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GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Can someone start soliciting proxies now, let's say, for the next annual meeting in January? Can anyone do this (i.e. non-board members)? Can a proxy solicitation be targeted to certain owners? Does very owner have to be aware of the proxy solicitation being circulated?

I think I know the answers: yes, yes, yes and no.

Of course one's governing documents and state laws may say otherwise. What do others think?
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Geno,

I think your answers are correct.

The only kink in this that I can think of is that in some places the number of proxies one can exercise may be limited by the governing documents.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 09/26/2015 12:28 PM
Geno,

I think your answers are correct.

The only kink in this that I can think of is that in some places the number of proxies one can exercise may be limited by the governing documents.


That and its hard to keep a secret like that for very long. Oh yeah also if you get homeowner A to give you their proxy on Oct 1st and I get them to give me their proxy on Jan 1st, my proxy would then invalidate your proxy.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JackB8 (Virginia)
Posts: 141
Posted:
Our Bylaws allow proxy voting. At last years annual meeting there were 58 uninstructed proxies, 51 of which were held by current board members. 22 of these were held by a board member who routinely gathers proxies in high numbers and who has been on the board for 22 years. It is this way every year. Basically, the board decides, through the use of proxies, who is elected to the board. One other resident and I would like to see elections more indicative of selection by people who care enough to attend meetings. As it is, with an average of 30 to 4o people actually attending the meeting and the board controlling 50 to 60 additional votes, the board might as well eliminate voting and just dictate who will serve on the board. Any thoughts to help change this unfairness?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Unless your Statutes require a specific form, most don't but check to be sure, there is no reason why you can't start soliciting proxies now or to start collecting them in February or March for the 2017 meeting (as most Statutes specify a proxy is good for 11 months).
JackB8 (Virginia)
Posts: 141
Posted:
Good Point Tim, but that will work only one time. After that you can bet the folks who collect proxies will just increase the number they collect. No one can win a proxy war.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
When my mother was young she worked at a large company in NY for a couple of years and acquired a few shares of stock in it. She hung onto those shares for years. I remember as a kid seeing the envelopes on the table every year from Company X and my mother let me read them. Thus began my education in public corporations and shares of stock. I still remember the language on those proxy solicitations: "The Board recommends shareholders vote for X," whether X was a shareholder resolution or a board candidate.

In an HOA I can see how a yearly occurrence such as Jack describes could become almost a tradition for a lot of long time owners. The only thing I can think of to counterract that is "shareholder activism" (I think that's what they call it on Wall Street) whereby you convince enough people that they should give their proxies to someone other than Mr. 22-Year Board Member. Might take some convincing.
JerryD5 (Colorado)
Posts: 218
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JackB8 on 11/10/2015 7:46 AM
Our Bylaws allow proxy voting. At last years annual meeting there were 58 uninstructed proxies, 51 of which were held by current board members. 22 of these were held by a board member who routinely gathers proxies in high numbers and who has been on the board for 22 years. It is this way every year. Basically, the board decides, through the use of proxies, who is elected to the board. One other resident and I would like to see elections more indicative of selection by people who care enough to attend meetings. As it is, with an average of 30 to 4o people actually attending the meeting and the board controlling 50 to 60 additional votes, the board might as well eliminate voting and just dictate who will serve on the board. Any thoughts to help change this unfairness?


This is definitely not unfair. They are playing by the rules. The only way to beat them is to play their game. Go out earlier and gather proxies. Explain to the homeowners it is time for a change. It is a lot of hard work because it involves knocking on doors and some people are not comfortable to do that. You might not be successful this year but keep at it.

I am one of those that gathers proxies for our annual meeting and I have done it for the last 4 or 5 years. As with a lot of HOAs, apathy has set in and most homeowners are more than willing to give up their vote to another homeowner (or in my case, me). I am successful enough at gathering proxies that I do control just about any election we have. I am not ashamed of that. I would challenge anyone else to do what I have done: get to know their neighbors and talk about the issues. I will say that when I solcite proxies, I always ask if the homeowner would rather attend. 90% they don't have the time or the inclination to attend.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JerryD5 on 11/11/2015 6:01 AM
Posted By JackB8 on 11/10/2015 7:46 AM
Our Bylaws allow proxy voting. At last years annual meeting there were 58 uninstructed proxies, 51 of which were held by current board members. 22 of these were held by a board member who routinely gathers proxies in high numbers and who has been on the board for 22 years. It is this way every year. Basically, the board decides, through the use of proxies, who is elected to the board. One other resident and I would like to see elections more indicative of selection by people who care enough to attend meetings. As it is, with an average of 30 to 4o people actually attending the meeting and the board controlling 50 to 60 additional votes, the board might as well eliminate voting and just dictate who will serve on the board. Any thoughts to help change this unfairness?



This is definitely not unfair. They are playing by the rules. The only way to beat them is to play their game. Go out earlier and gather proxies. Explain to the homeowners it is time for a change. It is a lot of hard work because it involves knocking on doors and some people are not comfortable to do that. You might not be successful this year but keep at it.

I am one of those that gathers proxies for our annual meeting and I have done it for the last 4 or 5 years. As with a lot of HOAs, apathy has set in and most homeowners are more than willing to give up their vote to another homeowner (or in my case, me). I am successful enough at gathering proxies that I do control just about any election we have. I am not ashamed of that. I would challenge anyone else to do what I have done: get to know their neighbors and talk about the issues. I will say that when I solcite proxies, I always ask if the homeowner would rather attend. 90% they don't have the time or the inclination to attend.

Great post. I love proxies.
DonB8 (California)
Posts: 12
Posted:
We hold our annual meeting in December to vote on the budget and BOD elections, and we pay annual dues in January. It's always difficult to get people to attend in person, or even to return proxies.
In order to make sure we get enough proxies to hold an official meeting, we figure out how much the dues will be for each member, and tack on $25 to that amount. Then we tell all members they they will receive a $25 discount if they either show up to vote, or return their proxies. We always get enough proxies and add plenty to the general fund for those too lazy to do either.
JackB8 (Virginia)
Posts: 141
Posted:
You've reminded me of another problem we have. For 22years we have giving our residents a 5% discount if they pay the full assessment in advance. Tons of people did. Last year the attorney said that by law all residents had to pay the same assessments so we could no longer give anyone a discount. Now we're back to the prediscount days where few prepay. What you are doing might not be strictly legal and might cause some problems if our attorney is right. I think he is wrong but can't prove it. Can't find the law he quotes and he refuses to make it available which causes me to question his word. Typical of what I get when I surface a concern in my community.
AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 09/26/2015 12:00 PM
Can someone start soliciting proxies now, let's say, for the next annual meeting in January? Can anyone do this (i.e. non-board members)? Can a proxy solicitation be targeted to certain owners? Does very owner have to be aware of the proxy solicitation being circulated?

I think I know the answers: yes, yes, yes and no.

Of course one's governing documents and state laws may say otherwise. What do others think?

Geno for some reason I think that a board member should not be soliciting proxies until after the annual meeting notice is mailed to the homeowner's and the mailing should contain the proxies. A non-board member would probably not do this because he or she may not know what the voting issues are yet. I do not think it matters and in fact I think its commonplace to visit the folks who you know will give you a proxy and skip the others, although you might be doing them a disservice. Since the proxies should be mailed to every homeowner (but are rarely returned) I think every homeowner is aware and should be aware that there is a potential proxy solicitation occurring.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JackB8 on 11/12/2015 6:05 PM
You've reminded me of another problem we have. For 22years we have giving our residents a 5% discount if they pay the full assessment in advance. Tons of people did. Last year the attorney said that by law all residents had to pay the same assessments so we could no longer give anyone a discount. Now we're back to the prediscount days where few prepay. What you are doing might not be strictly legal and might cause some problems if our attorney is right. I think he is wrong but can't prove it. Can't find the law he quotes and he refuses to make it available which causes me to question his word. Typical of what I get when I surface a concern in my community.

Jack,

Your attorney is correct. We were advised the same thing (as a previous board also used to do this).

Typically, per the CC&Rs, assessments are for a specific purpose and must be applied equally (or proportionately, typical in condos). Hence, the Board has zero authority to waive assessments. They may waive charges but not assessments.

I also believe that if the Association can afford a 5% discount, then the assessments are set too high.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Thanks, Allison. It sounds right that proxies should go out only after the Annual Meeting notice is sent. I'm not sure about various state laws that require the date of the meeting to be pre-printed on the proxy as opposed to a fill-in-the-blank line for the meeting date.

We have a group of owners who are in favor of adding an amenity that many owners are against, i.e. a dog park. Leaving aside the pros and cons of a dog park in the community, someone has been soliciting "votes" from owners sympathetic to the dog park idea and carefully leaving everyone else out of the loop. One elderly owner told me last month that the chief proponent of the idea approached her on the street one day and told her in no uncertain terms that she should vote for it.

Anyway, the only "you better vote YES" situation I can envision having any effect would be at the annual meeting of the members and I can't help but wonder if the group is quietly soliciting proxies from people they think will support their plan. Participation here is quite low and a submarine surprise at the annual meeting would not be out of the question.

Following the letter of the law isn't something that people here concern themselves with too much.

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