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CarolP14 (Maine)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Our previous BOD of 7 years did not build up a reserve for road maintenance in our subdivision or for any legal fees that might occur should a member violate the rules or the covenants. The new BOD is just beginning to build one up but there is not sufficient amount of funds for an injunction (lawyer estimated the cost at appx $2,000 (if he does not contest it).

My question is....Can we take out a loan to cover the cost and bill the violating owner for those cost for the loan so we do not have to have a special assessment for the members who would most likely not approve of the assessment?

There is nothing in our documents that says that we can sue a member (Maine Statutes 13-B does though). There is only one clause in our By-Laws that could possibly be used.... "Section 2. Assessments. Assessments may be levied for paying the costs of PROTECTING, preserving, care and maintenance of the Wilson View Drive."

PROTECTING can include protecting if from liability because he is allowing it to be used for recreational vehicle purposes. Our Road Declaration specifically says that it is for "vehicular and pedestrian travel" only and that it is "for the use and benefit of the 12 members" - not the entire public that he is permitting his property to be used for snowmobiling.

We are confident that we have a good case but it is uncertain if we can charge him for the expenses incurred when he loses.

Thanks,
President of WVDRA
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Whenever you take legal action against a member by taking him to court, the court will award the prevailing party a judgment for the costs of filing and serving the action. You can also recover your costs for your lawyer but this will vary from state to state.

If the court determines that your association should bear all costs, you could not lawfully assess the owner for those costs. If your association prevails, the owner will be obligated to pay whatever judgment the court issues. I believe it would be improper to levy an assessment against an owner, whether for the same amount the court has awarded or for a different amount, because the judgment is already a legally enforceable debt. An assessment to collect a judgment would create two obligations where only one should exist.

CarolP14 (Maine)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Thank you Larry for your reply. It helped to confirm what I believed but did not want to proceed without additional feedback from others.

However, does anyone believe it would be proper to take out a loan vs. assessing the members for upfront costs?

Has anyone here had to take a member to court?
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
CarolP14 (Maine):

By any chance is your association set up under Maine's “Private Ways statute” - formerly the good ole’ “Camp Road law” – Title 23 MRSA subchapter 3101 to 3106 1997 as amended effective Sep 12/09 inclusive.

This had been dug up by NPS. If no more than a roads association, your other choices might include the 2 others shown in the state’s Oct 2009 online brochure “A Guide to Forming Road Associations” http://www.maineroads.org/Resources/Documents/road_association_guide.pdf
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Let's see if I understand this. You can't come up with the $2k to pursue a lawsuit, so you want to take out a $2k loan. But the lawyer says that $2k will only cover the cost if it isn't contested. So if the snowmobile honcho contests the lawsuit, it's going to cost you more - maybe $5-10k. Are you going to take out another loan?

Or maybe after you've sunk $2k into this, you decide you're not going to spend the extra $5-$10k that your lawyer says will take to bring this to trial. Remember, a judge doesn't award fees unless you go all the way through the process and win. If you settle - No award of fees. If you drop out - No award of fees. And even if the judge finds in your favor - There's no guarantee that she'll award you some or all of your fees.

The other thing I am concerned about is the $2k amount. If the HOs aren't willing to have a special assessment for that small an amount, just think what's going to happen when they learn you borrowed the money and they're going to have to pay off the loan if you don't recover it all.

General rules of thumb that you should consider. A trial is always unpredictable. Less than 3% of all lawsuits ever get to trial. Hmm. Wonder why that is?


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 09/13/2015 9:52 AM
Let's see if I understand this. You can't come up with the $2k to pursue a lawsuit, so you want to take out a $2k loan. But the lawyer says that $2k will only cover the cost if it isn't contested. So if the snowmobile honcho contests the lawsuit, it's going to cost you more - maybe $5-10k. Are you going to take out another loan?

Or maybe after you've sunk $2k into this, you decide you're not going to spend the extra $5-$10k that your lawyer says will take to bring this to trial. Remember, a judge doesn't award fees unless you go all the way through the process and win. If you settle - No award of fees. If you drop out - No award of fees. And even if the judge finds in your favor - There's no guarantee that she'll award you some or all of your fees.

The other thing I am concerned about is the $2k amount. If the HOs aren't willing to have a special assessment for that small an amount, just think what's going to happen when they learn you borrowed the money and they're going to have to pay off the loan if you don't recover it all.

General rules of thumb that you should consider. A trial is always unpredictable. Less than 3% of all lawsuits ever get to trial. Hmm. Wonder why that is?


Excellent points.

The $2000 is just to start and there is no upper limit on what you may have to spend to get a final judgment in your favor. The owner, of course, faces these same financial obstacles. I do not believe his homeowner's insurance will defend against a lawsuit by the association and, even if they did, would have no incentive to fight for the owner's right to use the roads in violation of the covenants.

CarolP14 (Maine)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Bob, As I said earlier, we are a Title 13B, NonProfit Corporation
CarolP14 (Maine)
Posts: 25
Posted:
I was under the impression that an injunction was more like a "cease and desist order" but that it had more power to it because it went through the courts.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolP14 on 09/13/2015 10:12 AM
I was under the impression that an injunction was more like a "cease and desist order" but that it had more power to it because it went through the courts.


You are correct but because it goes through the courts the prevailing party may, and usually does, seek a judgment for his costs, including attorney's fees.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Carol,

You can ask the court to award the Association attorney fees. If the fees are reasonable (in the eyes of the court) you may get all costs awarded or perhaps only some of the costs.

If the Association requires a loan to pay the attorney, any costs associated with the loan would be on the Association.

I'm confused on if you need an injunction now or are simply looking into what ifs.

My association is in the process of collecting on a member who is behind in assessments. In the last six months we have spent about $800 on legal fees. Even though we are assessing those fees against the owner, if they don't have money to pay the assessment, they likely don't have money to pay the legal costs.

The Association should never assume that they will actually collect any costs for legal fees. They can hope that occurs, but they should not expect it to occur.
CarolP14 (Maine)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 09/13/2015 10:59 AM
If the Association requires a loan to pay the attorney, any costs associated with the loan would be on the Association.

I'm confused on if you need an injunction now or are simply looking into what ifs.

My association is in the process of collecting on a member who is behind in assessments. In the last six months we have spent about $800 on legal fees. Even though we are assessing those fees against the owner, if they don't have money to pay the assessment, they likely don't have money to pay the legal costs.

The Association should never assume that they will actually collect any costs for legal fees. They can hope that occurs, but they should not expect it to occur.

Tim, If the Association applied for a loan in order to go through the courts for his violations, then would that not be a part of the cost that he would have to reimburse the Association for? If that was not paid within a given period of time, then a lien could be attached to his home.....of which he would also have to pay for the cost of that one. I think he would pay because they do have the funds to do so.

As far as looking into the "what ifs" goes, not sure what other "what ifs" there are - other than possibly fining him for letting his so-called "guests" use the road for snowmobiling - which he knows is against the rules.

As far as your association not collecting dues in arrears goes, why are you not placing a lien on his property? We had one member that the previous board allowed to go 3 years without paying a nickel since the day he bought his house. When that board was replaced with a new board, he was told to either pay up within 30 days or a lien was going to be placed on his property along with over $1,000 is accumulated late payment fees. He paid up within a week. Hated us but he paid.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolP14 on 09/13/2015 1:38 PM

Tim, If the Association applied for a loan in order to go through the courts for his violations, then would that not be a part of the cost that he would have to reimburse the Association for? If that was not paid within a given period of time, then a lien could be attached to his home.....of which he would also have to pay for the cost of that one. I think he would pay because they do have the funds to do so.

The fact that the Association chose to obtain a loan vs utilizing a special assessment to pay bills was the choice of the Board.

The individual is, in my opinion, responsible for the costs of collection not the costs to cover a loan to pay the costs of collection.

Quote:
Posted By CarolP14 on 09/13/2015 1:38 PM

As far as your association not collecting dues in arrears goes, why are you not placing a lien on his property?

We are placing a lien on the property.

The process in our county to place the lien takes time and utilizing a legal firm to do the paperwork creates expenses. Those costs of collection are attached to the lien. We are also going for a judgement lien so the debt follows the individual and not just the property.

BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolP14 on 09/13/2015 7:26 AM

My question is. . . . Can we take out a loan to cover the cost and bill the violating owner for those cost for the loan so we do not have to have a special assessment for the members who would most likely not approve of the assessment ?

PROTECTING can include protecting if from liability because he is allowing it to be used for recreational vehicle purposes. Our Road Declaration specifically says that it is for "vehicular and pedestrian travel" only and that it is "for the use and benefit of the 12 members" - not the entire public that he is permitting his property to be used for snowmobiling. We are confident that we have a good case but it is uncertain if we can charge him for the expenses incurred when he loses. "

You invite comments NOT about the CCR compliance of an owner driving a snowmobile on your association's (corporately owned ?) road & allowing visitors to snowmobile on his own private property.

Rather it is about authority for your association to borrow the retainer to file for an injunction. You plan to recover it after a confident win.

Your lawyer would be source to confirm if Maine's Title 13B Nonprofit Corporation - section 202 General Powers 1 J " to borrow money" is the statute applicable to you. Its subsection 202-3 confirms the powers without recital necesary in the specific articles issued.

1-Worth considering IF the snowmobiling violates the wording in your CCRs ? Don't expect to look too hard to find judgments treating snowmobiles as "vehicles" eg next door New York Stanton v Lincoln Life (2010) http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-york/nywdce/6:2009cv06430/75503/32/ Whether in Maine or even in NY or your CCRs maybe they aren't defined as vehicles .

2- Would you and other owners be the lenders ?

Or imagine this question other than at loansharks, payday loaner or Mafia :

"Will you kindly lend us $2K and maybe more ? Not for a major common element building system, but so that with no existing warchest we can slamdunk somebody's snowmobile as a non - vehicle or Need to Protect ?

Security ? : Whatever you as lender can extract from a tiny enclave of 12 properties fighting over snowmobiling, plus the roadbed itself ? our own private homes ?"

What might it cost if contested but you win ? Even contested simple condo pet violations hit $20 K legals and more around here after a win.

A sixteen year fight over a buckshee condo attic has already generated over $2 M in billings.

Winners get 60 % - 70 % of legals if lucky around here.

I would think really hard about this.

BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Had more details been given about the snowmobile driving at some other topic / too close to buildings ?

A further topic had been "? Illegally photographing members as they enter private subdivision” http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/198058/view/topic/Default.aspx

Good luck with these
CarolP14 (Maine)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 09/13/2015 5:35 PM
~ The fact that the Association chose to obtain a loan vs utilizing a special assessment to pay bills was the choice of the Board.
~ The individual is, in my opinion, responsible for the costs of collection not the costs to cover a loan to pay the costs of collection.

Tim, I think you have a good point. I had the belief that from the time that the phone was picked up to initiate a legal process for violations, then all costs from that moment on were to be recovered by the owner. But, I agree that, even though it might be permissive, it may not be a wise decision if the members did not agree.

Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 09/13/2015 PM
The process in our county to place the lien takes time and utilizing a legal firm to do the paperwork creates expenses. Those costs of collection are attached to the lien. We are also going for a judgement lien so the debt follows the individual and not just the property.

Tim, our lawyer is pro-bono. The previous board had to place a lien on a member who was deficient in dues. In that case the bank ended up repossessing his house. It was then auctioned off and the cost of the lien and the back dues were reimbursed to the association.

Right now our lawyer agrees that he is in violation but is dragging his feet about a possible "conflict of interest." Briefly, it involves a very small path that had begun to be used for a snowmobile trail that crossed a corner of his lot. That trail came out onto, and through, his neighbors property and then onto our road. That neighbor posted a "No Trespassing" sign on their property to stop the traffic from entering the road. That is when the violator in question constructed a NEW path attached to the old one and brought that one onto the road for outsiders to use. He refers to them as his "guests" but he does not know all of them nor do those "guests" stop to visit him.

So, the lawyer, who I disagree with is in error in saying the has a conflict of interest due to the fact that he is focusing on the old path that he had indicated to him that it was a ROW at the time he bought the property last year. It was not a ROW and our lawyer was not correct when telling him he could use it for a trail in back of his house. BUT, that OLD trail is not our issue. That would have been an issue between the two abutting properties. Our issue is the NEW trail that he attached to the old trail that is bringing PUBLIC traffic onto our PRIVATE road and creating dangerous conditions for those who use it on a daily basis by vehicle. In our state, snowmobile is clearly defined as not being a "vehicle."

Right now we are "discussing" the conflict of interest issue with our lawyer and are waiting for resolution on that.

CarolP14 (Maine)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BobD4 on 09/13/2015 8:46 PM
Had more details been given about the snowmobile driving at some other topic / too close to buildings ?

A further topic had been "? Illegally photographing members as they enter private subdivision” http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/198058/view/topic/Default.aspx

Good luck with these

Bob, if you don't mind, I prefer to isolate specific issues and deal with them one at a time. As far as the "spy camera goes" he is not a member. He is known in the neighborhood as being "strange." It was thought, not an legal objective.

I bring these issues here because we essentially are a "new" association with only one rule - no snowmobiling on the road for safety issues et al. I say "new" because the previous board grossly neglected their duties to the point they did nothing but pay the bills and have the road plowed. The excess snowmobiling issue was totally ignored - it was a "free-for-all" on the road. Renters created additional snowmobiling "trails" on other vacant properties to all a thoroughfare in 4 different direction to take place and the board did nothing. ATV's from the other subdivision owners raced up and down our road. We sat in our homes terrified due to guns going of from the north, south, east and west close to our homes. Hunting within 300' of a building was ignored. Members asked for meetings and they were denied. Members were never allowed to vote on the budget. We were never given the By-Laws when we bought the property. No "private property" sign was ever installed and therefore, there was a constant flow of outside traffic year-round leaving dust storms both ways.

So, we now have a board that is attempting to function in the manner in which it was designed to be - a residential private subdivision where people who wish to use recreational vehicles are completely free to do so by putting them on their trailers and taking them to a designated location nearby to use among undoing the mess that the previous board left behind.

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