no input on how they are spent.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TomS30 on 10/07/2015 11:31 AM
Posted By NpS on 10/07/2015 10:48 AM
Proposed Plan of Action.
1. Get a quote from an insurance company on what your premiums would be for the coverage you need.
2. Get an estimate of maintenance costs for the common areas.
3. Find out how much it will cost to regain corporate status for the HOA.
4. Add 10% for administrative costs.
5. Add it all up.
6. Send a bill to the Developer for half. He owns half the lots. He should pay his half.


In the CC&Rs and I think in State of Ohio the declarant is not required to pay
dues. Class A members (homeowners) are required to pay dues, Class B members
(declarant) is not.


If the common areas have been conveyed to the HOA, and if the developer has no intent to complete the development or sell the remaining lots, you might be able to legally strip him of his status of Declarant. Why should he get a free ride if the rest of you are going to be stuck with double the cost. But of course, you would have to discuss your options with a lawyer. Receivership may be the better way to go - but I do think that the developer should have a fire lit under his butt as well.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
TomS30 (Ohio)
Posts: 9
Posted:
I'm not sure if anyone else would volunteer. As you might expect I have
apparently become become a polarizing figure and having me as an officer
would probably cause more harm than good.

The previously appointed officers were driven from office by rude and uncooperative
residents. However, no one else seems to want to even do a little research to
understand the HOA laws or the responsibilties and don't seem to care about
the potential risk of not insuring the common properties.

I was hoping I could find a way to force the issue without getting a lawyer involved.
One of the big problems is that no dues have ever been collected. So even if I could
get a couple others to form a board we would have no money to work with until we could
begin collecting yearly fees per the CC&Rs. I think all hell would break loose if we
formed a board and then sent out bills on January 1st. I'm sure that would get some people's
attention, I would also predict it might result in a lawsuit.

The developer is unwilling to help in any way with organizing another meeting, trying to explain the law etc. In fact, those that don't like me dislike him even more.

I'm not even sure the handful of residents that understand or are willing to listen
would be willing to group together to absorb the cost of hiring a lawyer to help try
to resolve the issue.

Maybe the county will serve notice upon the HOA for not maintaining the retention pond. Perhaps that would bring more people to the table.

I appreciate all the info and suggestions I have gotten so far. I guess I'm going to have to
decide how much of my money and perhaps standing in the subdivision I'm willing to risk to
force the issue.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TomS30 on 10/08/2015 5:58 AM
Maybe the county will serve notice upon the HOA for not maintaining the retention pond. Perhaps that would bring more people to the table.

Zero likelihood.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Good luck, Tom. That sounds like an awful situation. Apathy usually takes a while to settle in for a new HOA but yours seems to have achieved peak-apathy even before the developer is out of the picture. Yikes. You might be able to petition for a receiver without hiring an attorney.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Ahh the old somebody else should do it while I sit a wring my hands excuse. While you continue to do nothing, you should contact your attorney and insurance company on how best to mitigate your exposure. After all winter is coming and Little Johnny is itching to learn how to ice-skate on your not quite frozen retention pond. In the mean time I imagine it will come to a head the next time someone tries to sell their property and find they can't because of this mishigas.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Tom

I am not sure this is the answer but give it some thought. The Declarant can appoint a BOD and the BOD can commence billing members for dues. Might result in a he!! of a fight, but it is one way to do it.
TomS30 (Ohio)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 10/08/2015 2:20 PM
Ahh the old somebody else should do it while I sit a wring my hands excuse. While you continue to do nothing, you should contact your attorney and insurance company on how best to mitigate your exposure. After all winter is coming and Little Johnny is itching to learn how to ice-skate on your not quite frozen retention pond. In the mean time I imagine it will come to a head the next time someone tries to sell their property and find they can't because of this mishigas.

Am I reading this wrong or are you chastising me for doing nothing?
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 10/08/2015 2:20 PM
After all winter is coming and Little Johnny is itching to learn how to ice-skate on your not quite frozen retention pond.


Insurance is a magnet for lawyers. In a lawyer's mind, the merits of your injury case is directly proportional to the amount of insurance coverage. A property owner has no liability for injury sustained by a child whose parents failed to supervise him while he went skating on thin ice. Insure that property, however, and sooner or later some slick lawyer will try to collect a windfall. Don't insure it and no one gets sued.

Quote:

In the mean time I imagine it will come to a head the next time someone tries to sell their property and find they can't because of this mishigas.


No. The seller will claim there is no HOA. If the price is right, the seller's insistence that there is no HOA will trump the recorded deed restrictions and public records showing an incorporated HOA. Someday the buyer will get a nasty surprise but by then the seller will be long gone.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here