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AnnS11 (Alabama)
Posts: 5
Posted:
what is the perhaps better route to take in order to ultimately collect from a delinquent homeowner HOA dues for last 5 years? What's the advantage, if any, of filing suit in small claims court w filing fee of $243 to collect about $3660 and then hopefully getting and then recording a money judgment against homeowner in Probate? .....As opposed to solely recording for $5.50 the homeowners associations claim of a lien against the homeowner of $3660 in probate? I am thinking the HOA lien recorded only attaches to the specific property at issue whereas a judgment for money recorded would attach to any property or llc interest the homeowner has in the county. Wouldn't this also affect the homeowners ability to refi or sell or tranfer title on all or any of their other propert until the HOAs judgment against homeowner has been satisfied?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
What is best for your Association may not be best for another Association. Each Board will have to make that determination based on applicable State laws, individual circumstances of the member and how the courts in your State have been ruling in similar cases (case law).

In general:

Lien:

Most, if not all, governing documents (CC&Rs) specify that their is a continuing lien already on the property. It simply isn't recorded with the courts. Therefore, many associations simply need to walk to the courthouse and record the continuing lien. However, laws vary and you need to check prior to doing this.

In my opinion, the following are the pros and cons of liens:

- The lien is only attached to the property (what is basically collateral for the assessment).

- Mortgages, taxes and earlier liens have precedence. Therefore, if foreclosed on, you may never see the money.

- Liens only really affect the member if they are looking for additional credit, want to refinance or are selling the property. If none of these are planned, they can ignore the lien until/unless someone starts the foreclosure process to collect the lien.

- Liens are cheap to file and take minimal documentation.

- Liens may have to be renewed every x years.

- Liens may have to be updated with new amounts as the debt grows.

- Foreclosing on a lien stops the bleeding.

- You can't get blood from a turnip. If the house is underwater, then the Association will likely never see a penny.

- Some States require court approval before foreclosing on the lien.

Court Judgements:

- A judgement from the court takes additional time, energy and, if attorneys are used, money.

- you can still file a lien with the court judgement

- Judgements follow the person (if they can be found) and not the property

- With a judgement, the association (with additional approval from the courts) may garnish wages, bank accounts, tax refunds, other property (cars, boats, other homes, etc.)

- If the individual goes out of the State (sometimes out of the County) additional court approval may be needed.

- With a judgement, if you file a lien and don't collect all the money from foreclosure, you can seek additional avenues to collect.

- Judgements can be bought and sold. Hence, the Association could collect some of the money (typically pennies on the dollar) by selling the judgement to someone else.

Again: LAWS VARY BY STATE FOR LIENS, JUDGEMENTS and FORECLOSURE

Here are some links:

Subject: Judgments/Liens 2011 thread on this forum

Judgment Liens on Property in Alabama from nolo.com

Enforcing Money Judgments Against Personal Property in Virginia 1980 - From the School of William and Mary law review

Is Judgment Recovery Legal? Yes! And here’s why…

After a Judgment: Collecting Money from findlaw

HOA Liens & Foreclosures: An Overview from nolo.com

HOA Put a Judgment Against Me for Not Paying HOA: What Can I Do?

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AnnS11 on 09/01/2015 12:50 AM
what is the perhaps better route to take in order to ultimately collect from a delinquent homeowner HOA dues for last 5 years? What's the advantage, if any, of filing suit in small claims court w filing fee of $243 to collect about $3660 and then hopefully getting and then recording a money judgment against homeowner in Probate? .....As opposed to solely recording for $5.50 the homeowners associations claim of a lien against the homeowner of $3660 in probate? I am thinking the HOA lien recorded only attaches to the specific property at issue whereas a judgment for money recorded would attach to any property or llc interest the homeowner has in the county. Wouldn't this also affect the homeowners ability to re-fi or sell or transfer title on all or any of their other property until the HOA's judgment against homeowner has been satisfied?

Ann,

There are two questions to ask before filing a lawsuit: 1) Do you know where to locate the owner?; 2) Do you have reason to believe that the owner has the assets to pay a judgment?

To sue someone, you must be able to serve them personally; that is, put the summons and complaint in the owner's hands if necessary. If you do not know just where to find the owner you should not sue because you cannot proceed until he has been served.

A judgment will include not only the amount the person owes but also the cost incurred in bringing the suit. This can include attorney's fees. This can add hundreds or even thousands to the amount owed. There is little reason to do this if you do not know for a fact that the debtor has either the income or the assets to pay this off in full.

The only circumstance I can think of to make a lawsuit a good choice is if the owner just simply refuses to pay for whatever reason. (We had one who refused to pay because he felt the POA was not maintaining his road to his satisfaction; we ended up foreclosing on his property.) If an owner is not paying his bills due to financial problems then a lawsuit is not likely to get you any money.

Keep in mind that in the real world most businesses accept the fact that not all debts can be collected. You will never get 100% of what is owed 100% of the time.

I would strongly recommend that your BOD adopt a stronger policy regarding collections. You said you have one owner who owes five years worth of assessments. In my state, those first two years would be uncollectible due to the statute of limitations on HOA debts.

This may be the wrong answer, but I do not believe that a judgment by itself will create a lien to prevent the owner from refinancing, selling, or transferring title. I think you would have to file a judgment lien against each and every property. BTW, should you obtain a judgment you would be wise to record that and make it part of the public record.
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
Regarding Tim's post above

"- Liens are cheap to file and take minimal documentation."

Not so in Texas. A lien which encumbers real property in Texas must be filed by an attorney. An association we manage recently requested the association attorney to file a lien. The charge for preparing the demand letter, preparing and filing the notice of lien, postage and costs, and the filing fee was $375.78. This is in addition to collection costs previously charged by the MC and the attorney of nearly $400.00 for the preparation of certified letters, postage, preparation of documents by the MC and the charge for referring the account to the attorney.

These charges have been added to the homeowner's account, taking a past due assessment balance of $387.00 to a balance in excess of $1,400.00 when interest and collection costs are added.

What is so silly about this is the property owner went down this same road three years ago, and paid about $700 to clear a two assessment past due balance of $242.00. It is especially silly on the part of the property owner as Texas law requires a delinquent property owner be offered a payment plan, which can spread a past due balance up to 18 months depending on the amount. The assessments for this association are $266.00 annually, which is nothing compared to the assessment costs for those of you with significant amenities and association provided exterior maintenance.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillH10 on 09/01/2015 8:48 AM
Regarding Tim's post above

"- Liens are cheap to file and take minimal documentation."

Not so in Texas. A lien which encumbers real property in Texas must be filed by an attorney. An association we manage recently requested the association attorney to file a lien. The charge for preparing the demand letter, preparing and filing the notice of lien, postage and costs, and the filing fee was $375.78. This is in addition to collection costs previously charged by the MC and the attorney of nearly $400.00 for the preparation of certified letters, postage, preparation of documents by the MC and the charge for referring the account to the attorney.

These charges have been added to the homeowner's account, taking a past due assessment balance of $387.00 to a balance in excess of $1,400.00 when interest and collection costs are added.

What is so silly about this is the property owner went down this same road three years ago, and paid about $700 to clear a two assessment past due balance of $242.00. It is especially silly on the part of the property owner as Texas law requires a delinquent property owner be offered a payment plan, which can spread a past due balance up to 18 months depending on the amount. The assessments for this association are $266.00 annually, which is nothing compared to the assessment costs for those of you with significant amenities and association provided exterior maintenance.

Similar experience to Bill's here in PA. All in, cost is around $1k. Delinquent HO paid the additional $1k on two prior occasions. Nuts in our opinion. This last time, when we went to execute on judgment, HO filed for bankruptcy. HO's bankruptcy forced us to eat the legal fees this time.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 09/01/2015 9:02 AM
This last time, when we went to execute on judgment, HO filed for bankruptcy. HO's bankruptcy forced us to eat the legal fees this time.

Another risk in spending money on a lawsuit.

When someone owes you money, that is money you have never had in your possession. You need to weigh all the risks involved before spending hard cold cash from your treasury on chasing after funds you never had and may never have. When you spend money on one thing, such as a lawsuit, it means that money will not be available for other expenses, like fixing the roof. A lawsuit has the chance of making you whole but often has a bigger chance of putting you in a worse situation.

Several years ago my association had unpaid assessments totaling about $25,000. They spent $175,000 on an attorney to sue 60 delinquent owners. For all that effort they collected less than $1,000, for a net loss of $174,000.

BTW, I am not suggesting that you should never file a lawsuit. I am suggesting that it should not be a knee-jerk response. Each situation needs to be evaluated against the risks involved.

AnnS11 (Alabama)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Some great responses. I wonder if a HOA could record the lien in probate for some of the years of delinquent assessments and then also file suit in small claims court for another year or two of the delinquent assessments? Would this affect both the homeowner's credit due to the recorded judgments against them as well as insure some collection of the assessments from the lien attaches to the home? Seems the homeowner would get tired of the judgments wrecking their credit and inhibiting their ability to get decent rates for loans or refinances etc. This assumption is based on fact that the homeowner has other properties in addition to the home at issue. I guess it would be prohibited or something to over lap any of the years of delinquency if this was done with small claims judgments and HOA probate lien only.
NigelB (Texas)
Posts: 254
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillH10 on 09/01/2015 8:48 AM
Regarding Tim's post above

"- Liens are cheap to file and take minimal documentation."

Not so in Texas. A lien which encumbers real property in Texas must be filed by an attorney. An association we manage recently requested the association attorney to file a lien. The charge for preparing the demand letter, preparing and filing the notice of lien, postage and costs, and the filing fee was $375.78. This is in addition to collection costs previously charged by the MC and the attorney of nearly $400.00 for the preparation of certified letters, postage, preparation of documents by the MC and the charge for referring the account to the attorney.

These charges have been added to the homeowner's account, taking a past due assessment balance of $387.00 to a balance in excess of $1,400.00 when interest and collection costs are added.

What is so silly about this is the property owner went down this same road three years ago, and paid about $700 to clear a two assessment past due balance of $242.00. It is especially silly on the part of the property owner as Texas law requires a delinquent property owner be offered a payment plan, which can spread a past due balance up to 18 months depending on the amount. The assessments for this association are $266.00 annually, which is nothing compared to the assessment costs for those of you with significant amenities and association provided exterior maintenance.

We just went through this and I'm still unsure exactly what is the best procedure. Sometimes you win, sometimes the assoication (and rest of the homneowners) end up eating it. We had a property in our community that had not paid assessments for two years. Management company charges, interest, and attorneys fees resulted in a charge of around $4000 to the owners account (assessments would have only been just over $1000 for the two years).

There was to be a short sale but that fell through and the bank foreclosed, so now the association is out around $2400 for the attorneys fees. The interest, delinquent assessments, and management charges are a wash.

I think that in the majority of cases, turning it over to the association attorney gets a result, but sometimes it does not as in this case.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
As I said, State laws vary.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Alabama is one of the few states that do have "Super liens". Which means that liens can be put at the same level of the bank. Which means that when money is being paid back the HOA is on equal footing of the bank giving it more of an advantage of being paid back. Otherwise it has to wait in line with all other creditors.

Foreclosures are a bit tricky. Basically, your doing the work of the bank if the HOA forecloses. The bank is always to get paid first and foremost. So when deciding to foreclose on the lien, take careful consideration of the situation. There is nothing wrong on leaving a lien on a home for a long time if the situation calls for it.

One can't foreclose for someone on active military duty. If the house is already in bank foreclosure, then leave the lien on. It's most likely going to be a wash but not having a lien is good business practice. The HOA will be next in line if there is money left over which is rare.

I avoid lawsuits in pursuit for many reasons. Liens collect interest, accumulate over time, includes legal costs of filing, and the person can not sell without paying. A lawsuit it doesn't accumulate, have to ask for legal costs to be reimbursed, and person can sell and not pay.

My recommendation: Always have a lien/foreclosure policy. Ours is 6 months behind we liened. 1 year behind we CONSIDERED foreclosing. Foreclosing had to make sense and be in the best interest. Otherwise we just kept the lien on until time to re-evaluate the situation.

Former HOA President
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/01/2015 6:34 PM
Alabama is one of the few states that do have "Super liens". Which means that liens can be put at the same level of the bank. Which means that when money is being paid back the HOA is on equal footing of the bank giving it more of an advantage of being paid back. Otherwise it has to wait in line with all other creditors.

Foreclosures are a bit tricky. Basically, your doing the work of the bank if the HOA forecloses. The bank is always to get paid first and foremost. So when deciding to foreclose on the lien, take careful consideration of the situation. There is nothing wrong on leaving a lien on a home for a long time if the situation calls for it.

Around 16 states have super-lien legislation.

The super-lien does not have equal status with mortgages as Melissa says. It has superior priority over the mortgage.

But depending on the state, the superior priority is for only for 6 to 12 months of fees.

Many mortgage companies were delaying foreclosures because they didn't have to start covering the HOA fees until the title transferred. And there's no cost for delay because the super-lien is locked in at the statutory number of months.

For a while, HOAs were foreclosing on the super-liens, and because they had superior priority over the first mortgage, some HOAs were able to eliminate the mortgage through the foreclosure. Mortgage companies have caught on that they could be eliminated and are now no longer ignoring HOA foreclosures. Results are likely to be a lot different in the future.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
AnnS11,

In other words: We don't know.

Advice: Ask the corporate attorney.

ValK2 (Tennessee)
Posts: 65
Posted:
We also consider the collateral damage from not persuing a delinquent home owner, even if we know collecting the past due monies...or at least filing the papers, might result in a break even or losing proposition. In essence, you need to consider the "Principle of the thing" as opposed to just the money decision, which doesn't always make economic sense at the time.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Exactly... You have to consider ALL the factors before deciding to proceed. Not all situations are equal. That is why we had the policy of: 6 months lien and 1 year CONSIDER foreclosure. Having such a policy in place allowed for us to weed out those situations. 6 months lien was basically at the "break even point" for collections costs. Plus it let us get an idea of why they were not paying. We could make payment arrangements for those with money struggles. We could educate those not aware they were in a HOA. Those who were doing it out of "Protest" got the hint we weren't playing. You have other ways of "fighting" your HOA by NOT paying dues.

Foreclosures are more serious. If the person is Active military, then could not foreclose. If the property is in bank foreclosure, we did not foreclose but left the lien in place. If the owner is "trouble" uncooperative, then foreclosure is brought into play. No one says you have to pursue foreclosure. Plus a foreclosure STOPS when the amount owed is paid.

I avoid lawsuits in this situation because the ability of owners to move without ever paying the judgement. It takes more effort and money to pursue a court judgement than a lien. I'd rather not have to pay a lawyer for every consultation, pursuit, and interactions in court if I can do that all in one sitting with a lien.

Former HOA President

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