Overall Costs for Converting Gas Service to Individual Meters

Started by DeniseM6 • 11 replies • 2382 views

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DeniseM6 (Michigan)
Posts: 4

Posted:

I live in an 81-unit condominium which gas service is included in association fees. We have serious delinquencies in our community which are causing financial problems in keeping our budget and paying bills. I live in Southfield, Michigan and want to find out who do I contact to find out overall costs to convert the gas service to individual meters for the 81-unit condos. What have been some best practices or cost effective solutions of other condos to change to individual meters. We have increased association fees in the past year, and we need to find a cost savings solution. Also want to find out if there are any types of programs where condos can get financial assistance in the conversion of gas meters? Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Try your local gas company.

One of the local gas companies in the area I live actually has a web page concerning this type of work.

You might also look at performing an internet search on master meter conversions or sub metering gas

Additionally, local gas contractors may be able to provide a bid and time frame for the work (as I suspect you will need to turn the gas back on at the end of each day's work).

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

We are a high rise condo and did a little checking on sub metering water some years ago. But the cost was huge and not worth it in our case.

Is the idea that with individuals paying for their own gas, your HOA as a whole will save money? Do you have gas heating in units?

Do your documents allow you to withdraw amenity privileges from delinquent owners ? That can nudge some into becoming current IF you have amenities that are worth suspending the use of.

DeniseM6 (Michigan)
Posts: 4

Posted:

I will check with my local gas company for info and do the suggested search. Currently we do not have the ability to withhold amenities from co-owners except they cannot reserve the use of the clubhouse or nominate themselves to become member of the board of directors if they are delinquent. Is there anyone that was successful in changing gas service to individual meters? Would love to hear from you. Thanks.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Denise, first you need to check your documents to see if this is something you can do. The units were sold with certain things included in the assessments and you may first have to amend the documents before you can sub-meter. Our documents specifically allow it but we must calculate how much of the monthly assessment is involved and lower the assessment accordingly.

Also you should check with your HOA's attorney, if the HOA is doing the sub-metering, they may not have the power to shut off the service for nonpayment like a utility does, depending on the law in your state.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Denise

I believe in many state that withhold necessary utilities is against the law.

Individual meters are good for a fairer distribution of costs but leave it go at that.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Hi Denise

A few more things to consider:

1. What will it cost to retrofit your condo to individual meters? Many sub-metering companies will cover the up front costs but the amount will be added to the monthly fees. Fees will have to go up to cover these costs.

2. You probably have flexibility in how much you can charge, but there may be statutory limits in your state. A reputable sub-metering company can tell you about your local laws.

3. Sub-metering will not solve your delinquency problem. The gas company will bill your association, and you will still need to bill the individual units.

4. When it comes to sub-metering companies, some do install, some do billing, some to both. Your solution will depend on what's available locally.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

DeniseM6 (Michigan)
Posts: 4

Posted:

It is my understanding that in order to convert to individual meters the condo bylaws or other legal documents would need to be voted on by condo majority to make suggested changes. I am still in the process of finding out exact details on what would be required by the co-owners. I do realize that changing to individual meters will not solve the delinquency problem, but it will allow the community to remove the largest expense from our budget, which in the long term would require co-owners to be accountable, and can no longer get "free" gas service. I will be checking on the master meter conversion or sub-metering options and appreciate all feedback. Thanks!!

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

One issue you may have to contend with is freezing pipes in the winter.

What happens if a seasonal owner leaves for the winter and shuts off his gas to save money while he is gone? What happens when a deadbeat owner cannot pay his gas bill? When his frozen pipes burst and his unit floods will it damage other units? As you are mopping up the mess in your unit will you be consoling yourself with the thought that you saved money by going to sub-meters?

BTW, on the same day you originally posted this thread there was a news feed article about an association in Ohio who had gone to sub-metering their water. Residents found that they were at the mercy of the sub-metering company, who charged $11 a month just to read each meter. That adds up to $132 a year per owner to ensure that they are not paying a few extra bucks a month for their neighbors' long showers.

It seems your real problem is getting owners to pay their assessments. You should be focusing on that issue rather than trying to avoid necessary expenses.

DeniseM6 (Michigan)
Posts: 4

Posted:

Hi Larry. FYI I live in Michigan so shutting off gas in winter does not happen. The gas company cannot cutoff during winter months, but any past due collection and eventual shutoff would be co-owners responsibility, not the association. The Board is looking at solutions to resolve the financial burden of covering monthly bills and costs to complete maintenance and upkeep of the community when there is a group of co-owners who are historically not paying their fees and using the system (ignore late fees, liens, foreclosure, court system, etc.) Removing the costs of gas service from the association fee will eventually return the focus of the budget where it belongs.

We need to get information to make an informed decision for the community, and how soon we could get a return on our investment, which probably would also involve a need for a special assessment to cover the costs of conversion (whether its master meter conversion or sub-metering), which remains to be determined. Any condo owners who have already converted to individual meters? What was your experience? Thanks.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Yuck! I wish you luck on this one - don't know why developers set up communities this way. Are they really THAT cheap? (Rhetorical question, I know!)

I wish I had some suggestions, but our community isn't set up this way (we have our own issues!) A community about 2 miles south of us had a similar problem with their water bill last year and came thisclose to everyone's water being shut off. The association managed to pay , but it cost all homeowners another $500 per household and I think they still have one meter (and about $200K in delinquencies!)

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LarryB13 on 09/29/2015 10:26 AM
One issue you may have to contend with is freezing pipes in the winter.

What happens if a seasonal owner leaves for the winter and shuts off his gas to save money while he is gone? What happens when a deadbeat owner cannot pay his gas bill? When his frozen pipes burst and his unit floods will it damage other units? As you are mopping up the mess in your unit will you be consoling yourself with the thought that you saved money by going to sub-meters?

BTW, on the same day you originally posted this thread there was a news feed article about an association in Ohio who had gone to sub-metering their water. Residents found that they were at the mercy of the sub-metering company, who charged $11 a month just to read each meter. That adds up to $132 a year per owner to ensure that they are not paying a few extra bucks a month for their neighbors' long showers.

It seems your real problem is getting owners to pay their assessments. You should be focusing on that issue rather than trying to avoid necessary expenses.

Larry

From reading the article, the $11 is the least of their problem. Holy S....

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