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ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
My HOA has a policy in place that homes may not be leased without submitting an application to and receiving approval from the Board. I gather many other posters here have a similar policy in their HOAs.

In my HOA, the Board does the reviewing of these applications. While I try to do a thorough review using whatever resources I have available, I think most other Directors just rubber-stamp the approvals.

My questions to folks here:

When you conduct reviews of lease agreements . . .
- What is your review process?
- What resources do you use?
- What exactly are you looking for during your review?
- On what basis would you deny an application?

I have my own methods but would like to see what others may be doing. Thanks in advance.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
We do not have such a policy.
Rentals are between the owner and the renter.
The Association is not involved.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
We've seen such a approval process from FL posters, but I don't recall from other states.

We're high rise twin tower condos with secured underground garages. So every resident must register with their car info and emergency contact info. But we do not require copies of leases.

I'm wondering if that's even legal in your state, ND? With Tim, imo, the lease is between Owner & tenant and is none of our business. I also wonder what the exact wording is in your HOA's governing documents on this topic?
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
I'm actually in Pennsylvania now and have updated that in my profile.

In referencing the PA Uniform Planned Community Act, there is no mention (that I can find) of reviewing or not reviewing lease agreements. Therefore, I don't think there's a legal issue with the fact that my HOA has imposed a process.

Before my time on the Board, a CC&R resolution was passed that established a process for submitting a lease agreement to the Board and for the Board to render a decision on that lease agreement (approve/disapprove).

The resolution is rather long, explaining the process and providing an addendum to the lease agreement; however, it begins with the following:
"APPLICATION TO LEASE: Homes may not be leased without application to and receiving approval from the Board of Directors. No third party leases are permitted without the approval of the Board. No unit may be leased for an initial term of less than one year."

I can certainly see the argument for staying out of this altogether . . . it's an agreement between owner and renter, so there's no reason for the HOA to be involved. It's none of the Board's business.

However, I can also see how such a process could prevent frequent and excessive renting of a home like what is done through airbnb and other similar sites. While I can appreciate that business model, I don't think it has a place in HOAs. I wouldn't want the house next to me to be a revolving door of renters.

Right now, the process exists for me in my HOA. My initial intent was to see how others work within a similar process. However, you now have me questioning whether such a process should even exist in my HOA.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
ND,

Does your resolution identify when an application would be denied or is it left to the discretion of the reviewing body?

What is the potential risk of legal action by an owner or a proposed renter if such an application is turned down?

What is the risk of liability if the Association approves someone and later that same individual executes crimes within the development (after all, having the authority to approve or disapprove implies some responsibility)?

Is the policy simply a resolution or is the authority to be part of the rental process within the CC&Rs (as this may cause a conflict)?

Has your Association explored the answer to those questions?

Personally, if one is going to limit rentals, I prefer a simpler restriction that simply states no owner may rent their property for the first x years of ownership.

Here are some links (all are from FL as that is what shows up when searching):

Approval of Condominium & HOA Leases or Sales Should Be Authorized In The Declaration 2014 article from a FL law blog

CAN AN ASSOCIATION APPROVE OR DISAPPROVE POTENTIAL PURCHASERS AND TENANTS? 2014 article from the FL SunSentinal

SCREENING, REJECTING APPROVING
AND THE RIGHT OF FIRST REFUSAL
2013 article

Create a website
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
oops, ignore that last link.
It's part of a cut, paste and edit which I utilize to post links.
I simply failed to delete it before pressing submit.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Because our CC&Rs don't permit a longer term, our limit for leases is only 30 days, which is in our Rules & Regs. The Board approving tenants isn't needed to limit rentals to a set term.

I think such a resolution can lead to suspicions of discrimination along the lines of gender, race or sexual orientation. It seems to me your board must be very cautious who you turn down!!

Our rule is broken a couple of times a year and we call the Owners to hearing and, if real violation, fine them $1000.

But what, ND, is a CC&R "resolution?" Resolutions are usually board actions & votes. Changes to CC&Rs usually are called "amendments" or even revisions. These often require a large % of owners to approve often 67%, 75% or even more.

Meantime, I'll be interested to see how many post here with how they handle such a lease requirement.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
ND,

It appears that your CC&R amendment has at least one objective standard, the one-year-minimum lease period. I assume there are other specific restrictions in the amendment. In that case, the board should examine the lease to determine whether it meets all the requirements of the amendment and then either approve or reject. Rejected leases should be accompanied by a statement for the reason otherwise your board will look capricious and arbitrary.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
The only rent restriction we have is a home cannot be rented during its first 6 months of ownership. This was done to stop speculators. We know we had 3 violations. Two were parents who purchased then only an adult child moved in. In another case, an adult child purchased and only her father moved in. We ignored the violations. We have no exact account of who rents.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ND on 09/28/2015 12:09 PM
In referencing the PA Uniform Planned Community Act, there is no mention (that I can find) of reviewing or not reviewing lease agreements. Therefore, I don't think there's a legal issue with the fact that my HOA has imposed a process.

Correct. No PA legal requirements.

Local Rule: My township requires a new Certificate of Occupancy with every occupancy change, including leases.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I see, ND, that it's only the initial rental period--when someone first buys the property--that is limed to at least a year. Beyond that, does the "resolution" have a limit on rental terms?
AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ND on 09/28/2015 9:12 AM
My HOA has a policy in place that homes may not be leased without submitting an application to and receiving approval from the Board. I gather many other posters here have a similar policy in their HOAs.

In my HOA, the Board does the reviewing of these applications. While I try to do a thorough review using whatever resources I have available, I think most other Directors just rubber-stamp the approvals.

My questions to folks here:

When you conduct reviews of lease agreements . . .
- What is your review process?
- What resources do you use?
- What exactly are you looking for during your review?
- On what basis would you deny an application?

I have my own methods but would like to see what others may be doing. Thanks in advance.

I have a rental policy and it includes a background check. We use a service, the renters/homeowner pay for the background check. I review the entire rental application, google everyone's names, look them up on Facebook etc and in some cases I have called previous landlords if I am suspicious. When the background check comes back I can see if the person has been evicted before and the homeowner gets the credit check also and can deny based on that. I am looking for obvious or even subtle signs of drug dealing or other criminal behavior, commercial intentions such as wanting to use the house for a hair salon or tax office and our docs say you cannot rent rooms, so I look for signs of party house or renting rooms.

I would deny based on our criminal background criteria, commercial intent, renting rooms. If I could not find a legal way to deny and am sure these folks will not be good neighbors or are up to no good, I would try like heck to interview them and make them sign every waiver and agreement we have and explain that we have the right to evict tenants that break our rules, and we have done it before and will do it again quickly and try to be as scary as possible. Other than those scare tactics there is not much else we can do to prevent rentals, and even with all that hard work, anyone can commit a crime after they move in.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I think I've read before that HOA boards may evict tenants in FL. Does anyone know of any other states where that's permitted?
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AllisonD on 09/28/2015 5:46 PM
I have a rental policy and it includes a background check. We use a service, the renters/homeowner pay for the background check. I review the entire rental application, google everyone's names, look them up on Facebook etc and in some cases I have called previous landlords if I am suspicious. When the background check comes back I can see if the person has been evicted before and the homeowner gets the credit check also and can deny based on that. I am looking for obvious or even subtle signs of drug dealing or other criminal behavior, commercial intentions such as wanting to use the house for a hair salon or tax office and our docs say you cannot rent rooms, so I look for signs of party house or renting rooms.

I would deny based on our criminal background criteria, commercial intent, renting rooms. If I could not find a legal way to deny and am sure these folks will not be good neighbors or are up to no good, I would try like heck to interview them and make them sign every waiver and agreement we have and explain that we have the right to evict tenants that break our rules, and we have done it before and will do it again quickly and try to be as scary as possible. Other than those scare tactics there is not much else we can do to prevent rentals, and even with all that hard work, anyone can commit a crime after they move in.

Interesting Allison.
1 How many rental applications have you denied?
2 How many potential renters have signed your waivers?
3 What exactly are your eviction rights?
4 Have you ever evicted anyone?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
We always call and talk to them. It amazes me how little screening some landlords do. They want the rent and don't care much if the renter will be happy.

It is in the interest of the landlord/renter/association to have a conversation/review before they sign a lease.

Problems I have found:

junk cars
too many cars
no cars (planned to mooch rides from other residents)
didn't pay rent to previous landlord
pets (we don't allow them)
home business (with customers, deliveries, workers)
planned to leave older parents here, hoping the neighbors will check on them (and feed them)
room rentals
short-term rentals
sublets without approval
outdoor junk
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Does your board have the right to not approve prospective tenants, Jeff? Are prospective tenants required by your HOA to give applications to the Board?

I agree that everyone benefits if someone meets & talks with new tenants (& new owners), gives them a "welcome packet," etc. Our onsite mgr. assist. does that so I don't know what other HOAs might do to get newcomers off on the right foot.

Our CC&Rs do require that Landlords leave copies of our (120 pp!) CC&Rs and Rules & Regs in the Unit for the tenants.
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 09/28/2015 12:48 PM
ND,

It appears that your CC&R amendment has at least one objective standard, the one-year-minimum lease period. I assume there are other specific restrictions in the amendment. In that case, the board should examine the lease to determine whether it meets all the requirements of the amendment and then either approve or reject. Rejected leases should be accompanied by a statement for the reason otherwise your board will look capricious and arbitrary.


Thanks to all who provided thoughts, questions, and advice. The above input from LarryB13 is great and really helped me to see the light.

After re-reading the resolution (which I suppose is what my HOA calls our rules & regs), there are essentially only 3 objective standards:
1) Initial lease term of no less than 1 year.
2) Submission of application and receipt of approval prior to renting the home.
3) No 3rd party leases unless approved by Board.

The resolution provides a lease addendum that (shockingly) requires a lot of information to be filled out: names of lessees, age, children's names and ages, present address, phone numbers, automobile make and year, and drivers license numbers. Just about all of this info seems unnecessary and inappropriate to collect and would only fuel the subjective examination of the people renting the home (and not of the actual lease agreement).

Let me also add that this Resolution was created while the neighborhood was under Developer control. I'm starting to believe there were ulterior motives behind its creation. It's written in such a way that if the Board chose to deny an application simply because they wanted to (whatever the reasons), then that would be allowable. The Board is essentially permitted to be capricious and arbitrary; however, that's certainly not how our current Board wants to act. This resolution seems to permit the type of overreaching that gets Boards in trouble and creates an unnecessary and inappropriate intrusion into homeowner's lives.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
ND

You say:

Let me also add that this Resolution was created while the neighborhood was under Developer control. I'm starting to believe there were ulterior motives behind its creation. It's written in such a way that if the Board chose to deny an application simply because they wanted to (whatever the reasons), then that would be allowable. The Board is essentially permitted to be capricious and arbitrary; however, that's certainly not how our current Board wants to act. This resolution seems to permit the type of overreaching that gets Boards in trouble and creates an unnecessary and inappropriate intrusion into homeowner's lives.

Typically renters create the most problems as there is no pride of ownership. I for one would like more controls on who can rent versus less control. I would advise you not give up that control.

ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 09/29/2015 4:39 AM
ND
Typically renters create the most problems as there is no pride of ownership. I for one would like more controls on who can rent versus less control. I would advise you not give up that control.

Also a good point.

In our case, we have some good renters in the neighborhood (let's hope it stays that way). Many of them take better care of their rented home than some of our owners.

I think for us, when it comes to receiving and reviewing lease agreements, somewhere in the middle may be acceptable. We may not want to completely give up control, but some of the info being requested and collected seems extreme and could only lead to subjective review of the people renting (which shouldn't be our domain).

On the topic of renters and pride of ownership . . . whatever happens to the inside of the home is the Owner's problem. But the HOA can regulate the exterior. If a home is leased, that home and the renters are still expected to comply with the HOA's documents. If there are violations, we would follow our procedures to hold the OWNER accountable. If that resulted in fines, liens, and/or lawsuits to get the job done, then so be it. The key IMO is enforcement of the documents equally to everyone, including renters, to try and ensure compliance.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
I am curious if any of the HOA's that have these rental approval processes in place also screen new owners. Except for ownership rights, there are the same.

Legally and for liability purposes, I don't think any HOA wants to be considered landlords.

I believe HOA should have documents on hand showing if the unit is a rental with contact info on the renter(s). More importantly, there should be a addendum signed by both the owner and the tenant they acknowledge receipt of a copy of the Rules and Regulation, if the association has any. Many HOA's don't have rules and regulations. Renters should not have copies of CCRs, as that is a contract between the owner and the association.

There is case law in California, Francis T V. Village Green Owners Association that associations can be held to the same duty of care as an landlord. In a association, the role of landlords as it pertains to THEIR unit lies with the owners.The owners have a responsibility to the association to make sure that their tenants abide by the rules and that care is used in using any of the common areas.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 09/28/2015 7:04 PM
Does your board have the right to not approve prospective tenants, Jeff? Are prospective tenants required by your HOA to give applications to the Board?

I agree that everyone benefits if someone meets & talks with new tenants (& new owners), gives them a "welcome packet," etc. Our onsite mgr. assist. does that so I don't know what other HOAs might do to get newcomers off on the right foot.

Our CC&Rs do require that Landlords leave copies of our (120 pp!) CC&Rs and Rules & Regs in the Unit for the tenants.

Yes, we have an application and approval. It should probably be a lease addendum.

We prefer to talk to people in the application stage, well before they move in. Our landlords are mostly amateurs who rely on luck and the association to make it work. And the renters don't want to move in and then find out their dog or business are not allowed. It's as much for the renters as it is for the association. If the process is done in a friendly manner, then everyone is happier than not doing it. We also help renters get settled as they are moving in.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ND on 09/29/2015 4:16 AM

After re-reading the resolution (which I suppose is what my HOA calls our rules & regs), there are essentially only 3 objective standards:
1) Initial lease term of no less than 1 year.
2) Submission of application and receipt of approval prior to renting the home.
3) No 3rd party leases unless approved by Board.

The resolution provides a lease addendum that (shockingly) requires a lot of information to be filled out: names of lessees, age, children's names and ages, present address, phone numbers, automobile make and year, and drivers license numbers. Just about all of this info seems unnecessary and inappropriate to collect and would only fuel the subjective examination of the people renting the home (and not of the actual lease agreement).

Collecting car and license plate numbers can help with issues of parking (including vehicle storage), speeding, and commercial vehicles.

It is illegal to discriminate against families with children. On the other hand, you can check on the number of occupants, unrelated people sharing the household, etc.

It can be good to know who your neighbors are, and their phone numbers.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Yeah,

Those gosh-danged immigrants and their children, for example.

Y'all are sitting ducks for a discrimination complaint.

IT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS TO WHOM A 'UNIT' IS RENTED

Short term vs. long term restrictions are allowed.

YOUR ONLY RELIEF IS WITH THE MEMBER

AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 09/28/2015 6:46 PM
Posted By AllisonD on 09/28/2015 5:46 PM
I have a rental policy and it includes a background check. We use a service, the renters/homeowner pay for the background check. I review the entire rental application, google everyone's names, look them up on Facebook etc and in some cases I have called previous landlords if I am suspicious. When the background check comes back I can see if the person has been evicted before and the homeowner gets the credit check also and can deny based on that. I am looking for obvious or even subtle signs of drug dealing or other criminal behavior, commercial intentions such as wanting to use the house for a hair salon or tax office and our docs say you cannot rent rooms, so I look for signs of party house or renting rooms.

I would deny based on our criminal background criteria, commercial intent, renting rooms. If I could not find a legal way to deny and am sure these folks will not be good neighbors or are up to no good, I would try like heck to interview them and make them sign every waiver and agreement we have and explain that we have the right to evict tenants that break our rules, and we have done it before and will do it again quickly and try to be as scary as possible. Other than those scare tactics there is not much else we can do to prevent rentals, and even with all that hard work, anyone can commit a crime after they move in.

Interesting Allison.
1 How many rental applications have you denied?
2 How many potential renters have signed your waivers?
3 What exactly are your eviction rights?
4 Have you ever evicted anyone?

We have denied several, for criminal background. All renters sign the waivers, its part of the package. A few renters backed out of the deal based on our requirements to follow these various rules so I did not have to deny them but they wisely looked elsewhere. We have evicted renters for moving other people into the house and ignoring the rental rules of undergoing the background check and the homeowner was on board with evicting them. And in one horrible foreclosure house that the homeowners rented out rooms on a day to day basis while they lived elsewhere, we evicted everyone that was living in the house but that was because we foreclosed on our lien. I am particularly strict with renters because I lived year-round in a summer vacation town on Long Island for several years and know what it is like to have a party house next door. These rules are what my residents wanted and I am happy to enforce these rules.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
If I could not find a legal way to deny and am sure these folks will not be good neighbors or are up to no good, I would try like heck to interview them and make them sign every waiver and agreement we have and explain that we have the right to evict tenants that break our rules, and we have done it before and will do it again quickly and try to be as scary as possible.


Hoist by her own Petard.

May the Creator protect us from the persons destined to reside in the Ninth Circle.

(myself included)
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
We have three clauses that must be in any lease agreement. We check for the three clauses one of which is word for word from our documents. And our documents do give the Board authority to request additional clauses. Other than the three specified clauses and that the lease be for at least 90 days there is no other qualifications to be able to lease a unit.

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