HOA hires off duty Trooper

Started by FredW5 • 19 replies • 2761 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

FredW5
Posts: 177

Posted:

Our master board has hired an off duty trooper to hand out tickets to residents who speed or do not fully stop at signs. The community roads are considered private with no outlets. Several residents who have received tickets are fighting this in court as illegal since this is a private community road. Anyone else have experienced such a situation?
Thanks!

SheliaH
Posts: 6,967

Posted:

You might want to check your documents - ours have adopted the city's traffic and parking ordinances as community rules, so if you speed, don't come to a complete stop at a stop sign, etc., and our security officers (both cops) see it, you'll be ticketed.

If your board is doing this, you may want to ask if they checked with the city to see if this type of enforcement is possible. If so, an announcement to the community would have been helpful, but then again, just because it's a private road doesn't mean people can treat it any sort of way. Since the board can't sit outside all day and monitor the stop, this is the next best thing.

Next time, slow down and stop already!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

MarkM31
Posts: 342

Posted:

Enforcement of traffic laws most often applies to publicly accessible private property. This would mean parking lots and HOA's.

MarkM31
Posts: 342

Posted:

Quote:

316.640 Enforcement.—The enforcement of the traffic laws of this state is vested as follows:
(1) STATE.—
(a)1.a. The Division of Florida Highway Patrol of the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles; the Division of Law Enforcement of the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission; and the agents, inspectors, and officers of the Department of Law Enforcement each have authority to enforce all of the traffic laws of this state on all the streets and highways thereof and elsewhere throughout the state wherever the public has a right to travel by motor vehicle.

MelissaP1
Posts: 13,734

Posted:

Rule of thumb, if it's required to have a tag/registration it is subject to traffic laws of the state. Roads may be private but still required to be licensed/tagged/registered to drive on them. Which is in your rules most likely that vehicles must be up to date on their car tags and valid license.

If the tags aren't up to date and the car is on the street, the HOA would still be able to tow it or consider it an abandoned vehicle correct? Not much difference applying other laws as well.

Former HOA President

GenoS
Posts: 4,262

Posted:

FS 316.006 (2)b and (3)b both allow for a FS 720 HOA board of directors to choose (by majority vote) to have the state's traffic laws enforced on its private roads. A written agreement may be required, but the authority is there.

Now whether or not local law enforcement would also want a say in what the actual speed limits are or where stop signs should be placed is another story.

GenoS
Posts: 4,262

Posted:

Further to what I just wrote above, if the board just went off half-cocked and hired an off-duty trooper to do this without regard for how the law says it must be done then it may be unenforceable.

MarkM31
Posts: 342

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GenoS on 09/22/2015 10:49 AM
FS 316.006 (2)b and (3)b both allow for a FS 720 HOA board of directors to choose (by majority vote) to have the state's traffic laws enforced on its private roads. A written agreement may be required, but the authority is there.

Now whether or not local law enforcement would also want a say in what the actual speed limits are or where stop signs should be placed is another story.

It's probably not even necessary for a HOA or property owner to have an agreement on record with the police. This is one reason they can cite you for doing doughnuts in a parking lot.

GenoS
Posts: 4,262

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM31 on 09/22/2015 11:18 AM
It's probably not even necessary for a HOA or property owner to have an agreement on record with the police. This is one reason they can cite you for doing doughnuts in a parking lot.

I disagree. The roads and parking areas are private property and without a written agreement, at least in Florida, the local municipality or county have no jurisdiction re. the traffic laws. Doing doughnuts in the parking lot might violate other laws such as nusiance ordinances, or causing property damage. That might be enforceable by local law enforcement but I don't think anything strictly under the state uniform traffic control statutes would be unless there was an agreement in place.

FredW5
Posts: 177

Posted:

Thanks for the responses. Today, a judge has voided several of the traffic citations based on the facts that :

1:The State Trooper was hired by the Master HOA Board whenever he is off duty, and there is no documentation providing him to enforce the traffic rules in our communities, and,

2:The stop signs erected on the community are not of regulation height. ( I never knew about this one.)
ƒ

LarryB13
Posts: 4,089

Posted:

Quote:

This raises a question: Is hiring a particular off-duty officer the same as having an agreement with the local law enforcement agency?

If off-duty trooper Bruno accidentally shoots and kills a kid on his way to school, will the agency that he normally works for accept the liability? Or will they say what he does on his own time is his own business?

TimB4
Posts: 20,986

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LarryB13 on 09/22/2015 2:27 PM

This raises a question: Is hiring a particular off-duty officer the same as having an agreement with the local law enforcement agency?

I know from experience that the answer to this is no.

Our Association actually provides written authority (annually) to the local law enforcement to enter the development to enforce traffic laws.

KellyM3
Posts: 2,233

Posted:

Ahhh...a refreshing and educational thread on the forum as I'd never considered this issue. Sounds like a great thing (private road traffic enforcement) if an HOA can get the legalities in order to properly launch a program. My bet is most residents will enjoy it.

JohnC46
Posts: 14,230

Posted:

There was an incident in GA? where an association used a private security firm to enforce traffic rules. The rent a cop stopped a real cop. The rent a cop wanted the real cop's license and registration so he could issue a citation.

The real cop arrested the rent a cop for impersonating a police officer.

Sorry I do not know the outcome.

KerryL1
Posts: 14,519

Posted:

Are there reason why the off-duty cop cannot issue HOA warning citations? Next step issue HOA citations that invite the violator to hearing, per FL HOA laws, and fine her/him on the 2nd offense?

In other words, handle these matters like any other violation of HOA covenants & rules?

FredW5
Posts: 177

Posted:

There is a sign upon entering into our community clearly stating " Warning, area patrolled by State Trooper - speeders and traffic violators will be ticketed".

KerryL1
Posts: 14,519

Posted:

But I'm wondering, Fred, if your Board can handle these violations themselves, just as they do other violations?

We have underground parking and maybe once a year someone speeds up the drive ramp to our gated exit, and if open already, speeds out to the street. They do get a courtesy (warning) letter. If repeated within 6 months, they'd get called to a hearing. The warning always works (so far!).

AllisonD
Posts: 449

Posted:

Geno, who are you paying? The cop or FHP? I am asking because FHP allows officers to be hired out privately for traffic control but I am not sure if that includes issuing tickets.

DaveD3
Posts: 791

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By FredW5 on 09/22/2015 12:15 PM
Thanks for the responses. Today, a judge has voided several of the traffic citations based on the facts that :

1:The State Trooper was hired by the Master HOA Board whenever he is off duty, and there is no documentation providing him to enforce the traffic rules in our communities, and,

2:The stop signs erected on the community are not of regulation height. ( I never knew about this one.)
ƒ

Excellent, as they should have done.

Michigan law stipulates that the police MAY patrol private property open to the general public if an agreement is in place. However, there are limitations to what they can enforce. This is where the grocery store parking lot enforcement of stop signs and reckless driving come into play. There is also a mandate that the signage conform to universal traffic signage standards.

The question is what constitutes "open to the general public". A gated community? Certainly not. Does "private, no trespassing" negate the general public? I would think so.

I assume other states have similar laws stipulating such conditions.

FredW5
Posts: 177

Posted:

Hi .
We are one of 12 communities .Our commuity does not handle the traffic control. The Master association handles that. They pay the of duty trooper directly. I am not certain that any documents have been filed with the city or the county, I will find out at the next Master Board meeting.
Thanks all for the responses!.
Fred.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here